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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Anyone suggesting abolishing corporation tax should also bear in mind that the natural effect for a close company, one which is controlled by five or fewer individuals (such as Dyson or Cavey Inc) is that taxation in the Uk will revert to a similar model to the US Sub parte F system, such that the owners are taxed transparently, on an arising basis at full income tax (I.e non dividend) rates.

The effect for the shareholder is an acceleration and absolute increase in their tax burden.


You've made that up to the extent that I'm fairly sure you've invented words.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:51 
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Be careful for wishing for a vaguely fair and level playing field, where the big boys have to pay the same rates as tax as the minnows?
Doesn't strike me as too much of a Utopian dream, nor too much to wish for, but hey, what do I know. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 18:53 
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I do like the sound of "Cavey Inc" though. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:03 
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Cavey wrote:
I find that very hard to understand, but I'll defer to your expertise Apod.

I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.

I recall you saying you can’t sell the business so come retirement you’ll liquidate and get the rest out at CGT of 20% (maybe even 10%). That’s a marginal tax rate of 35% on that balance, lower if you get Entrepreneurs relief (but that building cash balance will jeopardise that as your accountant has warned you).

Sub parte F equivalent if CT was scrapped would be 47% tax on every penny of profits, extracted or not, every year.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:24 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I’ll guess that you pay 19%CT per year, and tax on dividends that you take out the company. But you probably don’t take more than £150k a year and leave the rest in, so max 32.5% on that lot.
That's some nice tax avoidance compared to the ~40% one would pay under PAYE.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:38 
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Sounds awesome, kerching. Thanks Apod. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:05 
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David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal.

It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it. Parliament won't be able to say no to even a ropey deal if the alternative is grounded flights and cancelled chemotherapy. So whatever ropey deal he can assemble can be forever stamped with Parliamentary approval, ensuring he can spread around the blame for the inevitable downsides.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:08 
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My god, all this reclaimed control is making us giddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 21:11 
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Yeah, but at least we get to keep planes, right?
P-H-E-W.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:24 
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Car companies are giving oral evidence to Parliament today.

Here's Ford's written version, which is relentlessly negative about basically everything:
http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... /71680.pdf

Honda are equally downbeat: https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 3424390145


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 15:16 
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not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:06 
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https://twitter.com/RobertsDan/status/9 ... 0297897985


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:07 
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romanista wrote:
not sure if has been mentioned, but bbc's brexitcast podcast is really funny

Is it meant to be, or has it just descended into farce and bathos as they try to provide analysis?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:09 
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My father was an automotive component engineer. I can easily believe the industry's just-in-time supply lines are now that intricate and that fragile. Just as laissez-faire economics demand, all fat has been trimmed from the system -- but fat reserves are what you fall back on to survive in lean times. If you've engineered out every single part of your supply chain to remove stock warehousing you're gonna have a bad time when stuff goes wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:13 
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From what I've heard, an hour of stock is probably just the stuff in a single lorry that's being unloaded directly into the assembly line.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:21 
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So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:25 
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markg wrote:
So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.


Not unlikely; in my experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:29 
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markg wrote:
So every time there's a crash on the M6 or wherever the entire production line shuts down? That sounds nuts.

There'll be just enough slack built in to the system to tolerate routine incidents like that, but probably not an ounce more. Automotive companies invented lean manufacturing and they're very good at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:31 
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Send the lorries on different roads, innit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 23:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
David Davis is now conceding Parliament will get a vote on the final Brexit deal, but if it votes no we'll leave the EU with no deal.

It'll be a clever move if he gets away with it.

"Getting away with it" status looking doubtful. Oh, and the Telegraph is now straying very close to Daily Mail "Enemies of the People" territory.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:58 
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They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:36 
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The government can say "OK, lads, it was all top bantz" and undo it and everything back to normal. Except the cluster fuck that was the past 18 months.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:02 
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The choice of photos and headline on that 'Telegraph' front page feels very counter-productive, almost as if they want us to celebrate them. If we're supposed to fear them, any half-decent photo editor would know where bad or sinister photos of each person pictured would be found, or could easily sketch some devil horns on to each of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:55 
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Lonewolves wrote:
They love "enshrine in law" don't they? I mean, isn't it utterly academic? We've activated A50 so it's happening anyway, unless the EU agree to let us stay.

No-one knows if we can unilaterally withdraw our A50 notification and just stay in. Lots of people think so. The thinking here from Davis, apparently, is that if we don't set the date we're leaving and Parliament votes to reject the final deal, we end up not leaving at all. So he wants to set the date now so if Parliament rejects the deal we cliff-edge out instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:29 
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Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 
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Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94:

I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:43 
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MaliA wrote:
Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.


Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:45 
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Kern wrote:
Phrases I never thought I'd write, number 94:

I'm very disappointed that my MP isn't on the front page of the Telegraph today.

My MP is! (Stephen Hammond.)


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:46 
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How is Ken Clarke not there?

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:47 
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Cras wrote:
How is Ken Clarke not there?

He is. Bottom row, second from left.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:59 
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So he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:30 
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Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Nicky Morgan up at the front, again. Smart moves, if she's going for the Big Job. Which I still think she is.


Oh god she would be beyond awful. Even though she’s mostly positive for remaining in the EU I can’t look past the rest of her horrendous work, especially her tenure in Education.


Agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:38 
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Would she be as awful as Theresa May, though?



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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:21 
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Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 
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Kern wrote:
Mr Davis says we shouldn't be putting "politics above prosperity". Oh dear.


I like that he said that we should look to a Europe of cooperation, where we work towards a common goal of mutual prosperity.

And the very first question he got from journalists was, “So why are you leaving then?”

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:56 
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Seen on Twitter: "Continuing with Brexit in the face of the evidence is like if you booked a trip to Dignitas after being diagnosed with a terminal illness, then discovered there's a cure but you're still going to Switzerland so you don't have to deal with Ryanair's customer service."


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 21:09 
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DExEU, April:

Quote:
But a spokeswoman for the Brexit department said in a statement: “No decisions have been taken about the location of the European Banking Authority or the European Medicines Agency, these will be subject to the exit negotiations.”

“As part of these negotiations the government will discuss with the EU and member states how best to continue cooperation in the fields of banking and medicines regulation in the best interests of both the UK and the EU.”


Today:

Quote:
London is losing the European Medicines Agency to Amsterdam and the European Banking Authority to Paris, in one of the first concrete signs of Brexit as the UK prepares to leave the European Union.


Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams.

Sources:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3348057/t ... t-insists/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:03 
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Despite all the bluster, thete's very little activity, which suggests there isn't the will in Parliament to do this. I think the UK'll take a few more hits like the 2 agencies leaving, then not leave, and Cras would be right all along.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:12 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Another DExEU reassurance turns out to be fairy dust and moonbeams.


Do you think they ever really thought there was a legitimate chance of the EBA / EMA staying in the UK? Surely no one in the DExEU genuinely believed that this was something that could be decided in the negotiations.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 17:23 
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Definitely not.

Oh.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 21:19 
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Did anyone vaguely intelligent expect to keep them?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 21:46 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Did anyone vaguely intelligent expect to keep them?


No, just all the Brexiters

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 21:09 
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Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:39 
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It suppose it just conceivably might be, but given that I have only ever heard that slimy prick spout absolute fucking bollocks I can't be arsed reading it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:51 
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Gogmagog

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Banned!

Quote:
UK cities, including Leeds, which are bidding to be crowned the European Capital of Culture have had their hopes dashed by Brussels as a result of Brexit, prompting a furious political backlash.... Arts Minister John Glen hit out at the "crazy decision by (the) European Commission", adding: "We're leaving the EU - not Europe! My team at DCMS are speaking with the five cities right now on the way forward."

But a European Commission spokesman said: "The decision to nominate Hungary and the UK as hosts of the European Capitals of Culture for 2023 was taken by the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers in 2014, two years before the UK decided to leave the EU.

"As one of the many concrete consequences of that UK decision, UK participation is no longer possible. It therefore makes sense to discontinue the selection process."

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:06 
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MaliA wrote:
Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.


The timing of this just as reports of significant funding collaboration between vote leave and leave.EU start to come out makes me doubt it's anything of value at all. And Hannan is a massive cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Hannan on Banks and Leave.eu is an interesting outlook.


The timing of this just as reports of significant funding collaboration between vote leave and leave.EU start to come out makes me doubt it's anything of value at all. And Hannan is a massive cunt.


I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:20 
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Good writeup of the consequences of a hard brexit on UK aviation from the FT.
https://www.ft.com/content/e7674638-d07 ... 4ce08b24dc

Quote:
In the area of aviation in particular, the European Commission sees little room for creativity or “bespoke” arrangement that the UK is hoping to negotiate, according to a presentation to the EU member states seen by the Financial Times. 

If Britain left the single market, the paper states, UK-owned airlines would automatically lose existing flying rights in Europe’s “fully liberalised” aviation market, and would no longer be entitled to EU recognition of approvals for parts or certificates for airworthiness.

Ownership restrictions would also apply, forcing groups such as Ryanair and International Airlines Group to buy out British shareholders to ensure they were 50 per cent owned and controlled by EU nationals, in order to continue operating routes within the EU. 

“UK red lines mean exit from the single market,” the commission presentation said. “All rights, obligations and benefits derived cease. No traffic rights — end of market access; ownership & control rules — third country restrictions kick in; end of mutual recognition of certificates; end of participation in European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).” 

“Air freedoms [are] granted by way of international agreement. What is not expressly agreed is prohibited,” the paper adds.

If strictly applied in a no-deal Brexit scenario, such an approach would lead to the grounding of many UK flights — something British ministers have dismissed as scaremongering. The paper notes there are no World Trade Organisation fallback options for aviation and makes clear that “old bilateral agreements between member states and the UK are not revived”. 


Quote:
“Does anybody seriously think the Spanish government, which would see hotel bookings collapse in 2019, is going to intervene to stop the planes flying? Of course they’re not,” Mr [Chris] Grayling told the BBC. 
Let's hope these shallow, reflexive reassurances turn out better than "of course we will prevail in talks, BMW sell us too many cars" or "of course the EU won't move the medicine's agency from London" or "of course we will hold trade talks in parallel with the divorce bill negotiation" or "of course we can easily sort out the border in Ireland". And let us hope that Mr Grayling's casual dismissal of the risk does not imply he's equally casual about doing the hard yards and negotiating an agreement that avoids that risk.

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Quote:

UK airlines risk losing flying rights, says leaked Brexit paper

Brussels sees little room for ‘bespoke’ aviation deal if Britain exits single market

EU Brexit negotiators are taking a tough stance on aviation that would dramatically restrict UK airline operating rights unless Britain follows the bloc’s laws and courts, according to leaked planning documents. 

The EU’s 27 remaining member states have begun preparing for talks on future EU-UK relations, outlining models of co-operation in aviation, fisheries and research that strictly adhere to precedents in existing arrangements with non-EU countries. 

In the area of aviation in particular, the European Commission sees little room for creativity or “bespoke” arrangement that the UK is hoping to negotiate, according to a presentation to the EU member states seen by the Financial Times. 

If Britain left the single market, the paper states, UK-owned airlines would automatically lose existing flying rights in Europe’s “fully liberalised” aviation market, and would no longer be entitled to EU recognition of approvals for parts or certificates for airworthiness.

Ownership restrictions would also apply, forcing groups such as Ryanair and International Airlines Group to buy out British shareholders to ensure they were 50 per cent owned and controlled by EU nationals, in order to continue operating routes within the EU. 

“UK red lines mean exit from the single market,” the commission presentation said. “All rights, obligations and benefits derived cease. No traffic rights — end of market access; ownership & control rules — third country restrictions kick in; end of mutual recognition of certificates; end of participation in European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).” 

“Air freedoms [are] granted by way of international agreement. What is not expressly agreed is prohibited,” the paper adds. 

If strictly applied in a no-deal Brexit scenario, such an approach would lead to the grounding of many UK flights — something British ministers have dismissed as scaremongering. The paper notes there are no World Trade Organisation fallback options for aviation and makes clear that “old bilateral agreements between member states and the UK are not revived”. 

The UK sees more scope for a closer relationship, even outside the remit of European courts. Chris Grayling, Britain’s transport minister, has said Britain is likely to remain a member of the EASA “at the end of the negotiations” and maintain similar flying rights.

“Does anybody seriously think the Spanish government, which would see hotel bookings collapse in 2019, is going to intervene to stop the planes flying? Of course they’re not,” Mr Grayling told the BBC. 

In an explanation of the types of aviation agreement possible, the commission paper notes that full market access — including “up to nine freedoms of the air” — would require “full transposition and application of the EU acquis [of aviation law]” and “alignment with European Court of Justice interpretation of EU acquis”. 

The business model of UK-based carriers currently relies on the full range of nine flying rights, including provisions that allow airlines such as EasyJet or British Airways to fly from Madrid to Berlin or from Milan to Rome. 

A second co-operation model outlined is based on the Common Aviation Area agreements with Georgia and Moldova. That model would only require partial application of EU law and no EU court rulings — more acceptable conditions for the UK government. 

But the commission argues that in this case, UK operators would be allowed to operate flights to or from EU destinations only if they start or end in Britain, the so-called third and fourth freedoms of the air. EU ownership restrictions would also apply. 

The third model identified by the commission negotiators would offer the type of market access enjoyed by US or Canadian airlines. These include lighter regulatory obligations and no role for European courts.

EasyJet and some other UK carriers have already begun to establish European offshoots in an attempt to minimise potential disruption after Brexit. 

Big European carriers such as Lufthansa and Air France see the potential to exploit Brexit talks to squeeze out budget carrier rivals such as EasyJet and Ryanair. Diplomats say France and Germany have taken firm positions on the requirements for UK access to the aviation market in preliminary discussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:44 
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Who cares? Only traitors and foreigners need to use the planes anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:45 
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markg wrote:
Who cares? Only traitors and foreigners need to use the planes anyway.


It'll do wonders for our CO2 emissions.


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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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