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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:58 
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They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:36 
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The government can say "OK, lads, it was all top bantz" and undo it and everything back to normal. Except the cluster fuck that was the past 18 months.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 
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The choice of photos and headline on that 'Telegraph' front page feels very counter-productive, almost as if they want us to celebrate them. If we're supposed to fear them, any half-decent photo editor would know where bad or sinister photos of each person pictured would be found, or could easily sketch some devil horns on to each of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:55 
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Lonewolves wrote:
They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay.

No-one knows if we can unilaterally withdraw our A50 notification and just stay in. Lots of people think so. The thinking here from Davis, apparently, is that if we don't set the date we're leaving and Parliament votes to reject the final deal, we end up not leaving at all. So he wants to set the date now so if Parliament rejects the deal we cliff-edge out instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:29 
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Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 
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Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94:

I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:43 
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MaliA wrote:
Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.


Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:45 
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Kern wrote:
Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94:

I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today.

My MP is! (Stephen Hammond.)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 
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How is Ken Clarke not there?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:47 
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Cras wrote:
How is Ken Clarke not there?

He is. Bottom row, second from left.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 
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So he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:30 
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Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.


Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education.


Agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:38 
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Would she be as awful as Theresa May, though?



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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:21 
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Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 
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Kern wrote:
Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear.


I like that he said that we should look to a Europe of cooperation, where we work towards a common goal of mutual prosperity.

And the very first question he got from journalists was, “So why are you leaving then?”

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:56 
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Seen on Twitter: "Continuing with Brexit in the face of the evidence is like if you booked a trip to Dignitas after being diagnosed with a terminal illness, then discovered there's a cure but you're still going to Switzerland so you don't have to deal with Ryanair's customer service."


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 21:09 
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DExEU, April:

Quote:
But a spokeswoman for the Brexit department said in a statement: “No decisions have been taken about the location of the European Banking Authority or the European Medicines Agency, these will be subject to the exit negotiations.”

“As part of these negotiations the government will discuss with the EU and member states how best to continue cooperation in the fields of banking and medicines regulation in the best interests of both the UK and the EU.”


Today:

Quote:
London is losing the European Medicines Agency to Amsterdam and the European Banking Authority to Paris, in one of the first concrete signs of Brexit as the UK prepares to leave the European Union.


Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams.

Sources:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3348057/t ... t-insists/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:03 
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Despite all the bluster, thete's very little activity, which suggests there isn't the will in Parliament to do this. I think the UK'll take a few more hits like the 2 agencies leaving, then not leave, and Cras would be right all along.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:12 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams.


Do you think they ever really thought there was a legitimate chance of the EBA / EMA staying in the UK? Surely no one in the DExEU genuinely believed that this was something that could be decided in the negotiations.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:23 
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Definitely not.

Oh.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 21:19 
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Did anyone vaguely intelligent expect to keep them?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 21:46 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Did anyone vaguely intelligent expect to keep them?


No, just all the Brexiters

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 21:09 
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Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:39 
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It suppose it just conceivably might be, but given that I have only ever heard that slimy prick spout absolute fucking bollocks I can't be arsed reading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:51 
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Banned!

Quote:
UK cities, including Leeds, which are bidding to be crowned the European Capital of Culture have had their hopes dashed by Brussels as a result of Brexit, prompting a furious political backlash.... Arts Minister John Glen hit out at the "crazy decision by (the) European Commission", adding: "We're leaving the EU - not Europe! My team at DCMS are speaking with the five cities right now on the way forward."

But a European Commission spokesman said: "The decision to nominate Hungary and the UK as hosts of the European Capitals of Culture for 2023 was taken by the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers in 2014, two years before the UK decided to leave the EU.

"As one of the many concrete consequences of that UK decision, UK participation is no longer possible. It therefore makes sense to discontinue the selection process."

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:06 
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MaliA wrote:
Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.


The timing of this just as reports of significant funding collaboration between vote leave and leave.EU start to come out makes me doubt it's anything of value at all. And Hannan is a massive cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 
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Cras wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.


The timing of this just as reports of significant funding collaboration between vote leave and leave.EU start to come out makes me doubt it's anything of value at all. And Hannan is a massive cunt.


I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:20 
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Good writeup of the consequences of a hard brexit on UK aviation from the FT.
https://www.ft.com/content/e7674638-d07 ... 4ce08b24dc

Quote:
In the area of aviation in particular, the European Commission sees little room for creativity or “bespoke” arrangement that the UK is hoping to negotiate, according to a presentation to the EU member states seen by the Financial Times. 

If Britain left the single market, the paper states, UK-owned airlines would automatically lose existing flying rights in Europe’s “fully liberalised” aviation market, and would no longer be entitled to EU recognition of approvals for parts or certificates for airworthiness.

Ownership restrictions would also apply, forcing groups such as Ryanair and International Airlines Group to buy out British shareholders to ensure they were 50 per cent owned and controlled by EU nationals, in order to continue operating routes within the EU. 

“UK red lines mean exit from the single market,” the commission presentation said. “All rights, obligations and benefits derived cease. No traffic rights — end of market access; ownership & control rules — third country restrictions kick in; end of mutual recognition of certificates; end of participation in European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).” 

“Air freedoms [are] granted by way of international agreement. What is not expressly agreed is prohibited,” the paper adds.

If strictly applied in a no-deal Brexit scenario, such an approach would lead to the grounding of many UK flights — something British ministers have dismissed as scaremongering. The paper notes there are no World Trade Organisation fallback options for aviation and makes clear that “old bilateral agreements between member states and the UK are not revived”. 


Quote:
“Does anybody seriously think the Spanish government, which would see hotel bookings collapse in 2019, is going to intervene to stop the planes flying? Of course they’re not,” Mr [Chris] Grayling told the BBC. 
Let's hope these shallow, reflexive reassurances turn out better than "of course we will prevail in talks, BMW sell us too many cars" or "of course the EU won't move the medicine's agency from London" or "of course we will hold trade talks in parallel with the divorce bill negotiation" or "of course we can easily sort out the border in Ireland". And let us hope that Mr Grayling's casual dismissal of the risk does not imply he's equally casual about doing the hard yards and negotiating an agreement that avoids that risk.

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Quote:

UK airlines risk losing flying rights, says leaked Brexit paper

Brussels sees little room for ‘bespoke’ aviation deal if Britain exits single market

EU Brexit negotiators are taking a tough stance on aviation that would dramatically restrict UK airline operating rights unless Britain follows the bloc’s laws and courts, according to leaked planning documents. 

The EU’s 27 remaining member states have begun preparing for talks on future EU-UK relations, outlining models of co-operation in aviation, fisheries and research that strictly adhere to precedents in existing arrangements with non-EU countries. 

In the area of aviation in particular, the European Commission sees little room for creativity or “bespoke” arrangement that the UK is hoping to negotiate, according to a presentation to the EU member states seen by the Financial Times. 

If Britain left the single market, the paper states, UK-owned airlines would automatically lose existing flying rights in Europe’s “fully liberalised” aviation market, and would no longer be entitled to EU recognition of approvals for parts or certificates for airworthiness.

Ownership restrictions would also apply, forcing groups such as Ryanair and International Airlines Group to buy out British shareholders to ensure they were 50 per cent owned and controlled by EU nationals, in order to continue operating routes within the EU. 

“UK red lines mean exit from the single market,” the commission presentation said. “All rights, obligations and benefits derived cease. No traffic rights — end of market access; ownership & control rules — third country restrictions kick in; end of mutual recognition of certificates; end of participation in European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).” 

“Air freedoms [are] granted by way of international agreement. What is not expressly agreed is prohibited,” the paper adds. 

If strictly applied in a no-deal Brexit scenario, such an approach would lead to the grounding of many UK flights — something British ministers have dismissed as scaremongering. The paper notes there are no World Trade Organisation fallback options for aviation and makes clear that “old bilateral agreements between member states and the UK are not revived”. 

The UK sees more scope for a closer relationship, even outside the remit of European courts. Chris Grayling, Britain’s transport minister, has said Britain is likely to remain a member of the EASA “at the end of the negotiations” and maintain similar flying rights.

“Does anybody seriously think the Spanish government, which would see hotel bookings collapse in 2019, is going to intervene to stop the planes flying? Of course they’re not,” Mr Grayling told the BBC. 

In an explanation of the types of aviation agreement possible, the commission paper notes that full market access — including “up to nine freedoms of the air” — would require “full transposition and application of the EU acquis [of aviation law]” and “alignment with European Court of Justice interpretation of EU acquis”. 

The business model of UK-based carriers currently relies on the full range of nine flying rights, including provisions that allow airlines such as EasyJet or British Airways to fly from Madrid to Berlin or from Milan to Rome. 

A second co-operation model outlined is based on the Common Aviation Area agreements with Georgia and Moldova. That model would only require partial application of EU law and no EU court rulings — more acceptable conditions for the UK government. 

But the commission argues that in this case, UK operators would be allowed to operate flights to or from EU destinations only if they start or end in Britain, the so-called third and fourth freedoms of the air. EU ownership restrictions would also apply. 

The third model identified by the commission negotiators would offer the type of market access enjoyed by US or Canadian airlines. These include lighter regulatory obligations and no role for European courts.

EasyJet and some other UK carriers have already begun to establish European offshoots in an attempt to minimise potential disruption after Brexit. 

Big European carriers such as Lufthansa and Air France see the potential to exploit Brexit talks to squeeze out budget carrier rivals such as EasyJet and Ryanair. Diplomats say France and Germany have taken firm positions on the requirements for UK access to the aviation market in preliminary discussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:44 
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Who cares? Only traitors and foreigners need to use the planes anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:45 
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markg wrote:
Who cares? Only traitors and foreigners need to use the planes anyway.


It'll do wonders for our CO2 emissions.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:11 
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When politicians do this "Of course the Spanish tourism industry / German car industry / Italian prosecco industry / Hungarian cheese industry will not let that happen!" thing, do you thing they really believe it, or are they just punting a difficult question down the line at the same time playing to their audiences sense of British exceptionalism and setting up a "This is all the EU's fault" narrative for when it all goes wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:22 
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I think you've underestimated the level of sheer fuckwittery. I don't think they believe it but neither do I think they have a plan for what's going to happen next week, let alone when we actually leave the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:25 
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markg wrote:
I think you've underestimated the level of sheer fuckwittery. I don't think they believe it but neither do I think they have a plan for what's going to happen next week, let alone when we actually leave the EU.


I think a lot of them don’t care. If it all goes to shit they’ll likely be fine anyway. So kick the van down the road and ask the EU to solve it. If the shit hits the fan then it wasn’t ‘our’ fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:34 
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There's a huge lack of understanding also. I remember David David from referendum time talking about how after we left we'd make independent trade deals with each of the EU nations - something which is completely impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:47 
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Squirt wrote:
When politicians do this "Of course the Spanish tourism industry / German car industry / Italian prosecco industry / Hungarian cheese industry will not let that happen!" thing, do you thing they really believe it, or are they just punting a difficult question down the line at the same time playing to their audiences sense of British exceptionalism and setting up a "This is all the EU's fault" narrative for when it all goes wrong?


It sounds good in the five second clip on the news before the traffic reports.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:49 
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Kate Hoey:

Quote:
Excellent visit by select committee to Swiss border to see how political will and co operation and technology makes Swiss/German/French border crossings smooth. Useful info for our enquiry into land border issues NI/ROI

https://twitter.com/KateHoeyMP/status/9 ... 4723358720




Switzerland, of course, is part of the Schengen Area, and hence hardly something she'd advocate us being part of.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 16:51 
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Decades of anti-EU agitation. 3+ years since a referendum became Tory party policy. 18 months since we voted to leave. 7 months since the Article 50 notification.

Exactly how long do the Brexiteers need to formulate an achievable and realistic policy for the Northern Ireland border?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:37 
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Adam Macy at Home Farm is now having doubts about Brexit and its impact on farming. I'd say shit just got real but he's always been a miserable sod.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:11 
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Hoey saying Ireland to pay for wall in event one is needed


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:12 
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Hoey talking about the Swiss border is a fucking riot, isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:13 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hoey talking about the Swiss border is a fucking riot, isn't it?


The similarities are obvious. The Swiss are known for having lots of guns, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:15 
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Kern wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hoey talking about the Swiss border is a fucking riot, isn't it?

The similarities are obvious. The Swiss are known for having lots of guns, after all.

Plus she definitely supports us joining Schengen.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:16 
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MaliA wrote:
Hoey saying Ireland to pay for wall in event one is needed


Oh god. This is one of the most annoying things about the whole farrago: the utter cluelessness of its proponents.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:18 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Kern wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Hoey talking about the Swiss border is a fucking riot, isn't it?

The similarities are obvious. The Swiss are known for having lots of guns, after all.

Plus she definitely supports us joining Schengen.


Silver lining!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:28 
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Kate Hoey does appear to be a bit thick. Not sure if it is just on this or if she’s just bad at thinking in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:32 
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Curiosity wrote:
Kate Hoey does appear to be a bit thick. Not sure if it is just on this or if she’s just bad at thinking in general.


I think it's what happens when something you've campaigned for all your life becomes a reality, and you realise you didn't actually think all the things through.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:57 
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So, a bit thick then.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 22:20 
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Colour me unsurprised:

Guardian: MPs attack David Davis for handing over edited Brexit reports

Quote:
Opposition MPs accused the Brexit secretary of leaving out “politically embarrassing” information after he refused to include anything deemed to be market sensitive or that he said could damage the UK’s negotiations with the EU27.

Davis said he was withholding the information because he had “received no assurances from the [Brexit] committee regarding how any information passed will be used”. But that triggered a furious reaction from MPs on the Brexit select committee who were supposed to be handed over the reports after a unanimous and binding vote of MPs.


It's almost as if the government don't even care any more about how pathetic any of this looks.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 22:29 
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A few weeks ago, DExEU: we won't react the impact assessments
Today, handing over redacted impact assessments: this was always the plan

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/935204483390468102




Shameless. Just shameless mendacity. How do they sleep at night?

Meanwhile Hannon has single-handedly invented the EU Single Market: https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/statu ... 6023860224


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 22:39 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Meanwhile Hannon has single-handedly invented the EU Single Market:


The one nobody's talking about leaving?


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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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