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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:56 
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SAVE OUR PLANES 2019

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You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:00 
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Cavey wrote:
You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:


It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:05 
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And I’m fairly sure that Cras, much like the rest of us, would like other businesses to pay tax as well. Criticising Dyson for his stance is not the same as supporting tax avoidance elsewhere. You can think he’s a dick and that Jeff Bezos is also a dick.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:06 
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:this:

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:18 
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Cras wrote:
Cavey wrote:
You have “no sympathy” because you’re not the one stumping up huge sums of money, when others vastly more deserving of making such payments get off. That’s why.

It’s ok though because they’re cool. :roll:


It's not okay at all. But Dyson did the same thing and has said he wants it abolished. So that makes him exactly as bad as the others.


Well if it’s not ok then we agree.
Look, I don’t give a fig about what you think you know about James Dyson and/or whether you think he’s a “cunt”. The germane point is that, as a UK based manufacturer, wealth creator, employer of thousands of skilled people in productive, actually useful manufacturing jobs that our Labour legacy bank-skewed economy desperately needs, you can be rest assured that whatever avoidance measures he’s taken, he’s STILL paying a fuckton more Corporation Tax per capita than the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon - in which case his point *stands*, whether you like that or not!

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:22 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 17:44 
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Squirt wrote:
Bit of a tangent, but our EU membership or lack of it has nothing to do with our Corporation tax rate right? Looks like plenty of EU countries have lower rates.


I believe the EU has a 'floor rate' same as for VAT. We're nowhere near it though

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:33 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates.

The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:42 
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I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:47 
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Cavey wrote:
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

Roughly translated: be careful what you wish for.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates.

The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden.


You've made that up to the extent that I'm fairly sure you've invented words.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 
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Be careful for wishing for a vaguely fair and level playing field, where the big boys have to pay the same rates as tax as the minnows?
Doesn't strike me as too much of a Utopian dream, nor too much to wish for, but hey, what do I know. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:53 
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I do like the sound of "Cavey Inc" though. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:03 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Cavey wrote:
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.

I recall you saying you can’t sell the business so come retirement you’ll liquidate and get the rest out at CGT of 20% (maybe even 10%). That’s a marginal tax rate of 35% on that balance, lower if you get Entrepreneurs relief (but that building cash balance will jeopardise that as your accountant has warned you).

Sub parte F equivalent if CT was scrapped would be 47% tax on every penny of profits, extracted or not, every year.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:24 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.
That's some nice tax avoidance compared to the ~40% one would pay under PAYE.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:38 
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Sounds awesome, kerching. Thanks Apod. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:05 
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David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal.

It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it. Parliament won't be able to say no to even a ropey deal if the alternative is grounded flights and cancelled chemotherapy. So whatever ropey deal he can assemble can be forever stamped with Parliamentary approval, ensuring he can spread around the blame for the inevitable downsides.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:08 
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My god, all this reclaimed control is making us giddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:11 
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Yeah, but at least we get to keep planes, right?
P-H-E-W.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 
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Car companies are giving oral evidence to Parliament today.

Here's Ford's written version, which is relentlessly negative about basically everything:
http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... /71680.pdf

Honda are equally downbeat: https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 3424390145

Here's another written evidence from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, which represents basically everyone in the industry:
http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... 71638.html


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 15:16 
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not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:06 
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https://twitter.com/RobertsDan/status/9 ... 0297897985

Quote:
Honda UK telling MPs it imports 2 million components a day from Europe on 350 trucks and holds 1 hours worth of stock. It would take 18 months to put customs admin in place but every 15 minutes of delay would cost £850,000 a hour. That's not including WTO tariffs of 10% and 4.5%.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:07 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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romanista wrote:
not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny

Is it meant to be, or has it just descended into farce and bathos as they try to provide analysis?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:09 
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My father was an automotive component engineer. I can easily believe the industry's just-in-time supply lines are now that intricate and that fragile. Just as laissez-faire economics demand, all fat has been trimmed from the system -- but fat reserves are what you fall back on to survive in lean times. If you've engineered out every single part of your supply chain to remove stock warehousing you're gonna have a bad time when stuff goes wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:13 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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From what I've heard, an hour of stock is probably just the stuff in a single lorry that's being unloaded directly into the assembly line.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:21 
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So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:25 
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markg wrote:
So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.


Not unlikely; in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:29 
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markg wrote:
So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.

There'll be just enough slack built in to the system to tolerate routine incidents like that, but probably not an ounce more. Automotive companies invented lean manufacturing and they're very good at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:31 
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Send the lorries on different roads, innit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 23:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal.

It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it.

"Getting away with it" status looking doubtful. Oh, and the Telegraph is now straying very close to Daily Mail "Enemies of the People" territory.


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