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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:12 
SupaMod
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Grim... wrote:

But you can buy loot crates for real money, and you can sell what's in them for in-game money.


Am I right in thinking that you won't know what's in a loot crate until you buy it and open it?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:14 
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I strongly suspect that's the case, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:22 
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TheVision wrote:
Grim... wrote:

But you can buy loot crates for real money, and you can sell what's in them for in-game money.


Am I right in thinking that you won't know what's in a loot crate until you buy it and open it?


That's what defines a 'loot crate' and is pretty much why they're so fucking horrific. If you're buying a 'loot crate' and you know the contents up front then you're just straight up buying the contents.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 16:34 
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Bamba wrote:
TheVision wrote:
Grim... wrote:

But you can buy loot crates for real money, and you can sell what's in them for in-game money.


Am I right in thinking that you won't know what's in a loot crate until you buy it and open it?


That's what defines a 'loot crate' and is pretty much why they're so fucking horrific. If you're buying a 'loot crate' and you know the contents up front then you're just straight up buying the contents.


Good point, well made.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:21 
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They're basically gambling for children. Or just gambling for everyone else.

BUT CLEVERLY NOT CATEGORISED AS GAMBLING SO NOT SUBJECT TO ANY OF ITS RULES AND REGULATIONS.

(There's some technicality whereby what you get out of them can't be exchanged for real money, or something, so not straight-up gambling from a legal perspective. The design of them, the way they open with light and sound shows, the 'reward' structures around them, the rarity levels etc - they borrow huge amounts of design cues from modern video slot machines.)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:25 
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Yes, it does seem like a very clear way of trying to fleece people for a hell of a lot of money on top of a full price game.
Unfortunately I've already asked for this for my Birthday and it's a bit late to change my mind so I'll just have to see how it goes.
I expect that they'll end up having to tone down the cash grab quite extensively.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 19:43 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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None of this is new. Panini sticker albums have run the same business model targeted at kids for decades, albeit without providing you with an actual game to enjoy along the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 20:05 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
None of this is new. Panini sticker albums have run the same business model targeted at kids for decades, albeit without providing you with an actual game to enjoy along the way.


Broadly similar, sort of, ish, but I'm not convinced you're comparing apples with apples.

Have you seen the pyrotechnics and design structures around lootboxes in games? This isn't opening up a few crappy stickers out of paper packets in the school playground, and the 'rewards' are almost infinite, getting a 'full collection' in a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2 isn't like filling out a Football '84 album.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 20:27 
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Hearthly wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
None of this is new. Panini sticker albums have run the same business model targeted at kids for decades, albeit without providing you with an actual game to enjoy along the way.


Broadly similar, sort of, ish, but I'm not convinced you're comparing apples with apples.

Have you seen the pyrotechnics and design structures around lootboxes in games? This isn't opening up a few crappy stickers out of paper packets in the school playground, and the 'rewards' are almost infinite, getting a 'full collection' in a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2 isn't like filling out a Football '84 album.

You’ve clearly forgotten the reaction a kid gets when he finally gets the holographic World Cup sticker


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 20:52 
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Shinies and the stickers that were not rectangle shapes were the best most special thing in the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 20:57 
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While I don't agree with the way this sounds, there's no excuse for what I've just read on Twitter.

One of the devs is getting threats for his safety from idiots online.

If you don't like the game mechanics, don't buy it!


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 22:45 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
You’ve clearly forgotten the reaction a kid gets when he finally gets the holographic World Cup sticker


I was that kid, I have clear memories of Football '82 - '85 Panini sticker albums, and yes it was quite exciting, but I also remember never going particularly nuts over it either.

I think it's disingenuous at best to try to make a clear equivalence between that 'system' and what we see now see some 30+ years later which is an ultra-refined and very deliberately designed system of pseduo-gambling using every single trick in the book, to entice folks to sink large amounts of cash into something that masterfully steers clear of being 'gambling' by any currently recognised definition, and yet is clearly exactly that.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 23:45 
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Hearthly wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
You’ve clearly forgotten the reaction a kid gets when he finally gets the holographic World Cup sticker


I was that kid, I have clear memories of Football '82 - '85 Panini sticker albums, and yes it was quite exciting, but I also remember never going particularly nuts over it either.

I think it's disingenuous at best to try to make a clear equivalence between that 'system' and what we see now see some 30+ years later which is an ultra-refined and very deliberately designed system of pseduo-gambling using every single trick in the book, to entice folks to sink large amounts of cash into something that masterfully steers clear of being 'gambling' by any currently recognised definition, and yet is clearly exactly that.


Absolutely this! Anyone making excuses for the refined loot box system these games are using is being a twat. It's horrible slimy nonsense and about as anti consumer as a practise can get. It would be bad enough in a free to play game because it would still be psychologically manipulative, but in a full price game that's absolutely guaranteed to sell by the bucket load because people would buy a shoebox full of dogshit as long as it was shaped like fucking r2d2? That's psychologically manipulate and sickeningly greedy. Fuck this shit, fuck it right in the ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:51 
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It's really pretty ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:56 
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And it's certainly shiny and whizzy when you open a loot box. You don't have to buy them, though, you can earn them as you play.

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I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 
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And I've seen my first Vader player.

Spend dat money!

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I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:07 
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Grim... wrote:
And it's certainly shiny and whizzy when you open a loot box.


It's almost like the designed it like that specifically to make it more alluring!


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:18 
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I'm slightly worried for you people if you find a loot box that exciting.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:36 
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MrChris wrote:
I'm slightly worried for you people if you find a loot box that exciting.


You shouldn't worry about 'us people' because we probably don't. You should worry for the people with compulsive tendencies who might already struggle to resist gambling mechanics in general because they're the ones being exploited here.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:37 
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Grim... wrote:
And it's certainly shiny and whizzy when you open a loot box. You don't have to buy them, though, you can earn them as you play.


Isn’t the entire progression system linked to the loot boxes?

I thought there weren’t any additional weapons/skins/cards/whatevs unlocked through traditional levelling up and it was just dependant on what you get in a loot box which you earned through in game points.

Is that not the case?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:42 
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Also, the fact that they let you earn a few is one of the tricks. I bet when you open them there is a convenient way to buy more in the same menu.

In Destiny 2 you get free ones for levelling up, and you have to go to the in game vendor which sells them for real money in order to open them.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:42 
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Satsuma wrote:
Grim... wrote:
And it's certainly shiny and whizzy when you open a loot box. You don't have to buy them, though, you can earn them as you play.


Isn’t the entire progression system linked to the loot boxes?

I thought there weren’t any additional weapons/skins/cards/whatevs unlocked through traditional levelling up and it was just dependant on what you get in a loot box which you earned through in game points.

Is that not the case?


That's my understanding. The one potentially positive aspect is that apparently all content that would've usually been paid DLC will now be free for everyone with this loot box bullshit replacing all the usual methods EA would use to try and grind extra cash out of people. Of course that means they'll tilt the entire experience towards people buying loot boxes (see the ongoing screaming about the 'price' of unlocking Luke/Vader) so as to 'replace' the money they'd otherwise have got from the other avenues.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:43 
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Bamba wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm slightly worried for you people if you find a loot box that exciting.


You shouldn't worry about 'us people' because we probably don't. You should worry for the people with compulsive tendencies who might already struggle to resist gambling mechanics in general because they're being exploited here.


:this:


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:45 
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Bamba wrote:
MrChris wrote:
I'm slightly worried for you people if you find a loot box that exciting.


You shouldn't worry about 'us people' because we probably don't. You should worry for the people with compulsive tendencies who might already struggle to resist gambling mechanics in general because they're being exploited here.


Ooh, that's me!. I used to open every damned chest in Diablo II, despite most containing rubbish, collecting it all up to sell as other players would sail on by to go and grind the next boss.

I did buy a few keys once to use on the crates in Rocket League, just out of curiosity, and it's basically a flashy one-reel slot machine and it rolls in some item you didn't want. Won't be doing that again.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:59 
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Rude Belittler

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Also, bear in mind that Battlefront is rated 16. Even if the youngest players are 16, (yeah, it's Star Wars. People let young teenagers play CoD and GTA, so you might get 10 year olds playing this) then they're too young to gamble conventionally. (Waits patiently for the first "10 year old buys £4000 worth of virtual Star Wars tat" news story")

The other thing that sucks about these systems is they make the games less interesting. I mean, tying your progression to something essentially random in this game... How boring is that? Not your skill, or even your perseverance.

The new Shadow of Mordor game makes the central mechanic of the game completely pointless. Why bother messing with the Nemesis system when you can get Orcs out of boxes that are better.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:06 
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i am tempted to get this.. Do I have to wait till Friday now?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:13 
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KovacsC wrote:
i am tempted to get this.. Do I have to wait till Friday now?


Why would you have to wait?


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:15 
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Fitness Nut...

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isn't it out friday unless you pre-ordered?

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19 
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Rude Belittler

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Apparently, following the "customer feedback", they've dropped the price of Luke and Vader by 75%


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars Battlefront
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:28 
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KovacsC wrote:
isn't it out friday unless you pre-ordered?


Christ, so it is. This is like the perfect storm of modern gaming bullshittery.


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