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Taking the Brexit
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479
Page 62 of 131

Author:  myp [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Innovative.

His products suck anyway.

Author:  Cras [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

*flat stare*

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
James Dyson on Andrew Marr this morning:

Walk away from negotiations
Don't pay anything towards outstanding obligations
Scrap corporation tax
Make it easier to fire people

What a cunt.


I've just been told my corporation tax bill is £100,000 in April. Mr Suction might be onto something ;)
Still, I'm sure this six figure sum will be magnificently efficiently managed and well spent.

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

MaliA wrote:
On this, I felt a twinge of sympathy for Brown this morning as he was being interviewed and had malicious quotes read to him from books by Blair and Lord Mandelson. Turns out (at risk of poking the bear through the bars <wink>), he wanted tighter regulation of the city, but was shouted down.

Author:  myp [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
Cras wrote:
James Dyson on Andrew Marr this morning:

Walk away from negotiations
Don't pay anything towards outstanding obligations
Scrap corporation tax
Make it easier to fire people

What a cunt.


I've just been told my corporation tax bill is £100,000 in April. Mr Suction might be onto something ;)
Still, I'm sure this six figure sum will be magnificently efficiently managed and well spent.

They'll have a good Lord Mayor's Banquet this year.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I find it entertaining that Dyson was one of the loudest business voices calling for the UK to join the euro when it was launched. I look forward to him pleading for us to rejoin Europe in 15 years time.

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

:D

Yeah because hey, Brown really wanted to put the City back on a short leash in all those Mansion House speeches that he made in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. Oh no.

I mean seriously, who exactly is the deluded old idiot thinking he's trying to kid? Does he think we none of us can remember as far back as 10 years, nor that his (lamentably, interminably boring, as well as laughably ill-informed and ultimately catastrophic) speeches have not beEN transcribed, so we can, even now, revisit them and inverse-marvel at all their misinformed 'glory'?

The unbelievable brass neck.

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 14:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Lonewolves wrote:
They'll have a good Lord Mayor's Banquet this year.

I reckon we should gate crash it Myp :D

Author:  MrChris [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
James Dyson on Andrew Marr this morning:

Walk away from negotiations
Don't pay anything towards outstanding obligations
Scrap corporation tax
Make it easier to fire people

What a cunt.

I couldn’t possibly comment.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I find it entertaining that Dyson was one of the loudest business voices calling for the UK to join the euro when it was launched. I look forward to him pleading for us to rejoin Europe in 15 years time.

I didn't know this.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... rbusiness4

Quote:
Vacuum cleaner king James Dyson, the high-profile inventor and businessman, is set to reignite the debate surrounding the euro after threatening to expand his operations in Malaysia, rather than at his British factory, if the UK does not join the single currency.

Dyson, who devised the bagless vacuum cleaner, sparked a national debate earlier this year after complaining that the strong pound could force his company to move overseas. This time, however, his comments carry extra weight. Since he made his now famous remarks, Dyson has opened a small factory in Malaysia in a bid to offset both the impact of the pound and planning problems over enlarging his UK factory in Wiltshire.

The Malaysian plant is now used to make products for the Far Eastern markets, chiefly Japan. But Dyson is considering increasing its capacity in the longer term if the UK government's attitude to the single currency doesn't change.

'It's suicidal for the UK not to join the euro. Why should we go on exporting at a loss? We're facing unfair competition,' he said.


What a dick.

Author:  DavPaz [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Did he follow through with his threat?

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Actually, not sure I can say that.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Yes, 800 jobs were lost: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2752 ... -East.html

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Heh. Thanks for reminding me of the ONE thing we can thank Gordon Brown for: keeping us out of the catastrophic Euro, as against the “better judgement” of his knife-wielding “colleagues” in that back-biting pit of vipers that was the New Labour ‘sofa government’ of the late 90s and early 2000s.

I suppose a busted clock reads the right time fleetingly and eventually.

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 22:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?

Author:  Squirt [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Yeah, for all that Dyson still does employ 3000+ people in the UK, as far as I can tell, and does invest a lot in the training and education of engineers. And while I don't agree with his politics in many situations, it's not like he's bribing Saudi princes or anything.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

He did offshore company ownership to Malta for a number of years to avoid paying UK tax. 2009-2013 IIRC.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

And he wants to eliminate corporation tax. He doesn't think companies should pay anything into the treasury.

Author:  Squirt [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Although, a scheme where corrupt Princes from wealthy petro-states were bribed using a complex series of slush funds, Swiss bank accounts and "consultancy payments" in order to persuade them to fit out their armed services with a certain brand of hand dryer in the toilets would make an splendidly ridiculous back story to a spy thriller.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!

Author:  devilman [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 14:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!


They should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirr.. oh wait.

Author:  Squirt [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 15:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!
.
Don't be daft! Cavey clearly differentiates between tax-paying vampires, who are useful and valuable members of society, and tax-avoiding vampires, who are not.

Author:  DavPaz [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 15:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

devilman wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!


They should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirr.. oh wait.

Bravo!

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... itain-down

An investment advisor has advised his clients to pull funds from the UK in favour of "looking further afield" because Britain's economy is weak. More talking Britain down nonsense from this remoaner banker who is called ::checks notes:: hardcore Bexiteer John Redwood MP.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Squirt wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!
.
Don't be daft! Cavey clearly differentiates between tax-paying vampires, who are useful and valuable members of society, and tax-avoiding vampires, who are not.


Vampires are okay; it’s only Bankers I can’t stand. ;)

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I love how a guy who’s employed thousands of U.K. people in actual meaningful, useful, productive employment, and has set up first class engineering academies etc. is a Beex hate figure, because among other things he has the audacity to rail against paying punitive Corporation Tax where others get off Scot free by shaking hands with the Isle of Man government or whatever. I mean how very dare he etc., and yet you all moan about losing bloody *bankers* because of Brexit. Priceless, totally figures I guess. :D

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
Cavey wrote:
As for James Dyson, I don’t know much about him but IIRC he pays a lot more UK tax than a google, he’s set up UK Engineering training facilities and academies, he’s created a lot of wealth for U.K. plc even if I don’t agree with his Brexit views. So let’s just say he’s likely rather more useful than bankers or tax avoiding vampires?


Wait... vampires are real?

And they don’t even pay tax!


Yes, paying tax.... not expecting vast bailouts off the backs of working people, their children and their grandchildren.... such a quaint notion!

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I'm confused that in the same breath you appear to be lauding Dyson for railing against 'punitive' corporation tax rates but lambasting 'vampires' who aren't paying their fair share in tax.
UK corporation tax rates are below the global average.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

You seriously don’t get the fundamental disconnect between U.K. businesses being expected to pay millions and billions in Corporation Tax, in part to pay for the social and actual physical infrastructure enabling the likes of Amazon, Google, banks etc to print money off all our backs, and put next to nothing back in? Wow.

I imagine he’s asking himself the same question I am: why?

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Well as i mentioned before, he didn't use to. Everything was registered in Malta specifically to avoid tax. And he's said it should be abolished, so he doesn't want to put anything back in.

And the why is to pay for public services, the things that a nation needs in order to support a business like Dyson's and indeed yours, and indeed Google or Amazon. I have no sympathy for a profit making business in the UK, with its perfectly reasonable corporation tax rate, not wanting to pay their fair share.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:


It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others.

Author:  Curiosity [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

And I’m fairly sure that Cras, much like the rest of us, would like other businesses to pay tax as well. Criticising Dyson for his stance is not the same as supporting tax avoidance elsewhere. You can think he’s a dick and that Jeff Bezos is also a dick.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

:this:

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
Cavey wrote:
You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:


It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others.


Well if it’s not ok then we agree.
Look, I don’t give a fig about what you think you know about James Dyson and/or whether you think he’s a “cunt”. The germane point is that, as a UK based manufacturer, wealth creator, employer of thousands of skilled people in productive, actually useful manufacturing jobs that our Labour legacy bank-skewed economy desperately needs, you can be rest assured that whatever avoidance measures he’s taken, he’s STILL paying a fuckton more Corporation Tax per capita than the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon - in which case his point *stands*, whether you like that or not!

Author:  Squirt [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Squirt wrote:
Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates.


I believe the EU has a 'floor rate' same as for VAT. We're nowhere near it though

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates.

The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

Author:  myp [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

Roughly translated: be careful what you wish for.

Author:  Cras [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates.

The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden.


You've made that up to the extent that I'm fairly sure you've invented words.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Be careful for wishing for a vaguely fair and level playing field, where the big boys have to pay the same rates as tax as the minnows?
Doesn't strike me as too much of a Utopian dream, nor too much to wish for, but hey, what do I know. ;)

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I do like the sound of "Cavey Inc" though. :D

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cavey wrote:
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.

I recall you saying you can’t sell the business so come retirement you’ll liquidate and get the rest out at CGT of 20% (maybe even 10%). That’s a marginal tax rate of 35% on that balance, lower if you get Entrepreneurs relief (but that building cash balance will jeopardise that as your accountant has warned you).

Sub parte F equivalent if CT was scrapped would be 47% tax on every penny of profits, extracted or not, every year.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.
That's some nice tax avoidance compared to the ~40% one would pay under PAYE.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Sounds awesome, kerching. Thanks Apod. :)

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal.

It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it. Parliament won't be able to say no to even a ropey deal if the alternative is grounded flights and cancelled chemotherapy. So whatever ropey deal he can assemble can be forever stamped with Parliamentary approval, ensuring he can spread around the blame for the inevitable downsides.

Author:  Kern [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

My god, all this reclaimed control is making us giddy.

Author:  Cavey [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Yeah, but at least we get to keep planes, right?
P-H-E-W.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Car companies are giving oral evidence to Parliament today.

Here's Ford's written version, which is relentlessly negative about basically everything:
http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... /71680.pdf

Honda are equally downbeat: https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 3424390145

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