Be Excellent To Each Other
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

Taking the Brexit
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10479
Page 50 of 131

Author:  myp [ Sat Aug 05, 2017 13:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Yikes

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 20:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Just finished 'How to lose a referendum' by Jason Farrell and Paul Goldsmith.

I've read Craig Oliver's 'Unleashing Demons' and Tim Shipman's page-turner, 'All out war', both of which centre on the campaign and the immediate past. This book is the first one I've read that attempts to analyse how we got to where we are. It starts all the way back in 1945 and progresses through missed opportunities, poor leadership, and not really selling the idea of Europe to Britain for 70 years to imply an inevitability about the outcome. Much to think and argue about, and recommended once you've read Tim Shipman's book.

Author:  GazChap [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
I disagree. I think she would have warned David Cameron of the risks involved in rushing ahead with something just to get your most cibrushsille critics off your back.

BeExFeex.

Author:  asfish [ Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

TheVision wrote:
A blue passport! Imagine the look on your kids faces when they see how blue they will be?

Can't wait.



Just renewed mine and have a 10 year EU one back, I wonder if I will have to send it in when we leave for a replacement ?

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I would have been more convinced of tje planning ahead of tje government, this morning, if, when questioned on details of how the the Eire/NI border would work, James Brokenshire had just replied "Wizards. We will do it with wizards".

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I cringed watching the news last night when I heard the dreaded term, 'technological solutions'. Was the R4 interview as bad?

As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.

And the EU will sign up to this because reasons / stop talking Britain down / BMW is the tail that will wag the entire EU's dog because they have to sell us cars.

Depressing summary -> http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08 ... -dog-s-bre

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Ah, Ian Dunt. I enjoyed his book on it. Well, the same way I enjoyed Stephen King's 'Pet Cemetery' when I was 14.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BMW is the tail that will wag the entire EU's dog because they have to sell us cars.


Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

So how many did you buy? Two? Three? Brexit demands all patriotic Brits to buy BMWs so the EU won't fuck us over.

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

So how many did you buy? Two? Three? Brexit demands all patriotic Brits to buy BMWs so the EU won't fuck us over.


Company cars here now jags not bmw

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.

And the EU will sign up to this because reasons / stop talking Britain down / BMW is the tail that will wag the entire EU's dog because they have to sell us cars.

Depressing summary -> http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08 ... -dog-s-bre


Wizards

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
I cringed watching the news last night when I heard the dreaded term, 'technological solutions'. Was the R4 interview as bad?

As far as I can tell, the current plan is to have our own customs system that's 100% devised for British needs but, by an amazing coincidence, is just the same as what we've got now, apart from being able to make the rules.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4094709 ... ws_central

Author:  myp [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
Since 23 June 2016, I've not bought one BMW.

So how many did you buy? Two? Three? Brexit demands all patriotic Brits to buy BMWs so the EU won't fuck us over.

I bought a 15 year old Merc if that helps at all

Author:  Cras [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I saw a tweet from Brian Cox saying something along the lines of "I have a facial expression reserved for people who think the earth is flat. I was wearing that expression while reading the government paper on the future of the customs union"

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

The paper doesn't look good from reading a few summaries. I shall read the actual thing in due course.

From what I gather, the best case scenario is frictionless @ the customs side because we will have a certified equivalent standard to the EU?

So that's us having to adhere to all EU guidelines but without any input into them whatsoever?

Is that what others have taken away from it? Please correct if wrong.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Curiosity wrote:
The paper doesn't look good from reading a few summaries. I shall read the actual thing in due course.

From what I gather, the best case scenario is frictionless @ the customs side because we will have a certified equivalent standard to the EU?

So that's us having to adhere to all EU guidelines but without any input into them whatsoever?

Is that what others have taken away from it? Please correct if wrong.


"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.

Author:  Bobbyaro [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

isn't it a type of dog?

Author:  Zardoz [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Irish Border marks out Irish Border:


Author:  Cras [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.


Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

Author:  myp [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
Kern wrote:
Cras wrote:
"We'll have a hard border with Ireland, but we just won't put any border guards or customs officers there, and people will behave because magic"


In years to come this will be known as an 'Irish border'. As in, 'Jeff's threat to that bloke was just an Irish Border' or 'we didn't want to interrupt the flow of the lawn as it meets the patio so fitted an Irish Border'.


Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

:D

Author:  Mimi [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
I saw a tweet from Brian Cox saying something along the lines of "I have a facial expression reserved for people who think the earth is flat. I was wearing that expression while reading the government paper on the future of the customs union"


Bull. Brian Cox has got literally one facial expression.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I've just realised that when the customs talks fail, the government will spin it as 'bonkers Eurocrats want to stop your booze cruise' rather than, say, a complete and utter failure of policy planning or negotiation.

Author:  Squirt [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I think that may well have been the plan all along. No planning or preparation, and point finger at EU when everything goes to hell.

Author:  markg [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I think that's giving too much credit. The only plan they had was that the referendum was going to go the other way. The only plan they have had ever since can be summed up as "oh shit".

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Remember kids: if you spend 40 years opposing something, be sure to have a plan ready when you get your victory.

Author:  Curiosity [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Remember kids: if you spend 40 years opposing something, be sure to have a plan ready when you get your victory.


It's a longer term version of the Republicans and the ACA.

Author:  Hearthly [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:


That really is scary.

If Davis and Boris and friends were in charge of, say, organising your wedding, and at this stage of proceedings you asked them how the plans were going, and the answer to everything was 'Mali's Wizards', you'd immediately sack them and never let them be in charge of anything ever again.

Then you'd cancel the wedding because you never loved the person that much anyway and had realised the whole thing was a horrible mistake.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Hearthly wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:


That really is scary.

If Davis and Boris and friends were in charge of, say, organising your wedding, and at this stage of proceedings you asked them how the plans were going, and the answer to everything was 'Mali's Wizards', you'd immediately sack them and never let them be in charge of anything ever again.

Then you'd cancel the wedding because you never loved the person that much anyway and had realised the whole thing was a horrible mistake.


She was 52% into me! No going back!

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 13:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Cras wrote:
Pretty sure it will come to be known as a Gazchap border.

:DD

Author:  romanista [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 18:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Upside down, inside outside and whole lot more... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08 ... rd-border/

Author:  Hearthly [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Another good piece by that Ian Dunt chap. I shall be keeping an eye on his work.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/08 ... -own-delus

Quote:
What's fascinating about this proposal is that it throws into stark relief one of the core choices Britain has to make when it comes to Brexit. Is it going to apply European standards or American ones? They have dodged this question throughout the last year, but here we see them finally being forced to confront it. If we sign up to European standards on food, chemical safety, digital rights, pharmaceuticals and the rest, we're of little use to the US. If we don't, we will have completely disconnected ourselves from our largest trading partner. The cake-and-eat-it theory is finally meeting the cold light of reality.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

David Davis begs the EU to do the thing they categorically said they wouldn't do.

Such a strong negotiating position we're in here, Barnier must be absolutely shitting himself.

THE FRENCH WILL STILL WANT TO SELL US CHEESE IT'S IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS WE'VE GOT THEM OVER A BARREL BOYS.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -same-time

Author:  devilman [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Removing all trade tariffs and barriers would help generate an annual £135bn uplift to the UK economy, according to a group of pro-Brexit economists.

I'm certainly no expert on this, but reading through the article, I'm inclined to agree with the 'economic suicide' description of the plan.

Author:  Cras [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I don't believe there's a nation on Earth that is offering or would sign a barrier-free trade deal. So that's a pretty redundant position to hold.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Aug 20, 2017 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

I think we should hold out for the 'every other country on earth just gives us all their money' Brexit deal, anything else and they can go whistle, frankly.

The Germans will still want to sell us BMWs, you see. Which we will buy with the money they've given us.

Author:  Kern [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Home Office in 'not fit for purpose' shock.

Guardian: Home Office apologises for letters threatening to deport EU nationals

I'm also pretty disgusted by this.

Author:  MaliA [ Fri Aug 25, 2017 13:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
I've just realised that when the customs talks fail, the government will spin it as 'bonkers Eurocrats want to stop your booze cruise' rather than, say, a complete and utter failure of policy planning or negotiation.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4316796/d ... st-eu/amp/

Quote:
DAVID Davis is preparing to attack Brussels negotiators for being “stubborn and unreasonable” in a bid to create a split between them and EU.
The Brexit Secretary’s broadside is being drawn up after senior British officials revealed they expect a third round of face to face EU exit talks in the Belgian capital next week to again end in bitter stand-off

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

A satisfyingly unambiguous statement on Brexit by Labour, which now gives us a clear choice between the Tories' plan which appears to be to blow everything up in an economic clusterfuck of biblical proportions, or a Labour policy that gives us a reasonable chance of surviving the Brexit process with the economy intact.

Keir Starmer could prove to be a great electoral asset for Labour, I think. The smart money would be on letting him be Labour's face of Brexit, and leave Corbyn to do the campaigning he's so good at.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017 ... ost-brexit

Author:  Cavey [ Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Hearthly wrote:
A satisfyingly unambiguous statement on Brexit by Labour, which now gives us a clear choice between the Tories' plan which appears to be to blow everything up in an economic clusterfuck of biblical proportions, or a Labour policy that gives us a reasonable chance of surviving the Brexit process with the economy intact.

Keir Starmer could prove to be a great electoral asset for Labour, I think. The smart money would be on letting him be Labour's face of Brexit, and leave Corbyn to do the campaigning he's so good at.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017 ... ost-brexit


Ironically I'm in Rome (outside the Pantheon of all places.... much awesomeness) but I genuinely LOLed :D

Author:  Kern [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

BBC: UK 'must not allow itself to be blackmailed', according to TV's Famously Disgraced Minister Dr Liam Fox.

Forgive me for talking the country down, but I don't think we hold the upper hand in these negotiations. Made worse given it appears we started the whole process before deciding what we wanted out of it all.

It's also annoying that because I'm not the target audience for these comments (not being a hardline Brexiteer on the Tory backbenches or tabloid editor), it comes across as extremely embarrassing for all concerned. Just as well we have a decent opposition and a leader calling them out on all this.

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

.

Author:  Kern [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 22:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Has nobody assessed if the NHS could cope with a sudden influx of retirees from Spain?

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Fri Sep 01, 2017 23:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Has nobody assessed if the NHS could cope with a sudden influx of retirees from Spain?

I'm sure our responsible Government Of Grown Ups has completed as thorough and thoughtful impact assessment of this as it has for all aspects of Brexit.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

More Brexit joy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ng-us-dear

Quote:
The price of their support has been to split Britain down the middle. Whatever side you cleave to, can we at least agree that, as the pound sinks towards parity with the euro and real wages fall, our country is in a perilous position? With effectively a year left to complete the article 50 negotiations there is no progress worth mentioning. If nothing changes, we will either crash out of the EU with no plan for the future or be forced to admit that Brussels can do as it pleases. This isn’t an argument between Remainers and Leavers but between realists and fantasists.

May joined the fantasists the moment she entered Downing Street and I wonder if she can ever break free. By pandering to the right, she has increased the power of the right and made the only story that millions hear the story that the right wants to tell.

Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.

No one in the government has hammered home the uncomfortable truth that clearly we will have to pay a divorce bill if we want to extract concessions from the EU on trade and jobs. Clearly, too, the EU will try to push it as high as it can. Instead, May has struck fantastical poses: that the European court of justice can have no say in British life, for instance, even though dozens of legal and trade agreements have it as the court of final appeal.

Author:  Kern [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Quote:
Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.


That's the part that worries me most. All those people are going to feel betrayed and even more disillusioned with the system, leaving opportunities for any cynical and exploitative demagogue wanting to ride to victory.

Author:  MaliA [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Kern wrote:
Quote:
Step away from the liberal world for a moment and walk in the shoes of Leave supporters. They won a democratic vote and cannot see why we cannot just impose immigration controls and cut all links without paying a penny.


That's the part that worries me most. All those people are going to feel betrayed and even more disillusioned with the system, leaving opportunities for any cynical and exploitative demagogue wanting to ride to victory.


Would work well for Labour

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 15:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

Quote:
And then came the oldest, most foolish Brexit delusion of all - that the UK should prepare to walk away from the talks.

No-one who proposes this ever mentions how they plan to maintain flights from or to UK airports without an agreement on Open Skies, or transport nuclear materials without an agreement on Euratom, or get goods into and out of Britain without customs infrastructure in place on the Channel, or allow people to leave and enter the UK without an immigration system designed for them. The notion that the Europeans could be bluffed into capitulation by us threatening to blow our own face off would be laughable if it were not leading us so relentlessly towards the very real possibility that we might actually do it.


http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09/01/ ... -no-answer

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Sep 03, 2017 17:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Taking the Brexit

.

Page 50 of 131 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/