Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:29 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Schools wanting to be classed by OFSTED as "outstanding" will need to seperate their pupils according to ability, the Home Secretary who I like very much is expected to announce. I went to a school that streamed from the get go, I thought it was the norm (I know, I know). Some research has said that setting only benefits the brighter pupils (who could be considered having special needs themselves) and the less able get left behind by about a month a per year. I think streaming is a good idea, but, if there is a gulf and it doesn't help those that aren't as clever academically, why not seperate them into seperate schools?

Any ideas?

EDIT: You should all read my friend's book "On The Edge" abut teaching in the UK's worst schools.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:37 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
The problem with setting is that it's difficult to move between sets. Not everyone is as adept academically at 11 as they are at 14 for example, and if you're stuck getting a level of teaching aimed at your perceived ability, well you're never really going to be pushed.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:48 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
Posts: 8293
I'd have acheived a fuckton more with my life if they hadn't scrapped streaming in my school in years 7-9. It was fucking torture.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:51 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
I also thought all schools did this.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 16:52 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22256
MaliA wrote:
EDIT: You should all read my friend's book "On The Edge" abut teaching in the UK's worst schools.


£3 on kindle? I've given it a go, I hope you get commission :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:22 
User avatar
Legendary Boogeyman

Joined: 22nd Dec, 2010
Posts: 8175
My school did sets for some things, but not others. Moving sets was tough, but they did eventually move me to the top set for English. What particularly annoyed me is that I was also good at French but had been placed in the second set, for which the maximum grade on the GCSE paper was a B. The only way to get an A was to sit the top-set paper, which they wouldn't let me do because I wasn't in the class, despite having high enough attainment.

In maths it was unsetted, but they let some of the, erm, less able in my class sit some kind of easier early paper where the maximum grade attainable was a C. So a few did that and banked their Cs. It was all round an odd set-up. Seperate sciences too, which I understood to be reasonably rare (at least in Wales?).

If I was a parent I'd be pretty mindful of these things, and if I thought my kid was getting a bum deal I'll be in there battling with the school to get it sorted.

_________________
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Pretty much everyone agrees with Gnomes, really, it's just some are too right on to admit it. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:26 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14130
Location: Shropshire, UK
I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:30 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22256
GazChap wrote:
I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.


:this:

Separate sciences for us too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 17:33 
User avatar
Legendary Boogeyman

Joined: 22nd Dec, 2010
Posts: 8175
I don't think we had sets for things like history or geography, because it probably didn't hold anyone else back if a couple of the kids couldn't memorise the basic facts. I suppose things like Maths and English require a more direct application of more complicated things that you'd learn in a higher set?

_________________
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Pretty much everyone agrees with Gnomes, really, it's just some are too right on to admit it. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 18:30 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
Had sets for everything aside from Metal and woodwork

Computer studies (I'm talking about the 1980's) was dependant on Maths ability and if the teacher liked you.

There ware other sets that has a * against them like science, these contained the worst people academically and had no exam. Science with a * people went around the school grounds putting bird boxes up and smoking in a greenhouse the school had.

Moving through the sets wasn't that hard. I was in a low to middle set for English (4 from 7 I think) and used to piss around and wind the teacher up so much that the head of English put me in his class set 1

When it came to the end of year exam I was 5th in the class as I was sort of forced to learn as set 1 was full of swats who didn't piss around

So he put me in set 2 for the rest of my years at school and I did get one of the few O levels to my name in English.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 18:36 
User avatar

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 25550
We only had sets in maths, but my school performed extremely well in the league tables and exam results as a comprehensive. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it - I can see benefits for some pupils, but I'd worry that early sorting into abilities might end up subjecting kids to a path leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I remember in maths that two sisters were moved up two sets simply because their daddy, friends of one of the teachers, got a stink on that his two little girls weren't thought to be the best, and they really should never have been put in the top set for maths as they couldn't grasp the things we were learning.

I also remember looking at one of the text books for a friend of mine who was in the second set, and the difference in what they were learning compared to the top set was quite stark.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 19:02 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
Mimi wrote:
We only had sets in maths, but my school performed extremely well in the league tables and exam results as a comprehensive. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it - I can see benefits for some pupils, but I'd worry that early sorting into abilities might end up subjecting kids to a path leading to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I remember in maths that two sisters were moved up two sets simply because their daddy, friends of one of the teachers, got a stink on that his two little girls weren't thought to be the best, and they really should never have been put in the top set for maths as they couldn't grasp the things we were learning.

I also remember looking at one of the text books for a friend of mine who was in the second set, and the difference in what they were learning compared to the top set was quite stark.


In my day the mid to low sets had a lot of bright kids in them that just couldn't be arsed, so in some ways the classes were the worst behaved. In the lower sets you would get the really bad kids who had what would be called learning difficulties these days. They would tell the teacher to fuck off and be kicked out.

In my sets the bad behaviour was a bit more planned. We drove a teacher mad by having our dinner money cupped in our hands and taking turns with a few of us shaking it. We would wait until she had her back turned and do it, she went apeshit one day and we didn't see here for a few weeks. A few of us were canned for it including me.

The worst one was when there was a new or trainee teacher. Kids from other years and classes would all turn up to bait them, the poor sods would be presented with a class double the size is should have been, full of the worst behaved kids in the school


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 23:51 
User avatar
What-ho, chaps!

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 2138
Quote:
What particularly annoyed me is that I was also good at French but had been placed in the second set, for which the maximum grade on the GCSE paper was a B. The only way to get an A was to sit the top-set paper, which they wouldn't let me do because I wasn't in the class, despite having high enough attainment.

That is the worst possible thing, and I have no idea why they do (/did, at least when I did my GCSEs) that.

_________________
[www.mrdictionary.net]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 0:20 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 2nd Apr, 2008
Posts: 3137
I was top set for everything

:shrug:

_________________
http://Www.Hownotomakeapedal.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:04 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
LaceSensor wrote:
I was top set for everything

:shrug:

What went wrong?

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:20 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17154
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
GazChap wrote:
I was setted for almost all of my subjects, but as I was in the top set for them all anyway I didn't give a shit.

:this: Well. Except for maths in the gcse year.

Although the difference wasn't that you learned considerably more than the syllabus rather than just what the exams required. Because why slow the kids down.

It was easy enough to change sets, controlled by exams every year except the last, but moving up did require a shedload of extra work. (Which for me basically meant study basic calculus in your own time as we're spending a week on it as everyone bar you has already learned it previously. Fun.)

They didn't advertise it though, you weren't supposed to know - I was quite surprised to find I was in the top set.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:07 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
We were streamed for maths, english and science from year 8 onwards, with exams at the end of year 7 determining your set. I was top set for everything except maths because I was ill on the day of the final maths test and my final score was dragged right down. Amusingly, whatever system they used didn't compensate for missed exams, landing me in set 3. After about 6 weeks in set 3, I was (quite rightly) moved to set 1, where I was able to jump start my career as a world famous mathematician.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:44 
User avatar
Excellent Member

Joined: 2nd Apr, 2008
Posts: 3137
American Nervoso wrote:
LaceSensor wrote:
I was top set for everything

:shrug:

What went wrong?


nothing.

_________________
http://Www.Hownotomakeapedal.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 14:16 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
DavPaz wrote:
We were streamed for maths, english and science from year 8 onwards, with exams at the end of year 7 determining your set. I was top set for everything except maths because I was ill on the day of the final maths test and my final score was dragged right down. Amusingly, whatever system they used didn't compensate for missed exams, landing me in set 3. After about 6 weeks in set 3, I was (quite rightly) moved to set 1, where I was able to jump start my career as a world famous mathematician.


I can remember being in a average set for maths and we were the last year in the UK to do O levels before they moved to GCSE.

The teacher has a talk with us all saying that if some of us tried hard etc we might get a C grade O level, I don't think they were teaching us anything above this grade.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 14:35 
User avatar
sneering elitist

Joined: 25th May, 2014
Posts: 3991
Location: Broseley
I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because one of the other girls in my English class was picking on me.

It pisses me off to this day that a) I had to share a class with dossers who could barely read and b) I couldn't achieve a grade higher than a B, and all because of the actions of someone else. :(

_________________
i make websites


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:38 
User avatar
Goth

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 3742
By some strange mistake I was put in top sets for pretty much everything when I moved to my final school. I did averagely in exams. Went on to fail at a levels miserably.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 22:07 
User avatar
MR EXCELLENT FACE

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 2568
Jem wrote:
I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because one of the other girls in my English class was picking on me.

It pisses me off to this day that a) I had to share a class with dossers who could barely read and b) I couldn't achieve a grade higher than a B, and all because of the actions of someone else. :(


I was in top sets for everything except in the final year, when I was moved down a group for English because I sucked at it and the person who got lower scores than me was both History teacher's son so naturally he wasn't going to get moved down >:(

Thankfully set 2 for English could still sit the papers that allowed As if they wanted. (I got a C, and A in English Lit. Yeeeeeeeeeeah)

I find the idea of not having sets completely bizzare. I was in some 'unstreamed' classes like Music or Design Technology. That was a terrible use of my time. I had to share a class with the the complete retards that are usually in Set 5 for things and they didn't do anything but sit there, occasionally shout out random bollocks, make bizarre macaw sounds or perform the classic schoolboy act of throwing rubbers around the room. All it did was break the teacher's concentration and cause him to pause the class every 5 minutes and basically ruin my education.

_________________
This man is bound by law to clear the snow away


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:13 
User avatar
Can you dig it?

Joined: 5th Apr, 2008
Posts: 4662
I went to a school that streamed for the major subjects, I was in the top set the whole way through secondary school and thought it was basically a good idea, not that I've really experienced an alternative system mind. In the later years where we had some 'options' there were a few subjects where the top two and bottom two sets were mixed together and that felt like a nice way to refresh the class but still keep some structure.

You know what I really would've liked to see streamed from an early age: games. I was a runty kid and co-ordination didn't come to me until I was in my late, late teens. I loved having a kickabout with mates at the park as we were on a similar level and it was friendly, yet back at school it was most disheartening to struggle alongside the big sporty and competitive kids (some of whom went on to sign as YTS for pro clubs, and one still plays in the premiership), and it was probably a bit annoying for them to get lumbered on the same team as people like me, just as I would have been irritated by knuckleheads ruining science class.

It really knocked the enjoyment of sport out of me as a kid and it wasn't until I was much older that I learnt to enjoy playing organised sport for fun or even competition, and that seems like a big shame.


Pod wrote:
I was in some 'unstreamed' classes like Music or Design Technology. That was a terrible use of my time. I had to share a class with the the complete retards that are usually in Set 5 for things and they didn't do anything but sit there, occasionally shout out random bollocks, make bizarre macaw sounds or perform the classic schoolboy act of throwing rubbers around the room. All it did was break the teacher's concentration and cause him to pause the class every 5 minutes and basically ruin my education.


Hehe, we had some classes like that (see also: acting up for a supply teacher), I used to think of them as a bit of a breather, a way to blow off some steam by basically pissing about.

_________________
rumours about the high quality of the butter reached Yerevan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:42 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17154
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Sir Taxalot wrote:
You know what I really would've liked to see streamed from an early age: games. I was a runty kid and co-ordination didn't come to me until I was in my late, late teens. I loved having a kickabout with mates at the park as we were on a similar level and it was friendly, yet back at school it was most disheartening to struggle alongside the big sporty and competitive kids (some of whom went on to sign as YTS for pro clubs, and one still plays in the premiership), and it was probably a bit annoying for them to get lumbered on the same team as people like me, just as I would have been irritated by knuckleheads ruining science class.

It really knocked the enjoyment of sport out of me as a kid and it wasn't until I was much older that I learnt to enjoy playing organised sport for fun or even competition, and that seems like a big shame.


Never really thought about this before, but yeah, I'd strongly agree.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
My son is due to be in school September 2017.

Had a look at local primary schools and whilst the Ofsted reports are good, the 2 he is likely to be placed at have 30 plus class sizes are not strong on English and Maths.

So we have enrolled him in a private Catholic independent schools.

Whilst I go married in a Catholic church as my wife wanted this , it was a compromise and I didn't really want him to be exposed to religion until he could make his mind up

That said the school is not heavy on this and the classes are 20 maximum.

Its 6K a year and not bad value, you get all summer holiday clubs included and can also drop your child off at 8am and pick them up at 6pm which is included as well.

They split the summer holidays as well a month in June and a month in August so you can still go abroad before the rip off prices start in the summer.

Could do without the cost , but I want him to have the best education I can afford.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:52 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22256
Sounds like a no brainer really, the childcare facilities alone are worth the £6k a year!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:06 
User avatar
sneering elitist

Joined: 25th May, 2014
Posts: 3991
Location: Broseley
I wouldn't put all your faith (har har) in Ofsted reports - my ex works in a school with an excellent report but I know for a fact they did things like taking all the "bad" kids to Alton Towers for the day of the inspection. It's all bollocks.

That said, my daughter is in a CofE school and despite my reservations (I'm an atheist) it's a good school and I've had no problems so far.

_________________
i make websites


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:27 
User avatar
SavyGamer

Joined: 29th Apr, 2008
Posts: 7600
I remember at my junior school, there was groups 1 2 & 3, and they weren't subject specific, so if you were in 1 for maths, you were also in 1 for everything else. Then they made an exception for me because I has crazy maths skills but wasn't great at anything involving writing. At the time I thought it was a weird system, and they even had to have space for me on two tables in the classroom, and I would move between them depending on the subject.

Several years later an educational psychologist diagnosed me as being dyslexic, which made a lot of sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:30 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
I keep seeing this thread and thinking someone wants to bypass their work's VPN so they can watch Netflix.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:40 
User avatar
Goth

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 3742
I was put in top sets for most things at school. To this day I have no idea why. I was not really that good at anything. GCSE grade c was typical for me..

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:44 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
All the other kids were thick as shit?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:49 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14130
Location: Shropshire, UK
Future Warrior wrote:
I keep seeing this thread and thinking someone wants to bypass their work's VPN so they can watch Netflix.

DavPaz loves his Netflix.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 13:50 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
if we blocked netflix, the shit would really hit the fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Streaming in Schools
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 14:03 
User avatar

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 25550
As we only had one class in sets (maths, from year 3 (which I think would be year 9 now - I don't know, they kept changing it whilst I was there, but 3rd year of secondary school) I just texted my brothers to ask how it was done when there were at the same school 15 years after me.

They were in maths sets from year 7, which I think is year 1.

Science and English had sets from Yr9 and French from Yr10.

They were both in the 'gifted and talented' program, though, so also were removed from 1 English class each week to study Latin in Yr8, which then was an additional class they took from Yr9. They also said that failing students or those with behavioural problems were taught in a separate group for most subjects from the start, which I guess is in essence streaming those kids that are the most extreme cases of struggling behaviourally.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JBR and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.