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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:51 
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Sleepyhead

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Lonewolves wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
As an aside, fucking UKIP have realised that once Brexit happens they no longer have a reason to exist, and so their 'six tests' (always six!) have been made impossible to meet, so they have something to moan about.

This sentence is hurting my brain. What do you mean?


UKIP have come up with six tests that Brexit must meet to be acceptable.

UKIP have made at least one of these impossible.

UKIP have done this because their entire purpose was to achieve Brexit, but now that has happened they don't want to just walk away; they like the money they get and the feeling of importance! So rather than accept Brexit and become irrelevant, they need to find fault with it.

Hence the tests.

The impossible one is the budget and oversight one, FYI.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:25 
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Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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One tiny, tiny positive of Article 50 being triggered is that the Facebook crowing from some of my Facebook friends that filled my timeline when they 'won' the referendum has been completely absent today. In fact, those friends have been very quiet on the subject for some time now. Maybe they're being quiet out of consideration for others, but I hope it's more down to the fact that they're realising that Brexit may not be a good idea after all.

The Nick Clegg piece on Newsnight was pretty depressing viewing (not just because of Nick Clegg) where he visited Ebbw Vale. Locals moaning about immigration (it's 2% there) and EU money being spent badly in the town among other things (it looks like they received a fair amount of EU money went there, so I'm not sure where they think any more money is going to come from now).

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:44 
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:3

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I removed the only active supporter of Brexit from my friends list so everything is lovely in my Facebook bubble. :D

(Not for that reason - although I suspect he probably thinks it was.)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:58 
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Here's the exit letter, via gov.uk.

The TL;DR:
Quote:
It's not you, it's me


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:59 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Jesus Christ that goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:03 
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This is what taking back control looks like:

The Prime Minister wrote:
We also understand that there will be consequences for the UK of leaving the EU: we know that we will lose influence over the rules that affect the European economy. We also know that UK companies will, as they trade within the EU, have to align with rules agreed by institutions of which we are no longer a part – just as UK companies do in other overseas markets.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:33 
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gooby pls

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What the fuck is this? Pretty sure no-one mentioned anything about this in either the Remain or Leave campaigns.

Quote:
In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community.


Although I guess if they had the Leavers would just be all "we don't want any of that nuclear power malarky over here" :(

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:36 
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Nobody was aware of it until it appeared in the A50 bill. Euratom, it turns out, uses EU institutions to function and so we have to leave because we don't want to be ruled by the EU court. I'll dig out the speeches in the Commons on this later, but it does come across as petty and self-destructive as everything else.

Nuclear research is big here in the Shire, and local MPs were angry about not being warned of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:42 
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Theyworkforyou link to a bit from the A50 bill debate:

David Davis wrote:
Let me deal with the question of Euratom. Euratom and the EU share a common institutional framework, including the European Court of Justice, a role for the Commission and decision making in the Council, making them uniquely legally joined. Triggering article 50 therefore also entails giving notice to leave Euratom


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 15:11 
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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 15:13 
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Didn't you hear her speech? We're now all united and behind our Prime Minister, wanting the BEST DEAL for BRITAIN.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 18:02 
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At 19:00 on BBC1, Andrew Neil is interviewing the Prime Minister and Mr Corbyn about this farce. I'll probably tune in, although it does clash with the 'Archers' and in my current mood I'm only going to end up throwing something at the telly.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:02 
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Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well. The prime minister looked very awkward throughout, even though I felt Andrew Neil was a bit soft early on. She really didn't like the £350 million being raised, and was generally non-committal. I'm already tired of being told we're aiming to get the best deal, because it's a completely vacuous statement.

Mr Corbyn looked even more uncomfortable, and whilst occasionally he'd stumble on some interesting points they weren't developed, and at times he came across as far too defensive. Labour had the second longest piece of airtime, and frankly needed someone able to make use of it.

Afterwards, Tim Farron, Paul Nuttall, and a guy from the Greens whose name escapes me, all shared a table and had a far more livelier time. Mr Farron and the Greenie were showing the passion that the Labour leader lacked. Bonus points to the Greenie for actually talking about throwing away young people's opportunities.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:09 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Kern wrote:
Bonus points to the Greenie for actually talking about throwing away young people's opportunities.
i didn't realise that was something the Greens were in favour of

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:13 
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Which bin do they go in?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:23 
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Yes

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Kern wrote:
Which bin do they go in?

The Corbyn.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 22:47 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Russell wrote:
Kern wrote:
Which bin do they go in?

The Corbyn.


Brilliant

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 23:09 
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Can you dig it?

Joined: 5th Apr, 2008
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Fuck me, the last couple of Mail front pages have been an utter fucking disgrace. No wonder so many people act like nobheads when this is the kind of.... 'information' they are presented with.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 0:13 
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Kern wrote:
Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well.

But which had the best legs?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:00 
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Sleepyhead

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Kern wrote:
Nobody was aware of it until it appeared in the A50 bill. Euratom, it turns out, uses EU institutions to function and so we have to leave because we don't want to be ruled by the EU court. I'll dig out the speeches in the Commons on this later, but it does come across as petty and self-destructive as everything else.

Nuclear research is big here in the Shire, and local MPs were angry about not being warned of this.


That's not right. Science Twitter was banging on about this yonks ago, and tried to make a fuss of it, I'm sure. Just nobody cares because it it isn't THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:24 
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Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
Neither Mrs May or Mr Corbyn came out of it well.

But which had the best legs?


The sidetables.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:32 
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Curiosity wrote:
That's not right. Science Twitter was banging on about this yonks ago, and tried to make a fuss of it, I'm sure. Just nobody cares because it it isn't THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.


Ed Vaizey MP (Con, Wantage) comes across as genuinely surprised by this in the debate back in February:
Quote:
I am so angry with the Government over their position on Euratom. Not a single Minister has contacted me, my hon. Friend Nicola Blackwood or my hon. Friend John Howell. The Culham research centre, the site of the Joint European Torus, employs hundreds of people and is at the heart of nuclear fusion research. We have all been inundated with countless emails from people who believe they are losing their job. The European Space Agency is in my constituency. If the Government are to make such an announcement in the explanatory notes of a Bill, at least they could alert the relevant MPs beforehand, and at least they could provide my constituents with a definitive statement about the future of European co-operation on civil nuclear engineering.


I'm not sure he would have been quite so condemnatory if he had been aware of it beforehand, unless he had previously pressed the issue and come up against a brick wall.

Perhaps this should have been written on the side of the bus. Although I can only imagine some riposte from Mr Gove about how we give 350,000,000 electrons to European atoms every week or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:41 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Ah, I thought you meant it was new to them in May's letter yesterday.

I may well be thinking of the stuff you linked to, as that was two months ago and I have long since lost any grip on the concept of time.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:53 
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Gogmagog

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D Davies was on Today this morning being all rather uobeat about the whole shebang. Gotta give him some credit for the shit sandwich he's got to season, and his cheerfulness over it. Anyway, despite all this, the starting position seems to be "we'll go for no change, really" so it is going to be all downhill from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:11 
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And everyone who voted for it will still get to moan about the EU from now until the day they die for not giving us everything we ask for. When it all ends up as the horrible, pointless, cripplingly expensive mess we all said it would it will be not their fault but that of the bloody foreigners. And so it will go on.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:23 
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The whole 'enacting the will of the people' schtick is really annoying. Not just because I don't think the Conservatives are fans of Rousseau, or because 'the will of the people' always lines up exactly with whatever the speaker is wanting, but because it comes across as deflection and avoidance of responsibility. If things go tits up, they can say it won't be the government or Parliament's fault, but ours.

The referendum took place nine months ago, and the government have adopted Brexit as their policy. They didn't have to, but they did. So whatever lies in store for us (Freedom! Global Trade! Billions for the NHS! Blue Passports! Casual Xenophobia!), for good or ill, is now, as far as I concerned, the responsibility of the Conservative administration and those who voted with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:30 
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I'm a computery guy!

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Duty Free!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:31 
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DavPaz wrote:
Duty Free!


Yes! Also, proper customs doors! I am always reminded of Julian Barnes' line in "Flaubert's Parrot" that going through the green channel makes one feel like a failure.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 13:34 
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Kern wrote:
The whole 'enacting the will of the people' schtick is really annoying. Not just because I don't think the Conservatives are fans of Rousseau, or because 'the will of the people' always lines up exactly with whatever the speaker is wanting, but because it comes across as deflection and avoidance of responsibility. If things go tits up, they can say it won't be the government or Parliament's fault, but ours.

The referendum took place nine months ago, and the government have adopted Brexit as their policy. They didn't have to, but they did. So whatever lies in store for us (Freedom! Global Trade! Billions for the NHS! Blue Passports! Casual Xenophobia!), for good or ill, is now, as far as I concerned, the responsibility of the Conservative administration and those who voted with them.
There are too many people I blame in varying degrees. I'd have to make an chart of them all showing respective culpability but right at the top would be Pig Fucker Cameron. Even Osborne told him it was a stupid idea FFS.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:38 
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Just skimmed the draft EU negotiating guidelines, via the Beeb. Paragraph 22 has the potential to open up a whole new world of fun:

Quote:
After the United Kingdom leaves the Union, no agreement between the EU and the United Kingdom may apply to the territory of Gibraltar without the agreement between the Kingdom of Spain and the United Kingdom.


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