You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.
It’s ok though because they’re cool.
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| Taking the Brexit https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479 |
Page 62 of 131 |
| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why. It’s ok though because they’re cool.
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why. It’s ok though because they’re cool. It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
And I’m fairly sure that Cras, much like the rest of us, would like other businesses to pay tax as well. Criticising Dyson for his stance is not the same as supporting tax avoidance elsewhere. You can think he’s a dick and that Jeff Bezos is also a dick. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cras wrote: Cavey wrote: You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why. It’s ok though because they’re cool. It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others. Well if it’s not ok then we agree. Look, I don’t give a fig about what you think you know about James Dyson and/or whether you think he’s a “cunt”. The germane point is that, as a UK based manufacturer, wealth creator, employer of thousands of skilled people in productive, actually useful manufacturing jobs that our Labour legacy bank-skewed economy desperately needs, you can be rest assured that whatever avoidance measures he’s taken, he’s STILL paying a fuckton more Corporation Tax per capita than the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon - in which case his point *stands*, whether you like that or not! |
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| Author: | Squirt [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Squirt wrote: Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates. I believe the EU has a 'floor rate' same as for VAT. We're nowhere near it though |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates. The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod. |
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| Author: | myp [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod. Roughly translated: be careful what you wish for. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates. The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden. You've made that up to the extent that I'm fairly sure you've invented words. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Be careful for wishing for a vaguely fair and level playing field, where the big boys have to pay the same rates as tax as the minnows? Doesn't strike me as too much of a Utopian dream, nor too much to wish for, but hey, what do I know. 
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
I do like the sound of "Cavey Inc" though. 
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cavey wrote: I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod. I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot. I recall you saying you can’t sell the business so come retirement you’ll liquidate and get the rest out at CGT of 20% (maybe even 10%). That’s a marginal tax rate of 35% on that balance, lower if you get Entrepreneurs relief (but that building cash balance will jeopardise that as your accountant has warned you). Sub parte F equivalent if CT was scrapped would be 47% tax on every penny of profits, extracted or not, every year. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot. That's some nice tax avoidance compared to the ~40% one would pay under PAYE.
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Sounds awesome, kerching. Thanks Apod. 
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal. It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it. Parliament won't be able to say no to even a ropey deal if the alternative is grounded flights and cancelled chemotherapy. So whatever ropey deal he can assemble can be forever stamped with Parliamentary approval, ensuring he can spread around the blame for the inevitable downsides. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
My god, all this reclaimed control is making us giddy. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Yeah, but at least we get to keep planes, right? P-H-E-W. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Car companies are giving oral evidence to Parliament today. Here's Ford's written version, which is relentlessly negative about basically everything: http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... /71680.pdf Honda are equally downbeat: https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 3424390145
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| Author: | romanista [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 15:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
https://twitter.com/RobertsDan/status/9 ... 0297897985
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| Author: | Squirt [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
romanista wrote: not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny Is it meant to be, or has it just descended into farce and bathos as they try to provide analysis? |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
My father was an automotive component engineer. I can easily believe the industry's just-in-time supply lines are now that intricate and that fragile. Just as laissez-faire economics demand, all fat has been trimmed from the system -- but fat reserves are what you fall back on to survive in lean times. If you've engineered out every single part of your supply chain to remove stock warehousing you're gonna have a bad time when stuff goes wrong. |
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| Author: | Squirt [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
From what I've heard, an hour of stock is probably just the stuff in a single lorry that's being unloaded directly into the assembly line. |
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| Author: | markg [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
markg wrote: So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts. Not unlikely; in my experience. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
markg wrote: So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts. There'll be just enough slack built in to the system to tolerate routine incidents like that, but probably not an ounce more. Automotive companies invented lean manufacturing and they're very good at it. |
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| Author: | BikNorton [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Send the lorries on different roads, innit. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 23:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal. It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it. "Getting away with it" status looking doubtful. Oh, and the Telegraph is now straying very close to Daily Mail "Enemies of the People" territory. |
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| Author: | myp [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
The government can say "OK, lads, it was all top bantz" and undo it and everything back to normal. Except the cluster fuck that was the past 18 months. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
The choice of photos and headline on that 'Telegraph' front page feels very counter-productive, almost as if they want us to celebrate them. If we're supposed to fear them, any half-decent photo editor would know where bad or sinister photos of each person pictured would be found, or could easily sketch some devil horns on to each of them. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Lonewolves wrote: They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay. No-one knows if we can unilaterally withdraw our A50 notification and just stay in. Lots of people think so. The thinking here from Davis, apparently, is that if we don't set the date we're leaving and Parliament votes to reject the final deal, we end up not leaving at all. So he wants to set the date now so if Parliament rejects the deal we cliff-edge out instead. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94: I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
MaliA wrote: Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is. Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education. |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Kern wrote: Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94: I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today. My MP is! (Stephen Hammond.) |
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
How is Ken Clarke not there? |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Cras wrote: How is Ken Clarke not there? He is. Bottom row, second from left. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
So he is. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Curiosity wrote: MaliA wrote: Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is. Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education. Agree. |
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| Author: | markg [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Would she be as awful as Theresa May, though? |
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| Author: | Kern [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear. |
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| Author: | Curiosity [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Kern wrote: Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear. I like that he said that we should look to a Europe of cooperation, where we work towards a common goal of mutual prosperity. And the very first question he got from journalists was, “So why are you leaving then?” |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Seen on Twitter: "Continuing with Brexit in the face of the evidence is like if you booked a trip to Dignitas after being diagnosed with a terminal illness, then discovered there's a cure but you're still going to Switzerland so you don't have to deal with Ryanair's customer service." |
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| Author: | Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 21:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
DExEU, April: Quote: But a spokeswoman for the Brexit department said in a statement: “No decisions have been taken about the location of the European Banking Authority or the European Medicines Agency, these will be subject to the exit negotiations.” “As part of these negotiations the government will discuss with the EU and member states how best to continue cooperation in the fields of banking and medicines regulation in the best interests of both the UK and the EU.” Today: Quote: London is losing the European Medicines Agency to Amsterdam and the European Banking Authority to Paris, in one of the first concrete signs of Brexit as the UK prepares to leave the European Union. Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams. Sources: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3348057/t ... t-insists/ https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Despite all the bluster, thete's very little activity, which suggests there isn't the will in Parliament to do this. I think the UK'll take a few more hits like the 2 agencies leaving, then not leave, and Cras would be right all along. |
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| Author: | Squirt [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Doctor Glyndwr wrote: Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams. Do you think they ever really thought there was a legitimate chance of the EBA / EMA staying in the UK? Surely no one in the DExEU genuinely believed that this was something that could be decided in the negotiations. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Taking the Brexit |
Definitely not. Oh. |
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