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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:08 
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I think I might have to start reading the Daily Mail and the Express just to remind myself that this is a good idea and things are going brilliantly.

What I find so frustrating is that, as was once said about the poll tax, it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid. At some point the mainstream public (ie - those who were quite happy living their lives without caring about the EU or tariffs or EFTA or Jean-Claude Juncker) will start to suffer and turn against the incumbents. But it takes time, and probably requires a capable opposition leader to channel their discontent.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:43 
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Not sure why you feel a reasonable alternative is required for people to vote against something - given the topic of this thread! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:50 
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Oh, yes. I forgot Mr Corbyn won the election. ;)

I'm not convinced he'd want to back out of this. I can understand why Sir Keir is currently charmingly ambivalent, doing enough to keep the remainers on side without pushing around Labour voters who opted for leave, but I don't think the leader is displaying anything other than his deeply held political beliefs.

What I want to avoid is a whole 'stabbed in the back' myth developing. People should feel that the decision to end this nonsense comes from them, rather than the 'slimy European elites'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 13:28 
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Fun (YMMV) stuff on Twitter today regarding the Parliament Act. The Parliament Act allows the government to force through a bill after it has been rejected twice by the lords in two separate sessions. Normally this means a year's delay, as a session of parliament is a year. However, after the election, May extended the current session to two years to avoid there being a vote on the Queen's speech, so if they want to use the parliament act to force through a withdrawal bill rejected by the Lords, it'll take two years instead of just one.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:10 
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Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts.

The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:23 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
Ah, the joys of our constitution! That's made me realise that I've always interpreted 'session' as 'year' when thinking about the Parliament Acts.

The downside is that if the bill doesn't pass and the EU don't agree to extra time we'll be even more fucked in 2019 than we currently will be.


Currently, we're just dropping into the abyss, aren't we? No 'transition phase' has been agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:29 
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For avoidance of doubt, I think the bill is a dog's breakfast of poorly thought through ideas and shows an utter disdain for the role of Parliament. It's important, however, for a reception statute of some form to exist, otherwise we're opening up a whole can of legal worms as nobody would know which rules apply and which don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 14:36 
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Sleepyhead

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I thought Ministers could just make up their own laws now anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 20:54 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:01 
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SAVE OUR PLANES 2019

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Kern wrote:
it appears that so many otherwise intelligent people seem hell-bent on advocating something ridiculously stupid.


Ain't that the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:09 
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It always feels like we're going round in circles in this thread, and I really can't be arsed to check if I'm repeating myself (or just paraphrasing Ian Dunt or the New European or Richard Gaywood), but I keep on thinking that had Mrs May said on the steps of Downing Street something along the lines of 'we're going to leave the political part of the EU, but given the tightness of the result we're going to work with other parties and our European colleagues seek a settlement that captures a lot of what both sides want then put it to the public for ratification', I probably could have got behind that.

But she didn't, and won't, and it's all a shitstorm and I just want to go back to reading about railway trains and the American Civil War and stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 17:21 
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Here's an interesting report on the conclusions reached by a panel of ordinary people at an intensive deliberation event held by UCL's Constitution Unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 20:21 
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I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:08 
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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england

That was a hard thing to read. So much truth


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 21:11 
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He really nailed the thing that bothers me most about us: The superiority complex.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 23:58 
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Thanks

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romanista wrote:
I still love you guys. But i get joris’ point http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz ... he-england


That's a very good piece, thanks for the link :)

I'd send it to my Brexit supporting/voting in-laws and dad, but it wouldn't change their mind one jot. I've given up arguing with them about it. They wouldn't even read it. And then they'd buy the Telegraph/Mail next day, just as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 23:06 
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You're welcome. I was actually kind of scared to post it. Even though i regard you guys as my friends. And have been indulging british culture for at least 25 years, i honestly don't know how brexit moves you deep inside... Compared to Brexit, even the Italians ar simple (having lived there for quite some time)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 
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You're welcome to come and invade us again. Worked out quite well in the late 17th century.

I've subscribed to 'Prospect' for several years and each edition takes about a month to read through its thought-provoking articles. That particular one, however, feels like something I'd read many times from the comment pages of the 'Guardian' or the 'New Statesman'. I note the author himself admits his debt to Orwell's 'Lion and the Unicorn' essay which is probably the best starting point for any discussion of Englishness (and I think this is an English, not British, issue).

Brexit is a shitstorm and has revealed the rather nasty subsoil underneath our modern, open, and tolerant gloss. But for all our faults (class; unbalanced wealth structure; povery; Pacer trains), there's a lot of good things that are worth celebrating (eg the NHS; the BBC; beer; the great outdoors).


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:18 
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and Kern.

But he probably thinks he's Cornish


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 
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Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:04 
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SAVE OUR PLANES 2019

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I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.


You like Pacer trains?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:09 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
Listening to Hillary Benn on the radio this morning made me wonder if the ultimate result of Brexit will be to achieve what many thought was impossible and make the British love the European Union. Life, after all, was so much easier when we could mock it without worrying about what it did.


Yes. I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 
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SAVE OUR PLANES 2019

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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
I was with you up until the Pacer trains bit. Some things are just best left unsaid, man.


You like Pacer trains?


Some things are just too ghastly to contemplate or discuss in polite company. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:15 
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But to be serious, I very much doubt large swathes of the British public are ever going to "love" the EU, especially now more than ever. It's about to get very messy.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 
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Yeah, if anything it'll just get even worse. The Tories are inevitably going to blame them for being unreasonable and spiteful in the negotiations and every bad thing that happens will be cast by their tabloids as being the fault of the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 
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... and then the murders began.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:25 
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It's all about damage reduction now.

The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:27 
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Zardoz wrote:
It's all about damage reduction now.

The glimmer of hope for the future is that a large percent of the Brexit Belmers will be dying out soon making way for our hopefully more rational youth.


Who like Corbyn.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 
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Lord Humongous

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Me not like Corbyn as much now.

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