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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 18:45 
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From this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/905093817946300416




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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 18:59 
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Gogmagog

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
From this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/905093817946300416




That's superb. Thank you

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 19:02 
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Hello Hello Hello

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I think I've said this a bit earlier in the thread, but this entire farce would be genuinely top-tier entertainment, watching an absolute bunch of clueless fucking clowns three miles out of their depth and floundering magnificently - if those same clowns weren't playing fast and loose with the ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY and the lives of TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

Thank god we've got the natural party of government at the helm.

'At least it's not Corbyn' folks like Cavey will say, to which I'd reply well at least he wouldn't start off by effectively telling the 27 countries we need to get on our side to collectively fuck off, or 'go whistle' as our foreign secretary would have it.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 21:22 
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.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 22:04 
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The next proposal will involve being outside the EU Mondays through Thursdays, then inside it over the long weekend.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 22:14 
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Hearthly wrote:
I think I've said this a bit earlier in the thread, but this entire farce would be genuinely top-tier entertainment, watching an absolute bunch of clueless fucking clowns three miles out of their depth and floundering magnificently - if those same clowns weren't playing fast and loose with the ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY and the lives of TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.


Doctoral students as yet unborn will be churning out theses on this for years. In history books, it'll be called 'that time Britain went bonkers'.

I am also increasingly convinced that in 2026, over 52% of people will claim to have voted 'remain'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 15:02 
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"They need us more than we need them."


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 15:06 
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I keep on forgetting about 'Czechia'. I've only just trained myself not to say 'Czechoslovakia'.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 14:11 
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Guardian: No Europeans need apply: evidence mounts of discrimination in UK

Unsurprising and depressing report about rising (and illegal) discrimination against EU citizens.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 19:54 
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Good article by joris luyendijk https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... le-economy

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:31 
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Well, here's a new entry for the 'benefits of Brexit' side of the table. Alongside blue passports and fish, please add 'trees'.

From #contribution-32B27A12-2387-4307-A350-FFF9B6AC88DD" class="postlink">yesterday's debate in the Lords:

Lord Framlingham (Con) wrote:
One area not yet dealt with in position papers—it is not really a headline issue but it is of particular interest to me—is the protection of our urban trees and our woodlands from imported diseases. In this, Brexit will prove invaluable.
...
There are existing regulations governing the importation of trees into the United Kingdom, but they are far from watertight and are designed to work for countries with land borders with each other, who do much trading of trees across those borders. The regulations are not as tight or rigorously policed as they should be. We are an island, and should make the most possible use of that to protect our trees from infection. It may even be appropriate to revisit the question of a quarantine period for imported trees.

Brexit presents us with a golden opportunity to look at this matter afresh, to put biosecurity at the top of our agenda and ensure we are doing all we can to protect Britain’s trees


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:42 
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Also, pirates!

Lord Spicer (Con) wrote:
Historically, we happen to be rather good at free trade, too. We started as pirates in the 16th century, but have moved on from then. We have been very successful.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:45 
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The ever-reliable Ian Dunt (the more I read his stuff, the more I like him) has posted an interesting overview of the EEA and EFTA. Worth reading to get yourself up to speed about them, how they run, and how they relate to the EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 15:15 
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Gogmagog

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http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/pl ... now-459168

Oh dear. What were they thinking

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 15:24 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Brave.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 18:06 
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That £350 million for the NHS should haunt Boris Johnson for the rest of his life, and perhaps into the next.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:50 
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Guardian:Boris Johnson: we will still claw back £350m a week after Brexit

Just leaving this here for future reference.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:50 
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Sleepyhead

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Kern wrote:


This is a leadership bid; plain and simple.

Note that the Telegraph, with whom his article was published, also simultaneously published a whole raft of pieces about how great he is and how he is our national saviour and needs to become PM right away.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 13:15 
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A little bit early for him to be playing the 'Brexit Betrayed!' card, but then it's been in his hand (and Mr Farage's) since 24th June 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 13:15 
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The honour and dignity of power transfer in the natural party of governance is always an inspiring privilege to behold.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 13:17 
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Comfortably Dumb

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Curiosity wrote:
Kern wrote:


This is a leadership bid; plain and simple.

Note that the Telegraph, with whom his article was published, also simultaneously published a whole raft of pieces about how great he is and how he is our national saviour and needs to become PM right away.


Although I'd prefer Johnson to Rees-Mogg, that's not really saying much. It's like choosing to be punched in the face or kicked in the balls.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 13:23 
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Bad Girl

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
The honour and dignity of power transfer in the natural party of governance is always an inspiring privilege to behold.


This. A million times this, no matter who is in charge.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 14:09 
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I don't think I'll ever tire of reading about Mrs Thatcher's defenestration.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 16:41 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
The honour and dignity of power transfer in the natural party of governance is always an inspiring privilege to behold.


... As compared to what? Labour's mass front bench resignations, months of back biting and overt ministerial briefings against their own leader, Momentum and all the rest? Man, glass houses.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 18:02 
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Cavey wrote:
But Hilary!


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:34 
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No idea what that means, sorry. (Presumably some ad hom or other in the face of uncomfortable home truths, as per)

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:11 
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It was just a reference to the way that Trump supporters immediately change the subject to Hilary Clinton as soon as their man gets criticised. As though that is in any way relevant.

Corbyn/Labour aren't in charge and aren't going to be any time soon. However unlike the 2008 mess which you attempted to attribute entirely to Labour this current Brexit shitshow is absolutely, indisputably, 100% the fault of the Tory party.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:51 
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Ah right, so likening me to Trump supporter. Ad hom it is then, as per.

The OP was specifically about the transference of power within political parties. If you're too stupid see the obvious relevance and legitimacy in pointing out Labout's very recent and ongoing woes in that regard, thus far vastly worse than the Tory Party, well, that's your problem isn't it.

As regards Labour's (entirely self confessed) culpability in respect of the 2008 Depression, I don't need to attempt anything, I merely point you yet again to the very specific and public apologies of both Gordon Brown and Ed Balls (hardly renown for their humility) and Ed Miliband come to that. If you're too stupid to acknowledge these, or understand the duty of government to successfully regulate, and therefore sufficiently understand the financial sector and what it's getting up to, well, again that's your problem.

One of the many, many differences between you and me, Mark, is that unlike you 9 years on and counting, I very much concede the total liability of the Tory Party and their terrible miscalculation of Brexit; I make no defence and will be holding them to the fire according to outcome, which I'm not expecting to me good, notwithstanding it being not bad so far in this phoney war period. But by the same token I well know that whatever it is, it wouldn't be half as bad as if some loon like Corbyn was in charge, not least because every Labour government has ended in bankruptcy and his would surely be the worst of the lot (because he's the most extreme of the lot, extreme = bad).

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:01 
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Oh no, I very much blame New Labour (as well as governments around the globe and in the US in particular) for their continuation of the policies of Thatcher and Reagan long past the point where it should have been apparent that the wheels were coming off. I really do struggle to imagine that the Tories would have regulated the banks more heavily at that time but that's irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:15 
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Sky News is doing a series of deep-dives on Brexit economic issues. First up is the car industry: http://news.sky.com/story/government-fa ... s-11041724

Quote:
At a separate meeting, Jaguar Land Rover boss Ralf Speth was said to have had a "heated" exchange with the Prime Minister at a Number 10 round table over summer, imploring Theresa May to avoid a "no deal" Brexit and to immediately prepare a transition arrangement with the same customs and trading arrangements.

A senior Jaguar Land Rover executive told Sky News, as part of our Brexit Forensics investigation, that its recent investment in a massive facility in Slovakia has "become a hedge" against a post-Brexit deterioration in its trading condition.

...

Jaguar Land Rover is booming on global exports but played down the positive impact of a weak sterling or even the need for independent trade deals with its key markets in China and the US.

Between 40-50% of the company's parts come from the EU, including expensive gear boxes from Germany.

The industry has watched with trepidation as the Government has downgraded reassurances, especially as businesses perceive that it does not prioritise - and in some cases even understand - its "just-in-time" manufacturing methods and its pan-European "integrated supply chains".
...

The industry is unimpressed with a proposal floating around Government that factories essentially enforce customs arrangements themselves, through a massive expansion of a current EU scheme for the accreditation of "authorised economic operators".

There is also some tension over the Government repeatedly claiming investment decisions as endorsements of its Brexit strategy.

One Cabinet minister was refused permission to conduct interviews from company premises, for this reason.

...

Last week at the Frankfurt Motor Show, a key boss at Toyota, which a few months ago invested £240m in its Derbyshire plant after assurances about zero tariffs, said the Government was "not any more" giving those assurances.

BMW also played down the extent of its investment in a new electric Mini as at an "early stage".
...

His BMW counterpart Ian Robertson, asked if he was sure of the trading environment within which his company would be operating in the UK, replied: "No, I'm not... clarity is a fundamental part of decision-making."

He also played down claims from Brexiteer politicians that German carmakers would oblige Chancellor Angela Merkel to offer a special deal to the UK to protect their exports.

"We are not likely to be lobbying in any particular direction... We're not politicians," he said.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:29 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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But luckily Nissan in Sunderland will still get full, unrestricted, zero tariff and non-tarrif-barrier-free access to the Single Market, right? Like May promised?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:31 
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Squirt wrote:
But luckily Nissan in Sunderland will still get full, unrestricted, zero tariff and non-tarrif-barrier-free access to the Single Market, right? Like May promised?

Let's see what the article says!

Quote:
At the Conservative Party conference a year ago, the Prime Minister promised British firms would maintain the ability to trade freely with and operate within the EU's single market.

Mrs May's words then shifted to "frictionless trade" - and are now "as frictionless as possible".


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:33 
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EvilTrousers

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Mrs May now looking for "as little sand in there as possible"

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:01 
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Thanks for that link Doc. Some interesting points raised.

Quote:
The industry has been told, however, that the UK will not apply regulations different to the EU.

Jaguar Land Rover goes further, saying the Government already accepts there will be no deviation from European standards at all.

"We made it quite clear that there is only one set of compliance in Europe - no noises from the UK Government that they (expect) any different from that," said Mr Gross.


Taking back control, yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:47 
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Another good Dunt piece: http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09 ... -attack-on


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:14 
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Soopah red DS

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Love that. I didn't identify myself as a 'citizen of nowhere' till that idiot came up with the phrase. Now I'll never forget it. I'll probably never forgive her for it, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:25 
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Gogmagog

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https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/stat ... 0981072897



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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:28 
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MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/910033210981072897

luv 2 be ruled by the party of economically realistic strong and stable grown-ups instead of the party of ridiculous fantasists who can't add up.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:47 
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JBR wrote:
Love that. I didn't identify myself as a 'citizen of nowhere' till that idiot came up with the phrase. Now I'll never forget it. I'll probably never forgive her for it, either.


I can only picture the phrase being said by a long-term tourist traveller on some distant beach between puffs of weed.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 13:37 
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Comfortably Dumb

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Perhaps not overly wise of the Department of International Trade to show off the benefits of the CETA agreement between Canada and the EU, considering that's what we'll lose when we leave, and then unwiser to delete the tweet too.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 13:39 
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devilman wrote:
Perhaps not overly wise of the Department of International Trade to show off the benefits of the CETA agreement between Canada and the EU, considering that's what we'll lose when we leave, and then unwiser to delete the tweet too.


:DD Just as well we've got a strong opposition to point this out and humiliate Dr Fox over this.

Was that the 'easy' Canadian deal that took about seven years to complete?


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 14:54 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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I get the impression that this whole thing is going to inexorably spiral, with a tedious inevitability, to a Rees Mogg / Johnson leadership battle sometime in the middle of next year. Two Barrack Emperors fighting for the throne whilst everything falls apart around them.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 14:58 
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I'm starting to think that deep down Mr Johnson is starting to realise that Brexit isn't going to produce a happy and prosperous land (at least in the short - medium term) and that the incumbent Prime Minister and party will be severely punished by the electorate as the economy worsens. Getting onto the backbenches so he can rally the faithful is probably going to be a far happier future for him than the premiership.

There's a classic line that the best thing that happened to Labour was losing in 1992: Brexit is like Black Wednesday times a million. But probably just the economic shock part, not the subsequent growth.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 15:01 
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I'm fairly sure that's been his plan since he gave the "I'm not the person to lead this country" speech last June.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 15:13 
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Heavy Metal Tough Guy

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Yeah, being on the side lines heckling is certainly the best place to be when all the "My Company Went Bust Because Of The Seven Week Customs Backlog" stories hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 15:40 
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Hello Hello Hello

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Kern wrote:
I'm starting to think that deep down Mr Johnson is starting to realise that Brexit isn't going to produce a happy and prosperous land (at least in the short - medium term) and that the incumbent Prime Minister and party will be severely punished by the electorate as the economy worsens. Getting onto the backbenches so he can rally the faithful is probably going to be a far happier future for him than the premiership.

There's a classic line that the best thing that happened to Labour was losing in 1992: Brexit is like Black Wednesday times a million. But probably just the economic shock part, not the subsequent growth.


Good piece by Owen Jones along those lines today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aos-brexit

Quote:
Boris Johnson – and goodness knows what we all did in a past life to deserve him – opportunistically backed Brexit as a career move. Despite his demonstrable buffoonery, he is astute enough to realise that Tory Brexit is spiralling into disaster. He risks going down in the history books as one of the principal architects of a national catastrophe. So now he plots and schemes, helping to plunge an already politically crippled Tory administration into further turmoil as Britain navigates through its postwar greatest crisis.

As Ken Clarke notes, in normal times Johnson would have been sacked. But these are not normal times, because the prime minister has no authority and heads a zombie administration united only by panic at the prospect of a Corbyn-led Labour government. It is speculated that Johnson wishes to be sacked, so then he can be a martyr rather than a deserter who can claim that Brexit went wrong because of May’s wrongheadedness, rather than by design. The Tory Brexiteers have already devised their alibis, the traditional “stab-in-the-back” myth of rightwing populists and nationalists, that betrayal and sabotage by opponents – “enemies of the people”, if you will – will be responsible for the process unravelling. The key Brexit strategist Dominic Cummings attempts to absolve himself of blame, too, claiming a premature triggering of Article 50 was like “putting a gun in mouth and kaboom” and the government was being “led like lambs to slaughter”.


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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 15:49 
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Sleepyhead

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As ever, a self-serving careerist making sure that he does okay, regardless of he outcome for everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 15:51 
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Gogmagog

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Curiosity wrote:
As ever, a self-serving careerist making sure that he does okay, regardless of he outcome for everyone else.


Writing about Bojo

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 16:06 
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Curiosity wrote:
As ever, a self-serving careerist making sure that he does okay, regardless of he outcome for everyone else.


Yeah but that's enough about Owen Jones.

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 Post subject: Re: Taking the Brexit
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 17:21 
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Not reading one post, Cavey?

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