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Gamersgate
https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10186
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Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

MaliA wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Ann Coulter

I don't agree with her politics, but she shouldn't be subjected to death threats purely because she is a woman.

Author:  lasermink [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Whereas men are fair game? I can do this straw man thing too, see?

Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

lasermink wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Whereas men are fair game? I can do this straw man thing too, see?

Heh. The fact that they're targeted purely because they're female is the issue. A man saying or doing exactly the same thing has been largely left alone during this conflict.

Author:  Bear or Bust [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 16:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Quote:
I assumed that Ebola was some Yorkshire variant of illness until I realized I'd never heard of Bola.
There you go.

Author:  KovacsC [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Wow this got interesting.

Author:  Hearthly [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 18:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

KovacsC wrote:
Wow this got interesting.


Depressing, more like.

Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 18:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

http://www.newsweek.com/gamergate-about ... how-279736

Turns out it's not about ethics in games journalism.

Author:  Cras [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 19:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Dammit, an excellent article completely debunking the idea that GG has anything to do with anything other than hatred and mysogeny. And I'm honour bound to hate it because it thinks data is a plural noun rather than a mass noun.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 19:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.

Author:  myp [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 22:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Mr Dave wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.

It was implied by the omission of the opposite.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 22:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

American Nervoso wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.

It was implied by the omission of the opposite.

Only in your head.

Author:  Trooper [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....

Author:  Hearthly [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....


That's a bit obscure Troop, and I think you'd have to be of a 'certain age' to get it!

Ahhh Dolores, I had a bit of a thing for her.

Author:  Grim... [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

I totes get it.

Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....

I almost did that, but couldn't be bothered.

Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

American Nervoso wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....

I almost did that, but couldn't be bothered.


Cool story bro

Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/2 ... ened-next/

Author:  Curiosity [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

That's just about the most depressing thing I've ever read.

Author:  myp [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Curiosity wrote:
That's just about the most depressing thing I've ever read.

Actually, it's about ethics in games journalism.

Author:  TheCookie197 [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 0:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Isn't the Internet just such a lovely place?

I just don't understand people. And, to be honest, I'm not sure I ever want to.

Author:  DavPaz [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 0:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

I loled.



These are two guys running a Patreon (with a target of £15k/mo) to shoot a series of videos that will allegedly counter the Tropes vs Women In Videogames ones. And they are such charming fellers!

Author:  Bear or Bust [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 18:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate



A pro piece on gamergate, arguing about what is harassment and what isn't.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 19:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

DavPaz wrote:
Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will


You do know that expressing a negative view of her automatically makes you think that she deserves death and rape threats, don't you? You scum*.

* - Of course, by saying this, and omitting to say that I don't think DavPaz should be raped...

Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

This subreddit that dissects GamerGate whinging is fantastic: http://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfOutrageCulture/

Author:  KovacsC [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 13:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

It is quite a sad state of affairs..

Author:  MaliA [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

KovacsC wrote:
It is quite a sad state of affairs..


No, it's about ethics in video games journalism.

Author:  markg [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

It's certainly a very important issue.

Author:  myp [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

DavPaz wrote:
Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will

And why exactly is she controversial? Genuinely interested to hear your answer here.

Author:  DavPaz [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Because she causes controversy.

Ipso Facto*

*Man I hope I used that right.

Author:  myp [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

I'll ipso your facto, son.

Author:  Anonymous X [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate


Author:  Trousers [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

There was a piece on the Today Programme this morning about it. Did as good a job as it could have in the time allowed and pointed out the initial allegations regarding Zoe Quinn had been completely disproved.

Surprisingly enough they spoke to Zoe Quinn rather than any frothing idiots from the other side.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Poor quality (someone recorded the TV screen) -

Better quality- Anita Sarkeesian Interview on Colbert Report last night


Author:  Curiosity [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Cripss, the high quality one is all over the web on various sites.

Either way, some LOLs to be had.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Curiosity wrote:
Cripss, the high quality one is all over the web on various sites.


I grabbed the only link I found last night - have swapped it for one of the higher quality ones

Author:  Hearthly [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

I find Zoe Quinn rather attractive, in an emo gothy sort of way.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

BBC article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29821050

Quote:
Zoe Quinn: GamerGate must be condemned

Games publishers and industry figures must "stand-up and condemn" the movement referred to as "GamerGate", developer Zoe Quinn has told the BBC.

Ms Quinn has been at the centre of a furore which some argue is about ethics in journalism, but others consider to be a largely misogynist hate campaign.

The 27-year-old was forced to leave her home after receiving death threats.

She said publishers must "say GamerGate, and what it's been doing, is wrong".

"The fact that so much of the responsibility is offloaded to the people most harmed by it, when somebody in a much safer position than I am can stand up and condemn it... it's frustrating."
Intimate details

In a highly-emotional interview, Ms Quinn told the BBC how her life had "completely changed" after she had become embroiled in the row.

In August, an ex-boyfriend of Ms Quinn published a blog post, that ran to thousands of words, detailing intimate details about their relationship.

The posts included an accusation that Ms Quinn had had a relationship with a journalist at prominent games site Kotaku in an attempt to get positive reviews for her game, Depression Quest.

The allegation proved untrue - but the debate continued, and is now approaching its third month.

Ms Quinn, who has not returned home since the initial threats, had been speaking at the annual Gamecity event in Nottingham - despite a previous threat she would suffer a "crippling injury" the next time she went to a games conference.

"I used to go to games events and feel like I was going home," Ms Quinn said.

"Now it's just like... are any of the people I'm currently in the room with ones that said they wanted to beat me to death?

"It's terrifying. It sucks to not have any privacy. This has all been so public. It's more scrutiny than a politician faces - it's living with constant fear in a place I called home."
'Horrible misrepresentation'

Some firms - such as Ubisoft - have come forward and said they were strongly against "harassment, bullying and threats".

The Entertainment Software Association, a trade group for US developers, released a statement saying: "Threats of violence and harassment are wrong."

But Ms Quinn said she did not feel it went far enough.
Depression Quest screenshot Zoe Quinn's game is based on her own experiences with depression

"We need everybody to stand-up and condemn it - and not in this milquetoast 'harassment is bad you guys' way - because they don't think that what they're doing is harassment."

She added: "When people that are prominent in the industry can stand up and say 'I'm part of games, I love games, this hate mob doesn't speak for me, this is not welcome in games', it has the two-fold effect of making it less damaging to those that this can hurt, and it does something repair this horrible misrepresentation of this medium that so many of us love.

"Condemning them and say they do no speak for games - it's so fundamental, otherwise this is going to keep happening."
'Pure toxicity'

Analysis of discussion about GamerGate has indicated that misogynist abuse - and vitriolic messages in general - is not limited to either "side" of the argument.

Journalist Allum Bokhari, a writer for TechCrunch, has said there was credible evidence that at least one well-known trolling group was "working to provoke both sides against each other".

Meanwhile, some people previously offering highly vocal support of GamerGate have backed off.
Brianna Wu tweet Brianna Wu is another developer targeted by online abuse

"Through a snowball effect of misinformation, trolling, and ideological/emotional bias on both sides, the issue is quickly descending into a quagmire attracting trolls, extremists, and opportunists needlessly stirring the pot of controversy," said one prominent figure who backed GamerGate, but wished to remain anonymous in this article.

"The harassment is ultimately an unfortunate variable affecting both sides of this situation, and it distresses me to see anyone live in fear.

"Dismissing GamerGate as a misogynist hate movement is not going to make it go away, because it just simply is not that - it's a consumer boycott.

"Until we act like adults and come together to have a conversation on the ethics of games journalism, it's only going to get worse and worse - that's why I'm now choosing to distance myself from the issue."

Ms Quinn herself suggested that the gaming ethics argument could progress - but only if it distanced itself fully from GamerGate tag.

"If you have any care for this industry, if you have any care for the future of games, you need to leave.

"If you have actual concerns, start over without [GamerGate]. If your concerns can't exist on their own, if they have to be supported off the backs of ruining lives, then how legitimate are your concerns?"
'Maybe they'll be back'

As well as Ms Quinn, other women in the games industry have had to leave home due to threats to their safety, including Brianna Wu, a developer in Boston, and Anita Sarkeesian, a feminist writer and commentator.

Ms Sarkeesian had published a series of YouTube videos criticising the depiction of women in many popular games. Some felt it was applying a level of political correctness not needed in gaming.
Anita Sarkeesian Feminist video blogger Anita Sarkeesian also said she had fled her home after receiving death threats

Ms Quinn said it was important to keep talking about the issue openly.

"I don't want to set an example that you can do this and get what you want.

"I have a folder on my desktop called 'those who left' - every time somebody sends me a message saying 'hey, I really admire your strength, but it's not worth it for me, I'm leaving', I save these.

"I'm going to hopefully go back through it in a few years, and maybe they'll be back."

As for whether she would be able to continue her own career, she said: "I love games more than they hate me."

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

An excellent video by TotalBiscuit interviewing the man behind Kotaku. Tackles the various accusation one by one and the responses are comprehensive.

Imagine, an actual discussion about ethics in 'games media' with a key industry figure, rather than posting childish memes that don't contribute to the debate.


Author:  myp [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

So, Zoe Quinn is doing a talk in Nottingham today and I find out through a BBC article - good going Nottingham.

Author:  zaphod79 [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

American Nervoso wrote:
So, Zoe Quinn is doing a talk in Nottingham today and I find out through a BBC article - good going Nottingham.


She's been in Nottingham for the last week or so and has already done a number of panels :-)

Author:  myp [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

zaphod79 wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
So, Zoe Quinn is doing a talk in Nottingham today and I find out through a BBC article - good going Nottingham.


She's been in Nottingham for the last week or so and has already done a number of panels :-)

Yeah, I'd never even heard of Game City and I usually stay up to date on what's going on locally. It's passed under my radar for the last nine years!

Author:  LewieP [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 13:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Total Biscuit is an idiot, and he pretty clearly reveals it during that discussion. I disagree with plenty of Totilo's opinions and actions, but he has the patience of a saint.

Total Biscuit has no idea what "censorship" is. A website declining to let you post something in the comments is not censorship. It would only be censorship if someone tried to prevent you from posting something *anywhere*. No owner of any website is under any obligation to host any and all contributions from the public.

This bit in particular astonished me.

Even if consumer advocacy was the only desired function of games media (it's not), there exist consumers with a wide range of perspectives. Brenna's piece was entertaining, and it resonated with a whole bunch of people. He's not explicitly stating it, but TB's position comes from an assumption that consumers are straight white able bodied men, and thus he is tone policing someone who is speaking to other consumers with righteous anger.

The latter stuff about Bayonetta 2 reviews is fucking bonkers. He says that reviewers should keep their opinions on matters that the majority of readers don't care about to a minimum. Who the fuck is he to tell Polygon or anyone else what their readers want? Why can't certain publications try to stand out from the crowd by having a different focus in reviews than others? Why can't consumers have the choice of a broad range of approaches to reviews to pick from?

I have no idea why TB is somehow considered an authority on games journalism. I can't think of any credible games journalists who takes under the table payments off publishers to promote their games. That sounds closer to marketing or PR than journalism to me.

Author:  Pundabaya [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 15:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

The last word in ethics:

Roger Ebert

Note: he doesn't mentio not reviewing a friend's work, just that you should be prepared to review it honestly.

Investagative journalism often depends on friendships, music journos make friends with musicians, political journos make friends with politicians, sports jounos make friends with footballers etc. Then when a big story breaks, their friends are more likely to give them the inside scoop.

Watergate only came to light because the guy who broke it was friends with people in the know.

Author:  NervousPete [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 19:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Good lord, I've been totally ignorant about all this until about a half hour ago.

How can you clean up favouritism on a review website? Surely in every review media ever, arts, film, music and so on there have been critics who have championed creators and artists. Humphrey Bogart was the darling of French critics. (Much to his bemusement.) John Peel had his own stable of beloved indie types such as The Fall. It's every reviewer's right to preach their own gospel, just as its every artists right to completely bring the existing edifice of critical consensus crumbling to the ground with daring new work - such as the Angry Young Men movement did to the ossified world of thespians before the 1950's. (Though Shelagh Delaney was way, way better at kitchen sink drama than the over-rated Look Back in Anger John Osbourne. Yeah, take that wimmin-haters.)

My point? Critical journalism is subjective. You read the reviewers, gradually work out who you agree with and those you don't you can decide to ignore. I honestly don't get what GamersGate are on about. I'll read more into it, but if their argument is that it's a sin for reviewers to opine that there should be more normal women and fewer big-titted twigs in games then that's frankly insane. Surely more variety is good? And if games that meet their demand for sexy women dry up... wait. They wouldn't. Because capitalism. As long as they want those things, they'll be there.

So basically they're hateful and angry because they feel that stating that you want games with normalish women in them is in fact hidden code for secretly pointing and laughing at men who want big tits in games.

Alert. These are thoughts formulated on information gleaned over a mere half hour. Also, I have no idea what that 'It's about ethics in journalism' line is about, but I can guess, and that photo meme is hilarious.

Also also - death threats? WTF? What did she do, fucking put on a performance of The Rite of Spring in Paris, 1913?

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 22:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

NervousPete wrote:
Also also - death threats? WTF? What did she do, fucking put on a performance of The Rite of Spring in Paris, 1913?

She voiced an opinion on the Internet and had the misfortune of also being female.

Author:  myp [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 22:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Grim... wrote:
NervousPete wrote:
Also also - death threats? WTF? What did she do, fucking put on a performance of The Rite of Spring in Paris, 1913?

She voiced an opinion on the Internet and had the misfortune of also being female.

I find this opinion controversial, ergo it is controversial.

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 23:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Well, yes.

Author:  myp [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 23:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

Grim... wrote:
Well, yes.

No. If you liked oranges and I found that controversial, it doesn't make it so. It just means I have a problem with people eating fruit.

Author:  Grim... [ Thu Oct 30, 2014 23:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gamersgate

If you found it controversial, how could it not be controversial?

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