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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 
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Rude Belittler

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Irony: Anita Sarkeesian's work on misogynistic gaming tropes was ethical jornalism.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
For the last time you fucking, fucking moron. I am not, not have I ever sought to debate the merits of GamerGate. I have made no attempt to. I said that from the first post, but that hasn't stopped every detractor strawmanning me as a supporter. Having then tediously clarified my position, people like Craster and the myp have continued to insist otherwise. It's trolling or idiotic, pick one.

The quality of 'debate' here is non-existent. You simply want an echo chamber to wax self-righteous smarmery on a subject where you believe you're in the right. The debatable facts of the matter and my knowledge of them are irrelevant. Your conduct in discussing it speaks volumes, and it's that which I've criticised. The fact that I'm continuing to be lambasted as ignorant on the subject which I'm materially not discussing as a way of attempting to nullify my point about your behaviour simply proves it.

Your inability to differentiate between something so simplistic as conduct vs. subject just makes you stupid, but is more likely merely group protectionism against your narrow views that are not robust to even the slightest criticism.

'But you don't know anything about GamerGate! You're ignorant! Telling us we're acting like feeble-minded children doesn't apply because we've read up about it!'.

Even in this place of left-wing idiots, I've never encountered such stupidity.

I'm off for the weekend now, but please do try hard to make a new EBG in-joke in the safety of my absence, and be sure to continuously reference it in every other thread and haw-haw about how jolly clever you all think you are.

We understand you just fine. You came into this thread, not to discuss its subject, but to call everyone idiots, your rationale being that it is not reasonable to suppose that everyone involved in GamerGate is evil, just because some are. No one has actually suggested that they are, just that they are naïve to align themselves with a movement of so little credibility, so you are the one arguing the strawman.

Your comparison with Islam doesn't work, precisely because of the fact that GamerGate had no credibility from the outset. You cannot try to be "philosophical" about this point, it just doesn't work. It is pretty obvious, though, that this is just an excuse to be a cunt anyway.

And now you have the audacity to suggest that it's everyone else who is trolling. You really are a hateful piece of donkey's excrement.

I hope you realize that in almost any other forum of this type you would have been banned a long time ago for plastering your vile, hate-filled rants all over the place.

Why are you still here? Don't you have anywhere else to go?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:45 
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Pundabaya wrote:
Irony: Anita Sarkeesian's work on misogynistic gaming tropes was ethical jornalism.

Very much so, as she collected money from readers via direct contributions and hence was not beholden to adverts placed via AAA games publishers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:08 
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Paws for thought

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Pundabaya wrote:
Irony: Anita Sarkeesian's work on misogynistic gaming tropes was ethical jornalism.

Very much so, as she collected money from readers via direct contributions and hence was not beholden to adverts placed via AAA games publishers.

It's just a shame she managed to do it with as much bias showing as Stu Campbell and his witterings on Scottish independence.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:15 
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Rude Belittler

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Her bias is not an issue, as long as it is declared (which it was) All journalism is subjective. (yes even "fact based" journalism, someone has to decide which facts are most important, see "Englishman dies in natural disaster. 40,000 brown people too" style stories.)


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:44 
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Paws for thought

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It's a matter of degree of bias, which makes it easy to discount. That she talks such bollocks makes it easy for the average person to ignore her and the more mental to attack her.

What she chose to say could've been interesting, but instead was a butchering of 'facts' that just got tiring fairly quickly and to my mind failed to make much of a case for much beyond she wasn't exactly the best figurehead to rally behind.

:shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:47 
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So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:48 
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I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:50 
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Gogmagog

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American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Ann Coulter

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:51 
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American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Erm, no? What do I win?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:06 
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MaliA wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Ann Coulter

I don't agree with her politics, but she shouldn't be subjected to death threats purely because she is a woman.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:08 
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American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Whereas men are fair game? I can do this straw man thing too, see?


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 13:26 
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lasermink wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
I will rally behind any woman who is threatened with being murdered because she has an opinion on something.

Whereas men are fair game? I can do this straw man thing too, see?

Heh. The fact that they're targeted purely because they're female is the issue. A man saying or doing exactly the same thing has been largely left alone during this conflict.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 16:51 
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Caution Live Bear.

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Quote:
I assumed that Ebola was some Yorkshire variant of illness until I realized I'd never heard of Bola.
There you go.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 17:56 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Wow this got interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 18:07 
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Hello Hello Hello

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KovacsC wrote:
Wow this got interesting.


Depressing, more like.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 18:56 
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http://www.newsweek.com/gamergate-about ... how-279736

Turns out it's not about ethics in games journalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 19:20 
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Dammit, an excellent article completely debunking the idea that GG has anything to do with anything other than hatred and mysogeny. And I'm honour bound to hate it because it thinks data is a plural noun rather than a mass noun.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 19:26 
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Paws for thought

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American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 22:15 
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Mr Dave wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.

It was implied by the omission of the opposite.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 22:38 
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Paws for thought

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American Nervoso wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
So she deserves death and rape threats because you don't think she's very good at her job?

Find anywherre where I said that.

It was implied by the omission of the opposite.

Only in your head.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:20 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:22 
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Hello Hello Hello

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Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....


That's a bit obscure Troop, and I think you'd have to be of a 'certain age' to get it!

Ahhh Dolores, I had a bit of a thing for her.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:27 
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Est. 1978

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I totes get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:39 
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Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....

I almost did that, but couldn't be bothered.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:22 
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Sleepyhead

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American Nervoso wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Zombie, zombie, zombieieiei....

I almost did that, but couldn't be bothered.


Cool story bro

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:35 
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http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/2 ... ened-next/

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:46 
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Sleepyhead

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That's just about the most depressing thing I've ever read.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 22:58 
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Curiosity wrote:
That's just about the most depressing thing I've ever read.

Actually, it's about ethics in games journalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 0:01 

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Isn't the Internet just such a lovely place?

I just don't understand people. And, to be honest, I'm not sure I ever want to.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 0:38 
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Unpossible!

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Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:19 
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I loled.



These are two guys running a Patreon (with a target of £15k/mo) to shoot a series of videos that will allegedly counter the Tropes vs Women In Videogames ones. And they are such charming fellers!


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 18:17 
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Caution Live Bear.

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A pro piece on gamergate, arguing about what is harassment and what isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 19:00 
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Paws for thought

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DavPaz wrote:
Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will


You do know that expressing a negative view of her automatically makes you think that she deserves death and rape threats, don't you? You scum*.

* - Of course, by saying this, and omitting to say that I don't think DavPaz should be raped...


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:43 
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This subreddit that dissects GamerGate whinging is fantastic: http://www.reddit.com/r/BestOfOutrageCulture/


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 13:47 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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It is quite a sad state of affairs..

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:23 
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Gogmagog

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KovacsC wrote:
It is quite a sad state of affairs..


No, it's about ethics in video games journalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:28 
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It's certainly a very important issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:38 
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DavPaz wrote:
Despite the reaction being horrific, I would suggest that an already controversial person commenting on a tragedy so soon after it happened and trying to put a feminist spin on it was a deliberate attempt to draw more heat and publicity for her cause.

Trolling, if you will

And why exactly is she controversial? Genuinely interested to hear your answer here.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:40 
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Unpossible!

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Because she causes controversy.

Ipso Facto*

*Man I hope I used that right.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 14:43 
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I'll ipso your facto, son.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:41 
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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:51 
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EvilTrousers

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There was a piece on the Today Programme this morning about it. Did as good a job as it could have in the time allowed and pointed out the initial allegations regarding Zoe Quinn had been completely disproved.

Surprisingly enough they spoke to Zoe Quinn rather than any frothing idiots from the other side.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:18 
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Two heads are better than one

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Poor quality (someone recorded the TV screen) -

Better quality- Anita Sarkeesian Interview on Colbert Report last night



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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:23 
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Sleepyhead

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Cripss, the high quality one is all over the web on various sites.

Either way, some LOLs to be had.

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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:28 
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Two heads are better than one

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Curiosity wrote:
Cripss, the high quality one is all over the web on various sites.


I grabbed the only link I found last night - have swapped it for one of the higher quality ones


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:41 
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Hello Hello Hello

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I find Zoe Quinn rather attractive, in an emo gothy sort of way.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:54 
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BBC article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29821050

Quote:
Zoe Quinn: GamerGate must be condemned

Games publishers and industry figures must "stand-up and condemn" the movement referred to as "GamerGate", developer Zoe Quinn has told the BBC.

Ms Quinn has been at the centre of a furore which some argue is about ethics in journalism, but others consider to be a largely misogynist hate campaign.

The 27-year-old was forced to leave her home after receiving death threats.

She said publishers must "say GamerGate, and what it's been doing, is wrong".

"The fact that so much of the responsibility is offloaded to the people most harmed by it, when somebody in a much safer position than I am can stand up and condemn it... it's frustrating."
Intimate details

In a highly-emotional interview, Ms Quinn told the BBC how her life had "completely changed" after she had become embroiled in the row.

In August, an ex-boyfriend of Ms Quinn published a blog post, that ran to thousands of words, detailing intimate details about their relationship.

The posts included an accusation that Ms Quinn had had a relationship with a journalist at prominent games site Kotaku in an attempt to get positive reviews for her game, Depression Quest.

The allegation proved untrue - but the debate continued, and is now approaching its third month.

Ms Quinn, who has not returned home since the initial threats, had been speaking at the annual Gamecity event in Nottingham - despite a previous threat she would suffer a "crippling injury" the next time she went to a games conference.

"I used to go to games events and feel like I was going home," Ms Quinn said.

"Now it's just like... are any of the people I'm currently in the room with ones that said they wanted to beat me to death?

"It's terrifying. It sucks to not have any privacy. This has all been so public. It's more scrutiny than a politician faces - it's living with constant fear in a place I called home."
'Horrible misrepresentation'

Some firms - such as Ubisoft - have come forward and said they were strongly against "harassment, bullying and threats".

The Entertainment Software Association, a trade group for US developers, released a statement saying: "Threats of violence and harassment are wrong."

But Ms Quinn said she did not feel it went far enough.
Depression Quest screenshot Zoe Quinn's game is based on her own experiences with depression

"We need everybody to stand-up and condemn it - and not in this milquetoast 'harassment is bad you guys' way - because they don't think that what they're doing is harassment."

She added: "When people that are prominent in the industry can stand up and say 'I'm part of games, I love games, this hate mob doesn't speak for me, this is not welcome in games', it has the two-fold effect of making it less damaging to those that this can hurt, and it does something repair this horrible misrepresentation of this medium that so many of us love.

"Condemning them and say they do no speak for games - it's so fundamental, otherwise this is going to keep happening."
'Pure toxicity'

Analysis of discussion about GamerGate has indicated that misogynist abuse - and vitriolic messages in general - is not limited to either "side" of the argument.

Journalist Allum Bokhari, a writer for TechCrunch, has said there was credible evidence that at least one well-known trolling group was "working to provoke both sides against each other".

Meanwhile, some people previously offering highly vocal support of GamerGate have backed off.
Brianna Wu tweet Brianna Wu is another developer targeted by online abuse

"Through a snowball effect of misinformation, trolling, and ideological/emotional bias on both sides, the issue is quickly descending into a quagmire attracting trolls, extremists, and opportunists needlessly stirring the pot of controversy," said one prominent figure who backed GamerGate, but wished to remain anonymous in this article.

"The harassment is ultimately an unfortunate variable affecting both sides of this situation, and it distresses me to see anyone live in fear.

"Dismissing GamerGate as a misogynist hate movement is not going to make it go away, because it just simply is not that - it's a consumer boycott.

"Until we act like adults and come together to have a conversation on the ethics of games journalism, it's only going to get worse and worse - that's why I'm now choosing to distance myself from the issue."

Ms Quinn herself suggested that the gaming ethics argument could progress - but only if it distanced itself fully from GamerGate tag.

"If you have any care for this industry, if you have any care for the future of games, you need to leave.

"If you have actual concerns, start over without [GamerGate]. If your concerns can't exist on their own, if they have to be supported off the backs of ruining lives, then how legitimate are your concerns?"
'Maybe they'll be back'

As well as Ms Quinn, other women in the games industry have had to leave home due to threats to their safety, including Brianna Wu, a developer in Boston, and Anita Sarkeesian, a feminist writer and commentator.

Ms Sarkeesian had published a series of YouTube videos criticising the depiction of women in many popular games. Some felt it was applying a level of political correctness not needed in gaming.
Anita Sarkeesian Feminist video blogger Anita Sarkeesian also said she had fled her home after receiving death threats

Ms Quinn said it was important to keep talking about the issue openly.

"I don't want to set an example that you can do this and get what you want.

"I have a folder on my desktop called 'those who left' - every time somebody sends me a message saying 'hey, I really admire your strength, but it's not worth it for me, I'm leaving', I save these.

"I'm going to hopefully go back through it in a few years, and maybe they'll be back."

As for whether she would be able to continue her own career, she said: "I love games more than they hate me."


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:15 
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Legendary Boogeyman

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An excellent video by TotalBiscuit interviewing the man behind Kotaku. Tackles the various accusation one by one and the responses are comprehensive.

Imagine, an actual discussion about ethics in 'games media' with a key industry figure, rather than posting childish memes that don't contribute to the debate.


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 Post subject: Re: Gamersgate
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:20 
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So, Zoe Quinn is doing a talk in Nottingham today and I find out through a BBC article - good going Nottingham.

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