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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 16:18 
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Fitness Nut...

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Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:07 
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MrChris wrote:
This is not pay to win . You do not need to pay anything other than the 45 quid or so for the game. All unlocks are available without spending more money. Unlocks will not destroy playing or fun for you if you're not one of the 2% of players who pay for it.


This is hilariously naive of you. As soon as these kind of mechanics appear in a game the design will almost certainly be tilted towards 'encouraging' you to use them; because otherwise why would they even be there? This is especially going to be true when the publisher has eschewed all other types of advanced fucking monetisation and pinned all their greedy little hopes on the loot boxes. I mean Christ, this has already proven itself to be true with the the ridiculous amount of grinding that was required to unlock Vader/Luke! Just because they've made a pretty Star Wars game doesn't mean you can't recognise the shitty things they've done with it...

ETA: to clarify, I'm not saying this is actually 'pay to win' or that it'll be unplayable terrible if you don't buy extra shit or anything. But it absolutely shouldn't be written off as having no impact on the gameplay at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:08 
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KovacsC wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...


Is the irony of this entirely lost on you?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
:kiss:


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:22 
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Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
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Trekkies won’t think about whether they’re being ripped off or whether it’s a bad product, they just hear “YOU CAN PLAY AS A MUPPET” and spaff their money on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 17:33 
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Fitness Nut...

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Bamba wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Hearthly wrote:
There was quite a good Jim-Quisition video about this.

For our circle of gamers none of us are buying Battlefront 2, whereas without the pay-to-win shit it would have definitely been on the list for us all to maybe buy it for Saturday night multiplayer shenanigans.



You really do have an interesting view of the world...


Is the irony of this entirely lost on you?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
:kiss:


Hearthy being ironic.... is that possible? :p

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 18:08 
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Rude Belittler

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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It's completely irrelevant whether it's pay-to-win or not.

Loot-boxes are exploitative. They damage the game that they are in.

I'd prefer if it was pay-to-win. Like you could totally buy the best gun for *two pounds*, and you selected it from a list, paid your money and boom, you got it. That, at least, is a fair method in that there is a clear price tag. It sucks if you can't afford it, but you know how much it is going to cost upfront.

With loot-boxes, that amount is random and hidden.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 21:49 
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Ars Technica are not complimentary.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/ ... s-economy/

They do think it's pay to win, and they've played it more than me, so I'll have to agree with them (and Hearthly) for more.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 21:57 
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Wow. What a colossal pile of bollocks that is. I'm not touching this.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:05 
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Lupine member

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Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:07 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


You can play as Vader?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:09 
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People spaff themselves stupid over Star Wars, losing any sense of criticism they would have for any other franchise so maybe EA thought they could get away with this.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:19 
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Hello

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Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


Yeah it's care packages that have shit in, you do daily/weekly objectives to get more. although it seems you unlock stuff by levelling as usual though. The stuff in the loot boxes just seem like stuff you'll unlock anyway. I may be wrong though.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 22:26 
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nickachu wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Call of Duty WW2 has something similar. :(


Yeah it's care packages that have shit in, you do daily/weekly objectives to get more. although it seems you unlock stuff by levelling as usual though. The stuff in the loot boxes just seem like stuff you'll unlock anyway. I may be wrong though.

That sounds about right. Apart from the fact you can also earn points by watching other people open loot crates and then get them yourself? Should be called an envy score or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 23:22 
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Thanks

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Grim... wrote:
They do think it's pay to win, and they've played it more than me, so I'll have to agree with them (and Hearthly) for more.


I've been keeping a close eye on this game for a while, and it was obvious from the beta reviews that it was pay to win, and that unless EA completely ripped the whole thing to pieces and started again, it would remain pay to win for the retail release.

Of course unlock trees and weapons and gadgets and all that stuff are nothing new, but whereas in the Battlefield games for example (including the most recent releases in the franchise BF4 and (the annoyingly titled) BF1), every class gets a decent starter gun that you can get to be exactly how you want it within a few hours of play with transparent and linear (nothing random) unlock progression, wherase Battlefront 2 really does gate genuinely 'better stuff' behind a terrible random grind or a (potentially substantial) random monetary shortcut.

I documented in the BF4 thread how I was very much behind the curve due to the game's release issues and not really 'feeling' it for the game overall so wasn't playing it much, but finally decided to make a push to get into the game, and it took me just a single evening playing as Assault to get my solider pretty much exactly where I wanted him to be - and ready to join my chums as a totally loaded out Assault class player. Yes there was tons of stuff still to unlock but it was 'preference' stuff rather than 'mathematically better' as Battlefront 2 serves up, for cold hard cash.

This crap needs to be called out, because it's arguably the start of the death of videogaming as we know it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 0:30 
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Nice article: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/feat ... rs-w511655

FIFA’s Ultimate Team loot box generates $800 million a year! Cripes.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 0:53 
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INFINITE POWAH

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That Ars Tec article does make it sound rather irritating.

Grim..., are you and the Grimlet enjoying it?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:16 
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He thinks it's amazing.

I've not played it.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:56 
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Excellent Painter

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Grim... wrote:
He thinks it's amazing.

I've not played it.

Better make sure he doesn’t get your credit card number.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 19:57 
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Interesting idea on Twitter from an old Internet pal of mine: we all know Disney are pretty hair-trigger about damage to their image. How many "the new Star Wars game is an exploitative gambling shitshow aimed at your kids" headlines does it take before they get reeeaaalllyyy angry with EA?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:07 
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https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comment ... ion_of_ea/ ?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:11 
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Yeah, like that. The presentation is very tinfoil-hat-Internet but there's maybe enough of a point underneath the hyperbole to trouble Disney, if it gets traction.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 20:23 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/7d1kj8/lets_not_forget_a_significant_portion_of_ea/ ?

I started reading bits of this thread by accident and because I’d never heard of loot crates and then started reading about them and then went down an Internet rabbit hole, as you do. Anyway, from what I can see this game has a PEGI rating of 16, and though I know that’s not the same as a film sale restriction certificate as far as legality of sale is concerned, it does perhaps suggest that the ‘they’ve made this as a ploy to rob our seven year olds’ moral panic has a very obvious ‘don’t ignore the age rating, if that’s your concern’ rebuttal. Obviously in REALITY LAND, parents will get their kids games... I saw it when I worked in HMV all the time, and all you can do is point out the rating and let them decide, but it does offer the publishers at least some cushion.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:09 
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No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 21:15 
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Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:54 
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Nice mansplaining myp.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 
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Lord Humongous

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FFS Myps.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:00 
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Very good thread on microtransaction-based game design, and what Battlefront did wrong, from a mobile game designer:
https://twitter.com/ZenOfDesign/status/ ... 2859344896


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:03 
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:15 
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Mimi wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
No one pays attention to PEGI ratings the way they do to BBFC ones.

Yeah, I pretty much said that.

I apologise. I only skim read most of the forum yesterday. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:21 
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Rude Belittler

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Also, it's Star Wars. The biggest franchise on the planet, and one that's considered pretty kid friendly.


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