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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 17:22 
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Ah, I get you.

I wonder what the proportion of active voters in local to general elections, is?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 17:23 
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Leafletwise, I've had several Tory ones for both the General Election and the district council poll. One each from UKIP and Labour. The young Labour candidate has a beard, so that's a bonus point for the red team.

No canvassers yet. This kind of rejection is worse than OKCupid.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 17:32 
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Mimi wrote:
Ah, I get you.

I wonder what the proportion of active voters in local to general elections, is?


Very low. Usually 25% turnout is considered good. Local Government matters, people!


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 17:47 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Mimi wrote:
Ah, I get you.

I wonder what the proportion of active voters in local to general elections, is?

For people who legitimately claim to be so engaged with the democratic process, 100%.

FFS he complains about a system that PR supporters claim would correct and he didn't register to vote on PR


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 19:19 
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Kern wrote:
Mimi wrote:
Ah, I get you.

I wonder what the proportion of active voters in local to general elections, is?


Very low. Usually 25% turnout is considered good. Local Government matters, people!

I meant I wondered what the difference I. Turn out is between local and general elections? I'd imagine that turnout to general elections is generally higher than local simply because of the publicity difference.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 19:58 
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I've had the Tory leaflet through the door in the last couple of days. Really terrible design, full of tedious platitudes, and pictures of the candidate standing in front of stereotypically 'Scottish' things, all the while grinning like an idiot. Checking in to his history he's been the candidate of choice for everything going in this area for the last 10 years.

Looking at his LinkedIn profile he doesn't actually seem like a bad bloke. Plenty of history with charity and helping the homeless. It's just the PR effort that's bloody terrible. Blurb on the back from Ruth Davidson full of the standard guff. I find her face almost as weird as Nicola Sturgeon's.

I didn't get a good look at the SNP leaflet as it was falling into the bin.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 20:52 
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Mimi wrote:
I meant I wondered what the difference I. Turn out is between local and general elections? I'd imagine that turnout to general elections is generally higher than local simply because of the publicity difference.


Some useful figures from the Grauniad:

2009 European 34.7
2009 Local average 39.2
2010 General 65.1
2010 Local average 63.5
2011 Local average 42.6

Note how local turnout rises when the general is held on the same day.

The usual explanation is that people see local and European elections as far less important. People, rightly, consider that there is way more at stake at a General Election. Arguably, over the last 50 years local government has increasingly lost powers and the reduced turnout is a rational response from the electorate: if councillors can't change anything but merely tinker because Westminster is telling it what to do, why bother?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 21:06 
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The ideological 'choose to not vote' argument would only hold if turnout for locals was unchanged when it coincided with a general. Fact is people are generally quite fucking lazy and will only do something if you make it incredibly, incredibly convenient for them. Like do things on the same day so they don't have to make a second trip another time.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 22:56 

Joined: 15th Nov, 2008
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One thing I remember very well from May 2010, was the BBC prediction at 10:01pm was almost exactly spot on.

So if that is repeated, it could be that we know the result long before any of the 650 results are in.


What could be pivotal is whether the 'halved' LD Mp's (30 ish) team up with the Tories (280 ish) or the smaller (due to massive rise of SNP) (260 ish) Labour.

One thing will be sure, it'll be fascinating to watch in 2 weeks and 1 day. 8)


No matter what happens, I'll get some policies I agree with and some I dont. That's the same for 90%+ of all of us though.

If the Tories do 'win' and manage to convince the LD's into coalition one more time, then they better give me that referendum in 2017! :)

The two highlights to watch for (personally) are:

(1) Nick Clegg keeping his seat.
(2) Does Nigel Farage win his?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:04 
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Some frankly astounding charts here tracking the pledges Cameron made in 2010 and how he has broken nearly every last one of them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74433.html

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:16 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
The ideological 'choose to not vote' argument would only hold if turnout for locals was unchanged when it coincided with a general. Fact is people are generally quite fucking lazy and will only do something if you make it incredibly, incredibly convenient for them. Like do things on the same day so they don't have to make a second trip another time.


I don't have any issue with having all the elections simultaneously. They aren't, despite what the press and public think, a form of mid-term election: voting a councillor out will not affect the governing party's ability to rule in Westminister, although admittedly it is fun and satisfying when your opponents are wiped out in town halls across the country.

Despite its weaknesses and declining budgets, there's still a lot of stuff which is decided locally so it would be good if people paid attention on the current incumbments in their community and the manifestos. And then voted solely on bin collections, as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:32 
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Kern wrote:
And then voted solely on bin collections, as usual.


Balls. I should have run in a "Weekly bin collections, no tip permits and no hydroelectric plant in Saltaire" ticket. I probably would have won.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:06 
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Mr Russell wrote:
Some frankly astounding charts here tracking the pledges Cameron made in 2010 and how he has broken nearly every last one of them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74433.html


It didn't really need a graph for the VAT increase though, did it?


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:23 
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MR EXCELLENT FACE

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Based on Policies and general ideology, I'm torn between Green/Lib-dems/Labour. Who to vote for? Ah, but I'm not technically voting for a party, I'm voting for an individual, right? So I should look this stuff up!

https://yournextmp.com/constituency/659 ... hempstead/

That picture of the green guy quickly got my attention. A quick google shows results in this video:



which results in a quick no for them, even ignoring the green policies of no nuclear plants and no animal testing. :/ I can't imagine he'd be any use in parliament other than as a "green seat", (ignoring the fact that it's incredibly unlikely that would even happen). 1 down, 2 to go I guess!

(The Labour guy is a lifelong teacher and has he CV up on a site linked from yournextmp.com. I couldn't find much out about the lib dem guy. The UKIP one seems to be a bit of a loony dentist/programmer/entrepreneur hybrid that continually demands via twitter that "questions are asked about XYZ" but doesn't actually ask any questions. And the conservative guy has been the MP here for about a million years.)


re: UKIP. Even though I think most of their policies are shit and I don't like the underlying "it's all the forrener's fault, life would be so much easier without them" rhetoric, I'm at least glad they're around as it's woken up the other parties and made them include policies I agree with, e.g. no NHS/benefits usage for people under you've worked here for 2 years, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:30 
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Pod wrote:
https://yournextmp.com/


What a brilliant site! Thanks for that.

Here's my list. Most disappointing game of kiss/marry/kill ever.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:51 
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Here's my lineup: https://yournextmp.com/constituency/65561/bedford/

The Lib Dem guy looks about 12! Also we have a Lib Dem mayor - is it a good thing or a bad thing to have mayor and MP in the same party (or doesn't it matter)?

Current MP is the Tory chap.

I tweeted the Lib Dem chap to ask if he had any plans for improving life for commuters.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:26 
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Jesus Christ that gimpy Green party candidate. Is that the best they can come up with? You'd think he'd have watched that video back in 2012 and thought 'hmm, maybe I should give it a second take where I don't pause continuously to obviously read off a prompter and also make a strong effort to pronounce full words without pausing halfway through'. Typifies the kind of lightweight frippery that I think of all Green candidates. His email address is 'goldenwhitelotus@hotmail'. Could he represent a greater lack of maturity and credibility if he tried? Fuck me.

According to the Ashcroft polls the SNP are on course for a 20% swing to take the seat here. I fucking hope not.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:00 
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That Green guy - isn't he Star Wars Kid...?
I think we should be told.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:21 
SupaMod
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This is interesting: https://yournextmp.com/numbers/parties

Why does Labour have so few candidates compared to the other "big" parties?

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:28 
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Grim... wrote:
This is interesting: https://yournextmp.com/numbers/parties

Why does Labour have so few candidates compared to the other "big" parties?


Many Labour candidates stand as 'Labour & Co-operative'. The 42 candidates listed lower down bring the total to 631.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:37 
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Now, I don't want to take the piss, and I know hope that this isn't her real CV, but:
my local green's cv leaves a little to be desired.

however, not as much as the local libdems:
http://cv.democracyclub.org.uk/show_cv/6294


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:50 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Now, I don't want to take the piss, and I know hope that this isn't her real CV, but:
my local green's cv leaves a little to be desired.

however, not as much as the local libdems:
http://cv.democracyclub.org.uk/show_cv/6294


Wow. Mind. Blown.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 13:06 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I have the following standing in my area:

https://yournextmp.com/constituency/657 ... est-devon/

(Con, Lab, Lib, UKIP, Green)

We've had leaflets from all apart from Con. Who have won it (with the same guy who is standing this time) ever since the constituency was created in 1997.

Only libdems and Greens have uploaded their CVs to that thing, and they both look alright.

Almost certainly will be voting Green, despite them coming 5th last time.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 13:31 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
Now, I don't want to take the piss, and I know hope that this isn't her real CV, but:
my local green's cv leaves a little to be desired.

however, not as much as the local libdems:
http://cv.democracyclub.org.uk/show_cv/6294



Crikey

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 13:41 
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Any candidate that doesn't have a full website and comprehensive social media profile in 2015 isn't worth their salt. I suspect the people that don't bother assume they'll get by on the party ticket without any making any effort to distinguish themselves as an individual.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 14:17 
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Which is sadly true for most voters I reckon, Gnomes.

The Greens have some stupid ideas. 14 years limit on copyright? Fuck off.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 15:39 
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MR EXCELLENT FACE

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Cavey wrote:
That Green guy - isn't he Star Wars Kid...?
I think we should be told.


Someone at work said the exact same thing. He even brought up the gif and put it side by side the video for us to see. (I then pointed out that this guy is 22 now and so therefore was about 10 when that star wars kid gif came out).

edit: Which, under Green policy, would soon be out of copyright ;)

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 15:40 
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Curiosity wrote:
The Greens have some stupid ideas. 14 years limit on copyright? Fuck off.


I have issues with their views on trade policies, fear of growth, their energy policy, and stance on GMOs and alternative medicines.
Fracking I know too little about to have a view on.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 16:46 
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Isn't that lovely?

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The thing is, they are not going to be in power in this election. There is really no way they are going to win 300 odd seats at this election.

So the way I see it, they might get 2-3 voices in a coalition, and be able to nudge a party in a more greeen direction.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 16:51 
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Where Green = fucking stupid.

The Greens are a frankenstein party where their policy is made up (literally) from whoever is willing to flock to their nutty far left banner. If it seems totally incoherent, unrealistic, and blindingly ideological, that's because it is.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 17:01 
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I was pointed to an online definition and summary of Green policies in 2010, where they were described as Watermelons and had to agree (Green on the outside, red on the inside). Their tax manifesto this time around is fucking hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 17:05 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Where Green = fucking stupid.

The Greens are a frankenstein party where their policy is made up (literally) from whoever is willing to flock to their nutty far left banner. If it seems totally incoherent, unrealistic, and blindingly ideological, that's because it is.


That's down to how they are run though isn't it.
Get 4 party member to propose a policy, it then gets voted on at the next party meeting and if over 50% of the delegates think it is a good idea it becomes a policy.

That seems a very reasonable way to run a party to me, it's just a shame that the party members are all crackpots at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 17:21 
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This is the perennial small party problem. They have ideals, but no experience and absolutely no expertise for most policy. So a lot of their 'full government' manifestos are hastily cobbled together guff to create the appearance of credibility and purpose.

This is why I could never vote for any of them. What the fuck do the Greens know about the economy? Who are the powerhouses of industry in their ranks that could confidently assume roles and determine workable policy? It's sure as shit not 'Hi I've buh-buh-been in the NUS burrrrgh' candidate above.

Even the Lib Dems have had to accept a harsh dose of humble pie. It wasn't that long ago that Vince Cable was being upheld as some kind of fucking economic demigod. Then he actually got into a position of power and turned in to just another politician that couldn't keep to promises. As it turns out you can't just make an ideological belief work in the face of grown-up reality. Now the Lib Dems are absolutely nowhere because their supporters feel betrayed. Idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 18:42 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I was pointed to an online definition and summary of Green policies in 2010, where they were described as Watermelons and had to agree (Green on the outside, red on the inside). Their tax manifesto this time around is fucking hilarious.


I'm sorry, but anyone voting Green after that interview whats-her-name gave the other week really does need to have a quiet word with his or herself in my view. I mean, there surely can't be any other applicable descriptor for their policies and party than "batshit insane", even by this fine forum's esteemed political standards?

I've heard of milk and honey economics/politics, but that's got three michelin fucking stars.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 19:26 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I'd rather what she did, than just blindly repeating the same non-answer over and over again. Ala Osborne on Andrew Marr the other day

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 19:53 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I agree with something like 55% of the Green Party policies according to the vote4policies website

That's motre than I agree with any of the other policies...

I don't think that Natalie Bennett is the best leader of the Green Party. But I also don't think that matters too much to me. Like I said she's not going to be pm any time, but she might get some good (in my eyes) policies implemented as part of a coalition.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 20:59 

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Labour have had a 35% policy for some time, in other words if they get 35% of the vote, they'll win. Most poll of polls have them at 34% dead heat with Conservative, but due to electoral anomalies, given the same number of votes, Labour will be ahead. If there wasn't the rise of the SNP in Scotland (predicted to get 50 seats) they'd easily win.

Seen reports that privately Conservatives know they cant win in 2015. Even throwing last ditch promises like no rise in train travel, inheritance tax and the other new announcements lately (unfunded and likely to be ditched in a Coalition agreement)


I think that how people will vote will largely depend on how much austerity they have been affected by in the past 5 years. Some 50-ish guy on the BBC news channel had to admit he hadn't been affected at all. I'm not lying or being biased by saying he will be voting Conservative.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 22:13 
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The tories are freezing train prices?!

Hmm.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 22:35 
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And you did call him a Tory chap earlier, and not a Tory cunt. You might be more sympathetic than you think.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 22:43 
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Grim... wrote:
The tories are freezing train prices?!

Hmm.


Reports are coming in that the Cons know they're going to lose and so they're coming up with bullshit policies that they know they won't implement if they go into coalition.

I read it on a website so it must be true.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 22:51 

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All parties manifestos now contain policies they know they cant implement. If we see any new ones in the next 13 days, they'll be acts of desperation.

I wonder how many people think the £12 billion welfare saving the Conservatives plan to impose will be implemented fairly. :facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 22:54 
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That does sound pretty desperate. And ironic that the Tories would start meddling in the minutiae of a fucking privatised industry.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 23:01 

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Incidentally I know some members seem to think the way to win an argument is to call the other person a "cunt" which is why this forum lost its way from its original title "Be Excellent to each other" some years back. However, that being said I dont agree with ALL the policies of any one party, I even like one policy of the Conservatives, to get a vote in the referendum that they've promised in 2017 (although we have been promised one before)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... endum.html

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 23:25 
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No one thinks you win an argument by calling someone a cunt; you do that if don't respect the person you're dealing with and so you don't think they're worth wasting an actual argument on.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 23:32 

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Bamba wrote:
No one thinks you win an argument by calling someone a cunt; you do that if don't respect the person you're dealing with and so you don't think they're worth wasting an actual argument on.



You never do that.

I suspect some of the people left on this forum are those that would be banned from anywhere else. If so this forum name is a polar opposite to what it was envisioned in 2008.

You ever see people behaving this way on

Daily Politics
Newsnight
Question Time

No.

In two weeks time, we will have a new parliament and a lot of the old faces will disappear. Hague is on QT at the moment, good to see he is standing down.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 23:50 
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Cobracure wrote:
You never do that.


Except that people do, as you yourself brought up. I'm not saying it's right, but it's what happens. And frankly I understand it as a reaction in some cases. It's also rather pointless comparing conversation here to any national televised dialogue because by definition the people involved at that level couldn't do their job if they gave in to that temptation whereas no such pressure exists here; but if you think, say, Miliband hasn't ever really, really wanted to call Cameron a fuck hole (and been justified doing so) then your faith in humanity is laudable but naive.


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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 0:01 
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Cobracure wrote:
Bamba wrote:
No one thinks you win an argument by calling someone a cunt; you do that if don't respect the person you're dealing with and so you don't think they're worth wasting an actual argument on.



You never do that.

I suspect some of the people left on this forum are those that would be banned from anywhere else. If so this forum name is a polar opposite to what it was envisioned in 2008.

You ever see people behaving this way on

Daily Politics
Newsnight
Question Time

No.

In two weeks time, we will have a new parliament and a lot of the old faces will disappear. Hague is on QT at the moment, good to see he is standing down.


Not being funny, but didn't you yourself say "everyone who votes Tory is a self serving cunt" a couple of pages back? Glass houses and all that; very moderate I'm sure. You've got some brass neck! You're far from the only one though.

No offence, but I wish you kids would leave the serious political discussion to the grown ups? I said as much in my own political thread a few months back, for all the good it did (ie none). Fat chance, eh? :(

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 0:11 
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Legendary Boogeyman

Joined: 22nd Dec, 2010
Posts: 8175
Certainly my increased used of the F-word and general harshening of my tone is quite because I can't be arsed to pick apart the minute faults of a given political party when those here that disagree won't be convinced anyway. Cavey can attest to expending a huge amount of genuine effort trying to reasonably debate the various merits of the Conservative party, with plenty of concessions and attempts to meet in the middle, only to be met with obstinate rejection of the civilised discussion.

If I was on Newsnight, not that I ever would be, obviously I wouldn't call the SNP a bunch of pug-faced fucksticks, but since I'm only posting here what's the point in breaking it down to anything else? Half of the charming people here allege to have me on ignore anyway.

Pretty sure I haven't called anyone a cunt mind you. A fruitcake, a prick, a wee-dick nationalist twat perhaps, and I've probably told people to go fuck themselves a few times. But not a cunt. Come on now. There's just no need.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 0:24 
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Joined: 22nd Dec, 2010
Posts: 8175
Saturnalian wrote:
It didn't really need a graph for the VAT increase though, did it?

And since it was desperate to try to say they've broken the promise on full-employment, when unemployment is actually at its lowest levels for years, the best they can do is show a graph of zero-hour contracts. This is working off the lazy assumption that these are evil and have no place at all, which is a matter of considerable debate.

The whole piece is contrived bollocks. The bit on immigration isn't as simple as a promise broken and is in part related to the ongoing Europe question and matters of free movement. But that's an inconvenient fact of reality that gets in the way of the TORIES EVIL narrative.

Here's a more interesting chart on that subject:

Image

Just FYI that green line is one the government has absolutely no power to do anything about.

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 Post subject: Re: General Election 2015
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 0:33 
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Joined: 25th Jul, 2010
Posts: 11128
If you genuinely don't want to offend people then patronisingly calling them 'kids' in comparison to your self described 'grown ups' is a guaranteed way to fail by the way. If really you just wanted to angrily slag off people who can't be bothered dealing reasonably with you any more perhaps you could be more honest about it?


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