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Streaming in Schools
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Author:  MaliA [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:29 ]
Post subject:  Streaming in Schools

Schools wanting to be classed by OFSTED as "outstanding" will need to seperate their pupils according to ability, the Home Secretary who I like very much is expected to announce. I went to a school that streamed from the get go, I thought it was the norm (I know, I know). Some research has said that setting only benefits the brighter pupils (who could be considered having special needs themselves) and the less able get left behind by about a month a per year. I think streaming is a good idea, but, if there is a gulf and it doesn't help those that aren't as clever academically, why not seperate them into seperate schools?

Any ideas?

EDIT: You should all read my friend's book "On The Edge" abut teaching in the UK's worst schools.

Author:  Cras [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

The problem with setting is that it's difficult to move between sets. Not everyone is as adept academically at 11 as they are at 14 for example, and if you're stuck getting a level of teaching aimed at your perceived ability, well you're never really going to be pushed.

Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I'd have acheived a fuckton more with my life if they hadn't scrapped streaming in my school in years 7-9. It was fucking torture.

Author:  Grim... [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I also thought all schools did this.

Author:  Trooper [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

MaliA wrote:
EDIT: You should all read my friend's book "On The Edge" abut teaching in the UK's worst schools.


£3 on kindle? I've given it a go, I hope you get commission :D

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

My school did sets for some things, but not others. Moving sets was tough, but they did eventually move me to the top set for English. What particularly annoyed me is that I was also good at French but had been placed in the second set, for which the maximum grade on the GCSE paper was a B. The only way to get an A was to sit the top-set paper, which they wouldn't let me do because I wasn't in the class, despite having high enough attainment.

In maths it was unsetted, but they let some of the, erm, less able in my class sit some kind of easier early paper where the maximum grade attainable was a C. So a few did that and banked their Cs. It was all round an odd set-up. Seperate sciences too, which I understood to be reasonably rare (at least in Wales?).

If I was a parent I'd be pretty mindful of these things, and if I thought my kid was getting a bum deal I'll be in there battling with the school to get it sorted.

Author:  GazChap [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.

Author:  Trooper [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

GazChap wrote:
I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.


:this:

Separate sciences for us too.

Author:  ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I don't think we had sets for things like history or geography, because it probably didn't hold anyone else back if a couple of the kids couldn't memorise the basic facts. I suppose things like Maths and English require a more direct application of more complicated things that you'd learn in a higher set?

Author:  asfish [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 18:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Had sets for everything aside from Metal and woodwork

Computer studies (I'm talking about the 1980's) was dependant on Maths ability and if the teacher liked you.

There ware other sets that has a * against them like science, these contained the worst people academically and had no exam. Science with a * people went around the school grounds putting bird boxes up and smoking in a greenhouse the school had.

Moving through the sets wasn't that hard. I was in a low to middle set for English (4 from 7 I think) and used to piss around and wind the teacher up so much that the head of English put me in his class set 1

When it came to the end of year exam I was 5th in the class as I was sort of forced to learn as set 1 was full of swats who didn't piss around

So he put me in set 2 for the rest of my years at school and I did get one of the few O levels to my name in English.

Author:  Mimi [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 18:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

We only had sets in maths, but my school performed extremely well in the league tables and exam results as a comprehensive. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it - I can see benefits for some pupils, but I'd worry that early sorting into abilities might end up subjecting kids to a path leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I remember in maths that two sisters were moved up two sets simply because their daddy, friends of one of the teachers, got a stink on that his two little girls weren't thought to be the best, and they really should never have been put in the top set for maths as they couldn't grasp the things we were learning.

I also remember looking at one of the text books for a friend of mine who was in the second set, and the difference in what they were learning compared to the top set was quite stark.

Author:  asfish [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 19:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Mimi wrote:
We only had sets in maths, but my school performed extremely well in the league tables and exam results as a comprehensive. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it - I can see benefits for some pupils, but I'd worry that early sorting into abilities might end up subjecting kids to a path leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I remember in maths that two sisters were moved up two sets simply because their daddy, friends of one of the teachers, got a stink on that his two little girls weren't thought to be the best, and they really should never have been put in the top set for maths as they couldn't grasp the things we were learning.

I also remember looking at one of the text books for a friend of mine who was in the second set, and the difference in what they were learning compared to the top set was quite stark.


In my day the mid to low sets had a lot of bright kids in them that just couldn't be arsed, so in some ways the classes were the worst behaved. In the lower sets you would get the really bad kids who had what would be called learning difficulties these days. They would tell the teacher to fuck off and be kicked out.

In my sets the bad behaviour was a bit more planned. We drove a teacher mad by having our dinner money cupped in our hands and taking turns with a few of us shaking it. We would wait until she had her back turned and do it, she went apeshit one day and we didn't see here for a few weeks. A few of us were canned for it including me.

The worst one was when there was a new or trainee teacher. Kids from other years and classes would all turn up to bait them, the poor sods would be presented with a class double the size is should have been, full of the worst behaved kids in the school

Author:  MrD [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 23:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Quote:
What particularly annoyed me is that I was also good at French but had been placed in the second set, for which the maximum grade on the GCSE paper was a B. The only way to get an A was to sit the top-set paper, which they wouldn't let me do because I wasn't in the class, despite having high enough attainment.

That is the worst possible thing, and I have no idea why they do (/did, at least when I did my GCSEs) that.

Author:  LaceSensor [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 0:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I was top set for everything

:shrug:

Author:  myp [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

LaceSensor wrote:
I was top set for everything

:shrug:

What went wrong?

Author:  Mr Dave [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

GazChap wrote:
I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.

:this: Well. Except for maths in the gcse year.

Although the difference wasn't that you learned considerably more than the syllabus rather than just what the exams required. Because why slow the kids down.

It was easy enough to change sets, controlled by exams every year except the last, but moving up did require a shedload of extra work. (Which for me basically meant study basic calculus in your own time as we're spending a week on it as everyone bar you has already learned it previously. Fun.)

They didn't advertise it though, you weren't supposed to know - I was quite surprised to find I was in the top set.

Author:  DavPaz [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

We were streamed for maths, english and science from year 8 onwards, with exams at the end of year 7 determining your set. I was top set for everything except maths because I was ill on the day of the final maths test and my final score was dragged right down. Amusingly, whatever system they used didn't compensate for missed exams, landing me in set 3. After about 6 weeks in set 3, I was (quite rightly) moved to set 1, where I was able to jump start my career as a world famous mathematician.

Author:  LaceSensor [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

American Nervoso wrote:
LaceSensor wrote:
I was top set for everything

:shrug:

What went wrong?


nothing.

Author:  asfish [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 14:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

DavPaz wrote:
We were streamed for maths, english and science from year 8 onwards, with exams at the end of year 7 determining your set. I was top set for everything except maths because I was ill on the day of the final maths test and my final score was dragged right down. Amusingly, whatever system they used didn't compensate for missed exams, landing me in set 3. After about 6 weeks in set 3, I was (quite rightly) moved to set 1, where I was able to jump start my career as a world famous mathematician.


I can remember being in a average set for maths and we were the last year in the UK to do O levels before they moved to GCSE.

The teacher has a talk with us all saying that if some of us tried hard etc we might get a C grade O level, I don't think they were teaching us anything above this grade.

Author:  Jem [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 14:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because one of the other girls in my English class was picking on me.

It pisses me off to this day that a) I had to share a class with dossers who could barely read and b) I couldn't achieve a grade higher than a B, and all because of the actions of someone else. :(

Author:  Derek The Halls [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

By some strange mistake I was put in top sets for pretty much everything when I moved to my final school. I did averagely in exams. Went on to fail at a levels miserably.

Author:  Pod [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 22:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Jem wrote:
I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because one of the other girls in my English class was picking on me.

It pisses me off to this day that a) I had to share a class with dossers who could barely read and b) I couldn't achieve a grade higher than a B, and all because of the actions of someone else. :(


I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because I sucked at it and the person who got lower scores than me was both History teacher's son so naturally he wasn't going to get moved down >:(

Thankfully set 2 for English could still sit the papers that allowed As if they wanted. (I got a C, and A in English Lit. Yeeeeeeeeeeah)

I find the idea of not having sets completely bizzare. I was in some 'unstreamed' classes like Music or Design Technology. That was a terrible use of my time. I had to share a class with the the complete retards that are usually in Set 5 for things and they didn't do anything but sit there, occasionally shout out random bollocks, make bizarre macaw sounds or perform the classic schoolboy act of throwing rubbers around the room. All it did was break the teacher's concentration and cause him to pause the class every 5 minutes and basically ruin my education.

Author:  Sir Taxalot [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I went to a school that streamed for the major subjects, I was in the top set the whole way through secondary school and thought it was basically a good idea, not that I've really experienced an alternative system mind. In the later years where we had some 'options' there were a few subjects where the top two and bottom two sets were mixed together and that felt like a nice way to refresh the class but still keep some structure.

You know what I really would've liked to see streamed from an early age: games. I was a runty kid and co-ordination didn't come to me until I was in my late, late teens. I loved having a kickabout with mates at the park as we were on a similar level and it was friendly, yet back at school it was most disheartening to struggle alongside the big sporty and competitive kids (some of whom went on to sign as YTS for pro clubs, and one still plays in the premiership), and it was probably a bit annoying for them to get lumbered on the same team as people like me, just as I would have been irritated by knuckleheads ruining science class.

It really knocked the enjoyment of sport out of me as a kid and it wasn't until I was much older that I learnt to enjoy playing organised sport for fun or even competition, and that seems like a big shame.


Pod wrote:
I was in some 'unstreamed' classes like Music or Design Technology. That was a terrible use of my time. I had to share a class with the the complete retards that are usually in Set 5 for things and they didn't do anything but sit there, occasionally shout out random bollocks, make bizarre macaw sounds or perform the classic schoolboy act of throwing rubbers around the room. All it did was break the teacher's concentration and cause him to pause the class every 5 minutes and basically ruin my education.


Hehe, we had some classes like that (see also: acting up for a supply teacher), I used to think of them as a bit of a breather, a way to blow off some steam by basically pissing about.

Author:  Mr Dave [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Sir Taxalot wrote:
You know what I really would've liked to see streamed from an early age: games. I was a runty kid and co-ordination didn't come to me until I was in my late, late teens. I loved having a kickabout with mates at the park as we were on a similar level and it was friendly, yet back at school it was most disheartening to struggle alongside the big sporty and competitive kids (some of whom went on to sign as YTS for pro clubs, and one still plays in the premiership), and it was probably a bit annoying for them to get lumbered on the same team as people like me, just as I would have been irritated by knuckleheads ruining science class.

It really knocked the enjoyment of sport out of me as a kid and it wasn't until I was much older that I learnt to enjoy playing organised sport for fun or even competition, and that seems like a big shame.


Never really thought about this before, but yeah, I'd strongly agree.

Author:  asfish [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

My son is due to be in school September 2017.

Had a look at local primary schools and whilst the Ofsted reports are good, the 2 he is likely to be placed at have 30 plus class sizes are not strong on English and Maths.

So we have enrolled him in a private Catholic independent schools.

Whilst I go married in a Catholic church as my wife wanted this , it was a compromise and I didn't really want him to be exposed to religion until he could make his mind up

That said the school is not heavy on this and the classes are 20 maximum.

Its 6K a year and not bad value, you get all summer holiday clubs included and can also drop your child off at 8am and pick them up at 6pm which is included as well.

They split the summer holidays as well a month in June and a month in August so you can still go abroad before the rip off prices start in the summer.

Could do without the cost , but I want him to have the best education I can afford.

Author:  Trooper [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Sounds like a no brainer really, the childcare facilities alone are worth the £6k a year!

Author:  Jem [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I wouldn't put all your faith (har har) in Ofsted reports - my ex works in a school with an excellent report but I know for a fact they did things like taking all the "bad" kids to Alton Towers for the day of the inspection. It's all bollocks.

That said, my daughter is in a CofE school and despite my reservations (I'm an atheist) it's a good school and I've had no problems so far.

Author:  LewieP [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I remember at my junior school, there was groups 1 2 & 3, and they weren't subject specific, so if you were in 1 for maths, you were also in 1 for everything else. Then they made an exception for me because I has crazy maths skills but wasn't great at anything involving writing. At the time I thought it was a weird system, and they even had to have space for me on two tables in the classroom, and I would move between them depending on the subject.

Several years later an educational psychologist diagnosed me as being dyslexic, which made a lot of sense.

Author:  myp [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I keep seeing this thread and thinking someone wants to bypass their work's VPN so they can watch Netflix.

Author:  Derek The Halls [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

I was put in top sets for most things at school. To this day I have no idea why. I was not really that good at anything. GCSE grade c was typical for me..

Author:  markg [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

All the other kids were thick as shit?

Author:  GazChap [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

Future Warrior wrote:
I keep seeing this thread and thinking someone wants to bypass their work's VPN so they can watch Netflix.

DavPaz loves his Netflix.

Author:  DavPaz [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

if we blocked netflix, the shit would really hit the fan.

Author:  Mimi [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 14:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Streaming in Schools

As we only had one class in sets (maths, from year 3 (which I think would be year 9 now - I don't know, they kept changing it whilst I was there, but 3rd year of secondary school) I just texted my brothers to ask how it was done when there were at the same school 15 years after me.

They were in maths sets from year 7, which I think is year 1.

Science and English had sets from Yr9 and French from Yr10.

They were both in the 'gifted and talented' program, though, so also were removed from 1 English class each week to study Latin in Yr8, which then was an additional class they took from Yr9. They also said that failing students or those with behavioural problems were taught in a separate group for most subjects from the start, which I guess is in essence streaming those kids that are the most extreme cases of struggling behaviourally.

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