Windows 10

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Apr 08, 2016 16:17

I'm not convinced that's a Win10 problem or a PC problem - it's a Remedy problem.

I mean, when the game doesn't have a way to quit to desktop (because the XBone menu didn't need such an option) you know that not much care has been put into it.

GazChap · **Posted:** Fri Apr 08, 2016 16:22

Anyone interested in my XFX ATI 7870 graphics card?

myp · **Posted:** Fri Apr 08, 2016 16:24

GazChap wrote:

Anyone interested in my XFX ATI 7870 graphics card?

Not in the Windows 10 thread, no.

GazChap · **Posted:** Fri Apr 08, 2016 16:51

D'oh, thought I was in PC hardware.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Grim... wrote:

I'm not convinced that's a Win10 problem or a PC problem - it's a Remedy problem.

I mean, when the game doesn't have a way to quit to desktop (because the XBone menu didn't need such an option) you know that not much care has been put into it.

They explicitly state that UWP is the root cause of many of the issues though.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Grim... wrote:

I'm not convinced that's a Win10 problem or a PC problem - it's a Remedy problem.

I mean, when the game doesn't have a way to quit to desktop (because the XBone menu didn't need such an option) you know that not much care has been put into it.

I think it is certainly (at least in part) a Microsoft problem.

Just three months ago MS were marketing it as Xbox One only, with no mention of a PC version. Perhaps the port did not have a lot of time to cook. Remedy's previous PC releases have been totally solid, although MS didn't have a hand in Max Payne or Alan Wake PC. They have always been a studio that has had a strong PC focus, even if they did do one game that was a timed Xbox exclusive. They're also a fairly small studio that has had very little staff turnover, it's doubtful to me that they'd suddenly forget how to do a good port.

Remedy certainly seem to imply that a combination of UWP, DX12 and MS as a publisher are the source of all the issues in this FAQ, one of the only things Remedy have said in response to the poor reception of the port.

Of course Remedy are somewhat to blame for signing the publishing rights to the PC version over to Microsoft, given Microsoft's track record with PC gaming.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

Grim... wrote:

I mean, when the game doesn't have a way to quit to desktop (because the XBone menu didn't need such an option) you know that not much care has been put into it.

I thought no UWP apps had an option to quit to desktop though.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

We are deploying at work, I have it all ready on an "Early Adopter" Image.

Have a meeting next week where I will find out just how they plan to get lots of people to test their apps on Windows 10 and give a shit

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Windows 10 seems to be fine * It's only installed on one computer in the house and I still have no intention of doing any upgrades on the Windows 7 machines we have (as that's where the issues tend to arise), but as a fresh install on a modern machine it's peachy enough.

I like the way the old Windows 7 menus/settings are generally only a click or two away behind the more simple Windows 10 menus, and one definite improvement is the new built-in backup, massively better than the old Windows Backup system.

It's similar enough that Hearthly Jnr is comfortable with it, I had to show her where a few things are but she's adapted with no problem.

I don't find it's quicker to boot up than the similarly specified PC Mrs Hearthly has but is running Windows 7 (both boot up from cold in a few seconds), and they seem to behave/perform very similarly overall too, just running different operating systems.

So yeah, overall, perfectly usable - although I wouldn't say 'better', just a 'bit different'.

* Windows 10 has established a foothold in our house as I bought a mini-ATX PC for Hearthly Jnr. (Her laptop was struggling with WoW and Minecraft, and whilst it refused to die the fans in the poor thing were properly howling, so I decided to retire it gracefully before it blew up.)

I was going to get a replacement laptop for her but a mate was selling a nearly-new PC he'd bought for his wife that had been effectively unused for four months, complete with a lovely 24 inch screen, high quality Razer keyboard and mouse, and headset, for £600 - so I went for that instead.

It's decent hardware, 256GB SSD, midrange i5, 16GB RAM, 2GB 750Ti (which is almost identical to the 960M I would have got in a laptop for her). The mini-ITX form factor is really small and the PC is almost completely silent, even under load. Very impressive little box of tricks.

If anyone still thinks PCs are big and/or noisy, seriously, check out the new mini-ITX builds, they're full-fat PCs in tiny little cases that hardly make a sound. (You can get a GTX970 in a half-length form-factor, so you don't need to sacrifice anything.)

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:40

Yeah 10 doesn't boot any quicker than 7. It's probably the same as 8, maybe a little slower.

I spent the best part of a week on Mrs JC's PC and tbh I actually preferred 8.1 If they ever release DX12 for 8.1 (doubt it, esp as they've used their excuse card by making 10 free) I would go back to 8.1. Especially as it's my lovely Alienware UEFI version so has lovely boot and shutdown screens and so on

Satsuma · **Joined:** 20th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14358

Re: Quantum Break

Grim... wrote:

I'm not convinced that's a Win10 problem or a PC problem - it's a Remedy problem.

I mean, when the game doesn't have a way to quit to desktop (because the XBone menu didn't need such an option) you know that not much care has been put into it.

I read that you quit to desktop by waving your mouse in the top right corner of the screen and a red X will appear like closing a window or a crappy Win 8 app. Still crap though. I'm waiting for a friend to give me his free PC key as he ordered the XBO version so I can have a looky look at it.

EDIT: Actually I'll probably need to log into the Windows Store and I wonder if that's tied to his XBO so I'll need his XBO log in deets. No idea, soon find out though.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Hmmm after initially being impressed by the Windows 10 File History style backup, I've finally had to give it up and go back to the Windows 7 backup. (Mrs Hearthly and Hearthly Jnr are on Windows 10 now.)

After checking and re-checking several times that it's not me fucking something up, it's now beyond doubt that it just randomly creates extra file history copies of files that haven't changed in any way whatsoever, or indeed even been accessed for months/years.

I noticed in particular that Mrs Hearthly's total backup size had grown to nearly 80GB from 46GB a few days ago, one Treesize later and I found folder after folder where it had created multiple copies of identical files for no reason. (Screenshot below shows where it's created duplicates of identical MP3s.)

A quick Google around suggests it's been fucked since MS introduced it in Windows 8 with no real solutions that I can see, (and many people describing the same behaviour), or at least, can be bothered to investigate when there's the perfectly serviceable and reliable Windows 7 backup behind the scenes in Windows 10 to use instead.

Attachment:

spunkbucket.JPG

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Upgraded Mrs Hearthly's PC to Windows 10 a couple of weeks ago, as Windows 7 has started to get a little bit 'mysteriously unreliable' when it comes to Windows Updates. (I've since resolved the Windows Update issues on other machines in the house, but thought I'd get Mrs Hearthly on Windows 10 as the 'safe haven' option, plus I also reckoned her machine would be the least likely to have issues, as it's a fairly new PC so all the hardware should be fine on Windows 10.)

Anyway, as with Hearthly Jnr's PC (which came with Windows 10), it works perfectly fine but once again whilst it's a bit different to Windows 7 I really wouldn't say it's any better - and it doesn't boot any quicker either, it isn't any faster in use, or anything like that. Maybe DX12 will give a boost to games in the future, but in the here and now its performance in games and benchmarks is identical to what Windows 7 turned in.

There's no way on earth I'm going to risk Win 10 on my own PC (old hardware, exotic sound card, appalling mish-mash of storage, etc), especially since my PC will have gone to the big ethical recycling centre in the sky long before Windows 7 goes out of support.

The way I see it is the best case scenario is your PC carries on working as it did before, but the OS looks a bit different. Worst case scenario is you have problems ranging from trivial to severe - so I honestly see no upside, especially if support past 2020 is a total non-issue for the machine in question. (Whereas I can envisage Mrs Hearthly and Hearthly Jnr's PCs still being in use past that date.)

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2016 12:00

Not sure if this has been covered yet.. If you are using Windows 7 or 8x and you update to 10 after 30 days Microsoft disable your old serial so you can only reinstall Windows 10.

Last week when one of my GPUs was loose and my PCIE SSD took a shit I desperately fumbled through my drawers (ooer) looking for the original 8.1 disc that was supplied with my Alienware. Any way I found it but when I tried to install Windows 8.1 it was asking me for a serial number. Hmm, strange, don't remember it doing that on day one (when I bought the machine it had no SSD in it so a reinstall was key). Any way, after a lot of digging around on Google I found out that on a Dell or Alienware the Windows key is hard fixed into the bios. You can't see it or view it in any way and as such you don't need it. So why the fuck was it asking for a serial number and not letting me install 8.1?

I'd had a few issues with 10 (I was stuck on a very early version that was a little buggy and obs no calculator !) and was quite happy to go back to 8.1. In the end out of sheer panic I downloaded a flat Windows 10 installer and guess what? straight on. No serial needed, nothing. Booted into Windows and quelle surprise ! Windows Activated.

Now I think that's pretty damn aggressive tbh. Not only that, but my lovely Alienware DVDs now make great fucking Frisbees. I asked about this on the Dell forum and they said that if I wanted to go back to 8.1 I would need a new motherboard pmsl. I mean in some ways it's good (because I was told before that every time I wanted to install 10 I would have to install 8.1 and then upgrade) but yeah, pretty mad stuff !

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

That seems like it should not be legal.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2016 20:32

LewieP wrote:

That seems like it should not be legal.

Why?

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5152

Are you sure that's true? After 30 days the rollback files are deleted from your hard drive to make space but I can't see any reference to the key that's stored in the BIOS being either removed or disabled by Microsoft.

Just a thought, but are you doing a clean install of 8.1 or 8, and which version did your PC come with!
If it had an 8 key in the BIOS and you use an 8.1 disk it I'll ask you for a key when you install as they aren't compatible at this point.
We have had this at work and we use any old 8.1 key to start the install, then once Windows has booted and it fails online activation, swap to the key that you can read from the BIOS and all is good.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2016 22:53

I've only got one Alienware 8.1 install disc. It only came with one and I used it on the first day the machine arrived last summer. It never asked for a serial because you don't get one it's hard set into your BIOS . MS have now disabled the serial for 8.1 and it now only works with Win 10. Honestly, I'm 100% certain I even phoned Dell.

It doesn't do it with retail versions as IIRC you can install those on any PC but it basically locks itself to all OEM computers. If I change my motherboard I'm fucked basically.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2016 22:57

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 9d5?auth=1

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

It seems Microsoft are finally bowing to all the pressure Hearthly's been pouring on them and will be disabling the Win10 upgrade nagging after July 29th.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/08/wind ... disappear/

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

It's just a question of perseverance. I've been speaking to Mr Nadella on a daily basis, and he's finally come round to my way of thinking.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 9:32

Bamba wrote:

It seems Microsoft are finally bowing to all the pressure Hearthly's been pouring on them and will be disabling the Win10 upgrade nagging after July 29th.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/08/wind ... disappear/

I heard that's when they were going to start charging you, is why.

[edit]Which I confirmed by reading the subtitle of the article.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

Well yes I thought that was understood? The free upgrade period was only ever intended to be a year, Microsoft stated this pretty much at the same time that they announced the ZOMG FREE UPGRADE.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

I am expecting the "free upgrade" offer will continue beyond the currently stated deadline, given how MS make more money off a typical W10 user than the do from a typical W7/8 user. It's obvious that they want people moving over, given how aggressively they've been pushing it.

They never said it would only be free for a year, they just said it would be free for a year.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5152

I expect they'll withdraw the free upgrades, then when takeup falls off a cliff, reintroduce it.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Dunno exactly how accurate this data is, but surely MS will be wanting to make the Win10 slice as big as possible.
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operatin ... share.aspx
Win7 is still massively dominating.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 10:18

Win 7 will be dominating, until they pull the plug for support.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 10:25

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

I expect they'll withdraw the free upgrades, then when takeup falls off a cliff, reintroduce it.

I'm not sure tbh. They did the "hey get Windows 8 for only £49.99 !" offer and never repeated that.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

KovacsC wrote:

Win 7 will be dominating, until they pull the plug for support.

Yeah, XP dominated market share long after Win7 came out.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

KovacsC wrote:

Win 7 will be dominating, until they pull the plug for support.

2020, then?

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 10:45

Hearthly wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

Win 7 will be dominating, until they pull the plug for support.

2020, then?

edit: It is out of support now. Extended support will be 2020

I would imagine folks moving off it in the next 12 months

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lif ... indows%207

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

I wonder if Windows Mobile will still be a thing by then.

myp · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:00

LewieP wrote:

I wonder if Windows Mobile will still be a thing by then.

Windows Mobile hasn't been a thing for four years now.

NervousPete · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:03

Adobe's pressuring of me to go the Creative Cloud rental route for Lightroom left a very sour taste in my mouth. Doubly so as in practice it means the release of lots of shoddy features essentially beta tested on users, leading to a very unstable program.

Because of this I take a very dim view of being nagged and pressured into things. I love Windows 7, it works for me and I figure on grimly holding on to it for as long as I possibly can. It's a relief that it appears Microsoft will stop finding ways to trick me into getting Windows 10 - something I may have gone for if there wasn't all the layers of skulking deceit surrounding it.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:09

NervousPete wrote:

Adobe's pressuring of me to go the Creative Cloud rental route for Lightroom left a very sour taste in my mouth. Doubly so as in practice it means the release of lots of shoddy features essentially beta tested on users, leading to a very unstable program.

Because of this I take a very dim view of being nagged and pressured into things. I love Windows 7, it works for me and I figure on grimly holding on to it for as long as I possibly can. It's a relief that it appears Microsoft will stop finding ways to trick me into getting Windows 10 - something I may have gone for if there wasn't all the layers of skulking deceit surrounding it.

What skulking deceit?

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:21

Microsoft definitely need to rethink a few things that's for sure. Its store is no place to play games and it's ridiculous how you can not even run a game in proper full screen mode (only borderless window full screen) and thus, is very hateful toward enthusiasts. It also has an always on Vsync, meaning Nvidia G-sync does not work (bitter pill after you paid a premium for it really). No multiple GPU support (well not properly, see also borderless window) and so on. A really poor start and it's a shame, because most of the games they are giving away free or selling are actually pretty decent, just completely marred by the store.

TBH I thought GFWL was bad but man, GFWL actually seems pretty slick compared to this awful store nonsense. I can't even find out how to install games where I want them and tbh? I don't think I even can.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Lonewolves wrote:

LewieP wrote:

I wonder if Windows Mobile will still be a thing by then.

Windows Mobile hasn't been a thing for four years now.

I guess I mean "I wonder if MS will still be pretending Windows Mobile is a thing".

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Hearthly · **Joined:** 11th May, 2008 **Posts:** 13382

KovacsC wrote:

NervousPete wrote:

Adobe's pressuring of me to go the Creative Cloud rental route for Lightroom left a very sour taste in my mouth. Doubly so as in practice it means the release of lots of shoddy features essentially beta tested on users, leading to a very unstable program.

Because of this I take a very dim view of being nagged and pressured into things. I love Windows 7, it works for me and I figure on grimly holding on to it for as long as I possibly can. It's a relief that it appears Microsoft will stop finding ways to trick me into getting Windows 10 - something I may have gone for if there wasn't all the layers of skulking deceit surrounding it.

What skulking deceit?

One random gripe from me earlier in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=876978#p876978

viewtopic.php?p=877013#p877013

----------

Quote:

Microsoft can fuck off with how aggressively they're trying to push Windows 10 onto PCs.

It did a completely unwanted background download of 3GB onto my daughter's laptop, which doesn't sound like much but it only has a 120GB SSD in it with less than 10GB of free space. (I had to use the disk cleanup tool to get that space back. Thanks!)

They've pushed out multiple 'Recommended' Windows 7 updates that have increasingly ramped up the 'in your face' aspect of the Windows 10 push, we've gone from an icon in the taskbar and the occasional small popup balloon, to a massive window slapbang in the middle of the screen with a big PRESS THIS BUTTON TO GET FREE WINDOWS 10 arrangement which makes an unwelcome appearance every time you turn a computer on.

They've also now replaced the normal Windows Update window with an UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 10 button, you have to click on a small 'Show other updates' link to get to the normal Windows updates, and this morning the only normal Windows Update being offered is 'Recommended' and looking into what it actually does (before installing it, because I don't trust Microsoft any more) is...... Install the Windows 10 app which apparently helps users to understand their Windows 10 upgrade options.

If any other software behaved like this you'd damn near call it malware.

The only PC I'm concerned about being properly infected with an upgrade to Windows 10 is Mrs Hearthly's PC, as she's got an Administrator account on there so it'll let her do it (she is under STRICT INSTRUCTION not to do this), all the other computers in the house Mrs Hearthly and Hearthly Jnr only have normal user accounts, and the upgrade to Windows 10 will fail if it's launched from a normal user account. (I know this because the bedroom media centre PC has about fifty eight million failed upgrade attempts logged on it, thanks to Hearthly Jnr.)

Obviously I have Administrator accounts on all the computers but unless Microsoft actually mind control me I won't be pressing the 'upgrade' button on any of them, but it's still annoying and it makes me want to stick with Windows 7 until it goes end of life in 2020 all the more.

myp · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:37

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Technically correct! SLAM DUNK

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

myp · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:40

LewieP wrote:

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

Tell that to my colleague who sits behind me.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:43

Hearthly wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

NervousPete wrote:

Adobe's pressuring of me to go the Creative Cloud rental route for Lightroom left a very sour taste in my mouth. Doubly so as in practice it means the release of lots of shoddy features essentially beta tested on users, leading to a very unstable program.

Because of this I take a very dim view of being nagged and pressured into things. I love Windows 7, it works for me and I figure on grimly holding on to it for as long as I possibly can. It's a relief that it appears Microsoft will stop finding ways to trick me into getting Windows 10 - something I may have gone for if there wasn't all the layers of skulking deceit surrounding it.

What skulking deceit?

One random gripe from me earlier in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=876978#p876978

viewtopic.php?p=877013#p877013

----------

Quote:

Microsoft can fuck off with how aggressively they're trying to push Windows 10 onto PCs.

It did a completely unwanted background download of 3GB onto my daughter's laptop, which doesn't sound like much but it only has a 120GB SSD in it with less than 10GB of free space. (I had to use the disk cleanup tool to get that space back. Thanks!)

They've pushed out multiple 'Recommended' Windows 7 updates that have increasingly ramped up the 'in your face' aspect of the Windows 10 push, we've gone from an icon in the taskbar and the occasional small popup balloon, to a massive window slapbang in the middle of the screen with a big PRESS THIS BUTTON TO GET FREE WINDOWS 10 arrangement which makes an unwelcome appearance every time you turn a computer on.

They've also now replaced the normal Windows Update window with an UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 10 button, you have to click on a small 'Show other updates' link to get to the normal Windows updates, and this morning the only normal Windows Update being offered is 'Recommended' and looking into what it actually does (before installing it, because I don't trust Microsoft any more) is...... Install the Windows 10 app which apparently helps users to understand their Windows 10 upgrade options.

If any other software behaved like this you'd damn near call it malware.

The only PC I'm concerned about being properly infected with an upgrade to Windows 10 is Mrs Hearthly's PC, as she's got an Administrator account on there so it'll let her do it (she is under STRICT INSTRUCTION not to do this), all the other computers in the house Mrs Hearthly and Hearthly Jnr only have normal user accounts, and the upgrade to Windows 10 will fail if it's launched from a normal user account. (I know this because the bedroom media centre PC has about fifty eight million failed upgrade attempts logged on it, thanks to Hearthly Jnr.)

Obviously I have Administrator accounts on all the computers but unless Microsoft actually mind control me I won't be pressing the 'upgrade' button on any of them, but it's still annoying and it makes me want to stick with Windows 7 until it goes end of life in 2020 all the more.

I disagree, you happy to support your opinion

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:44

Lonewolves wrote:

LewieP wrote:

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

Tell that to my colleague who sits behind me.

I have to use it...

myp · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:47

KovacsC wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

LewieP wrote:

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

Tell that to my colleague who sits behind me.

I have to use it...

Why?

KovacsC · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 11:52

Lonewolves wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

LewieP wrote:

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

Tell that to my colleague who sits behind me.

I have to use it...

Why?

My works phone is Windows

myp · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2016 12:00

KovacsC wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

Lonewolves wrote:

LewieP wrote:

Cras wrote:

I think he means that you actually mean Windows Phone.

Doesn't really matter does it, it's not like anyone is using it whatever it's called.

Tell that to my colleague who sits behind me.

I have to use it...

Why?

My works phone is Windows

Mine is Android.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

JohnCoffey wrote:

Microsoft definitely need to rethink a few things that's for sure. Its store is no place to play games and it's ridiculous how you can not even run a game in proper full screen mode (only borderless window full screen) and thus, is very hateful toward enthusiasts. It also has an always on Vsync, meaning Nvidia G-sync does not work (bitter pill after you paid a premium for it really). No multiple GPU support (well not properly, see also borderless window) and so on. A really poor start and it's a shame, because most of the games they are giving away free or selling are actually pretty decent, just completely marred by the store.

Shocking news: the Windows market of isn't just gamers. In fact, gamers are hardly any of it. This may help you understand Microsoft's relative priorities.

Windows 10 users: 300 m
Windows users: probably about 1.6 bn
Steam users: around 125 m
Gamers who don't have a Steam account: negligible

Gamers as a fraction of Windows users: about 8%

Also: Windows 10 (what we are discussing) and Windows Store / UWP (what you are complaining about) are only vaguely correlated, as we covered extensively earlier in this thread. This will be true as long as Windows 10 continues to run Win32 apps, which will be forever.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Gaming is an important component of Windows OSs, mind. There is a reason why MS have historically (ham-fistedly) attempted to use some aspect of gaming on Windows to push OS adoption, whether in the form of updated versions of DirectX being exclusive to newer versions of Windows, publishing a handful of games exclusive to the latest version of windows, or other gaming related features.

Yes it's a small portion of the Windows userbase as a whole, but it is a highly engaged portion of the userbase. People who are most invested into the ecosystem and who are typically fairly likely to be early adopters for Windows and related products and services.

Given that MS's current gaming push for Windows 10 adoption is centered around UWP stuff, it's entirely worth criticising it in that context. It is the focus of Microsoft's current efforts towards PC gaming, and it is currently not fit for purpose, by design.

I don't think UWP is entirely awful, but it's not currently suitable for what MS are using it for. I don't object to them using PC gaming to drive OS adoption, but they are currently doing so in such an incompetent manner that is is not a draw for me at all.

Regardless of how successful their efforts are currently, clearly Microsoft do think some kind of gaming initiative is critical to Windows. They didn't drop $2.5b on Mojang/Minecraft to help shift Xbox consoles.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32619

LewieP wrote:

Gaming is an important component of Windows OSs, mind.

It certainly matters more than the raw numbers suggest, but in terms of Microsoft's internal stack rank of priorities, do you imagine it's more important than (say) Word, or SQL Server, or Windows Server? I doubt it. Which is what the UWP gaming releases look like to me: half-baked stuff released by a team that wasn't given the time it needed to release something finished.

Quote:

Given that MS's current gaming push for Windows 10 adoption is centered around UWP stuff, it's entirely worth criticising it in that context. It is the focus of Microsoft's current efforts towards PC gaming, and it is currently not fit for purpose, by design.

But I suggest it's only tangentially related because you can take Win10 and never touch UWP, and indeed, that's what most people have done. And equally, there's nothing much compelling enough in Windows Store to encorage you upgrading to 10 if you were against it for some reason.

Quote:

Regardless of how successful their efforts are currently, clearly Microsoft do think some kind of gaming initiative is critical to Windows. They didn't drop $2.5b on Mojang/Minecraft to help shift Xbox consoles.

I suspect this is about education and owning a product that has an incredibly engaged user base of young kids exposed to something with a Microsoft logo that isn't hopelessly unhip, more than being about games per se.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Windows 10
So who was brave enough??

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

Windows 10 So who was brave enough??

Who is online

Windows 10
So who was brave enough??