Be Excellent To Each Other

Steel Cage Match

They should use 'Just a Minute' rules, with Nicolas Parsons as host.

To be honest, I don't know if I want to watch it or not. I cna just foresee the minor parties ganging up on Cameron and Miliband without their own policies facing the same kind of scrutiny (I'd love to hear the SNP's take on how to handle Russia, for instance). But then, silly me for thinking that a debate should be about an exchange of ideas rather than pithy catchphrases. We shall see.

Also, it's amusing that us English speakers refer to Plaid Cymru as simply 'Party'.

We were at a wedding in North Wales and we're standing by the bar. My mate pointed to the Brain's beer slogan ("We put the ale in Wales") and remarked that ale might be "ymru" in Welsh. the barman overheard us and we got really shitty service for the rest of the evening.

Even the people in the shops treated us poorly.

North Wales: Funny coves

I agree with Kern.

Regional tv should do regional parties.

National TV should do the big 3.

And the Lib Dems.

It's useful to a voter to know how the minor parties might behave in a hung parliament, which promises are sacrosanct and which are up for negotiation (although they'd never fully declare their hand like that). Doubt very much that would be on the agenda though.

Wow. Maybe it wasn't that, then.

Sadly, I don't think it's the term for beer though. That's just 'beer', spoken slowly and loudly.

'bwr' isn't it? Pronounced 'beer'

Just under an hour for the 7 way leaders debate on ITV.

Could be entertaining, could be a mess, could be a boreathon or a mix of all 3.

God this is a shambles. The person umpiring couldn't be more ineffectual.

As much as I dislike her politics, Nicola Sturgeon is the clear winner so far.

Ed did OK on his own last time, but he's coming off badly now there are 6 people to compare to. Utter div.

Clegg is good as ever.

Cameron isn't coming off well.

Garage is shown up for the shallow, fact free twat he is.

I thought the Green lady was sounding quite sane and reasonable, and Nigel Farage was being a cock as usual, but the total lack of control meant I switched off.

The green and plaid cymru leaders both sound sane. At least.

Christ Ed has lost me entirely.

Oooooooh! Using the dead disabled kid again!!!!!

The democratic engagement here is awesome.

Amazing how people can see the same thing different ways. Sturgeon is a sneering muppet whose only trick is ranting at Cameron and decrying the Tories while churning out political banalities of no substance. I've no doubts the Nats will be wanking off to pictures of wee Jimmy Krankie in celebration.

You might think Farage is a twat but I've always thought he's the better orator of any of them and speaks far more naturally than anyone else. The rest appear to be trying to read variations of their pre-prepared statements.

Clegg was actually doing a strong, fine job, and it's a shame the Lib Dems are hopelessly downtrodden at this point. I might have voted for them, once.

I'm watching an hour behind, farage is a cunt. He can talk well, but he is still a cunt. Why do we spend money to help foreigners? Because of basic human compassion. Why do we treat people with HIV? Because it's the right thing to do.

I can't think of anything less relevant than Plaid Cymru 'The Party of Wales' (for the avoidance of doubt). Derp derp derp IN THE VALLEYS.

Plaid woman is an empty seat.
Green is terrible at speaking, so can't get any traction.
Cameron is just attacking the Labour of 5 years ago.
Ed is just freaking me the fuck out, stop addressing every answer to the camera.
Sturgeon is doing OKish, but is irrelevant to me.
Clegg is also talking reasonably well, but us tarred with hanging on the coat tails of Cameron, so his arguments get shot down too easily.

Well I thought that went well, no obvious clangers from any politician.


For me the most important points are the 2 Farage made.

National Debt is now double at £1,500,000,000 what it was in 2010 with no sign of getting under control.
Immigration is 10x the amount per year it was in the 80s and 90s (when it wasnt an issue) 30,000 vs 300,000.

I think you know how I'll vote.

Really? Your response to her is to slag off her appearance?

Stay classy, Gnomes.



Yes, because he empirically is.



So did Hitler, of course.



I agree he was, and I would vote for his lot again if they had a chance of getting rid of the Tory cunt in our constituency.

UKIP?

The fact she looks like a pinched arsehole is entirely secondary to the fact she's the head of an embittered, small-minded demagogic political party that can't see beyond its own selfishness within Scottish borders. It was the most hilarious irony when she said in respect to Cameron renegotiating Europe, that we shouldn't 'threaten to leave like a petulant child if we don't get our own way'. I nearly spat up my drink.

Yes yes you hate Farage. Where's Gaywood's fucking link to that Hilter logical fallacy thing?

'Tory cunt', and you're schooling me on staying classy.

Well. theres still over a month to go. I think the National Debt is the elephant in the room, although the defecit being slowly reduced is welcome, more needs to be done.

I dislike the Nats as much as you do, dude, as you may recall from many conversations on here on the matter, but that doesn't mean I can't watch someone perform in a debate and judge them on what they say and how they say it,rather than just going "AAAAH, SHORT NAT WITH A FUNNY FACE AND WAAAH". It's just misogynistic bollocks and undermines any point you might have.



It's not a logical fallacy when it's an apposite analogy. He's a nasty, small minded, evil cunt. If his comments on "forrins with HIV" didn't make that point to you, nothing short of him pissing on some poor people will.


He's a Tory isn't he?

The fact you think that passing comment on someone's politics is comparable to slagging their face is telling, Gnomes.

You realise they have no real plan to reduce it, right?

Well that's interesting and highly credible aspersion to cast. I hate Nicola Sturgeon, and think she's fucking ugly and a crap politician that appeals to emotion, but the fact she's a woman has nothing to fucking do with it. Standard reductionist argumentation with no merit at all. If I was decrying Alex Salmond for being a fucking ugly chip-eating gurning bastard in exactly the same way, you wouldn't try to call me a misandrist would you? What utter fucking shit. Fuck you, seriously.


And on that merit, you can at least credit Farage with having put in a stonking performance by all measures, but instead you liken him to Hitler.

Completely inconsistent, and hypocritical.

Here's to hoping Cavey breaks his silence because I'd quite like to read something that wasn't completely up its own arse.

bizarrely you didn't pass comment on anyone else's appearance though, did you? I wonder why that was.



Only if he actually had put in a stonking performance and I'd then just gone "Farage is an ugly cunt! BWAHAHA". I also didn't compare him with Hitler, I made the point (and I'm sure you understood this) that someone can be a brilliant orator (which he bloody isn't) and still be an evil cunt. You appeared to be praising his clarity of communication without actually addressing the fact that what he was communicating was utter bile.

Your logic is utterly fucking broken.



Yes, you are.


Me too.

Just remember you made this personal first. Which is, again, fucking telling.

For the privately-schooled millionaire ex-banker who has somehow positioned himself as a political outsider?

The point about HIV is clever because its an emotive issue (in politics?! Say it's not so!). The idea that someone could be suffering and we, as a country, tell them to fuck off and die is obviously a horrible contemplation. If you frame it like that then obviously the only answer is to treat them in a humane and dignified manner with the very best our national health service has to offer.

The fundamental point, which is so fucking obvious that it's stunning that anyone could miss it, is that it sets a precedent that means that anyone, anywhere, with any disease can come to the UK and be treated for free if they can just get over the border. They haven't paid for it - we have. You might say that's fine, because their need is greater than the financial concern, but that's just belmingly short-sighted because the NHS, with the best will in the world, cannot treat the whole fucking world. Against a backdrop of a tight economy and constant NHS funding concerns, it's downright irresponsible to say that treating anyone with no kind of restriction is fine and sustainable, because obviously it's not. It's just another example where the left want everything they want but don't actually stop to consider the practicalities of finite resources that are not powered by idealism alone.

But yeah, much better to just say that Farage is a cunt that wants people to die because that's a lot snappier. Bra-fucking-vo.

Yeah, that was the point.

Wow.

More importantly though, why are the BBC still giving money to Andrew Neill.

Because I don't consider anyone else to be approaching the sheer level of uglyness that she represents, and hey, I fucking hate the Greens too.



Hahaha, you give yourself away here. For WHATEVER you think of Farage you cannot question his ability as an orator. But you do because you hate him.

At best you're no better than me, but exist in the delusion that you are. Except I'm not calling you a mysogynist - just an idiot.

(Although, fucking hell, Comical's signature )

The fact you think you can call someone a cunt based on their party alone says more than enough.

The thing I find funny about you is that you talk in absolutes with no appreciation that opinions are relative. For you, Farage is absolutely evil, Hitler, and apparently a bad orator.

I think Sturgeon is an emotive, selfish moron that offered nothing to the debate and took the standard SNP tactic of lambasting the Tories for being The Evils. I also think Farage made a couple of valid points, and speaks well. I'd never vote for him in a million years, but I can say that very easily. You absolutely hate him and can't admit anything to his favour.

Now, you can say the same about me and Sturgeon, and then what you have there are two opinions. Merit is entirely subjective, except that you think you're right, and the best way you think to shut me down is to try to cast some misogynistic aspersion against me as you clearly think that's the winner. The very worst I did in my original post is liken her to Jimmy Krankie, and the likeness is fucking astonishing as far as I'm concerned, yet in no way means I hate women (as you were trying to make out). Meanwhile calling people cunts, twats, and Hitler is so much more credible because that's not based on looks - just an incoherent personal hatred that will concede nothing in any regard.

I agree, you've got me there.

Serious question, are there enough active users left in this forum that aren't on ignore lists to necessitate any kind of post-modding at all?

People complain, I make blue text.

Really? Because his ability as an orator is an objective truth is it? It's not just because some people's bar is set so fucking low that they think his pub bore dog whistle bollocks is great oratory?

Mod please help Chris with italics. His point is even weaker without the emphasis.

Ahhahahahah.

Christ.

Anyway belm-merchant , I'm going back to playing my card game and we can argue more about this some other time. Suffice to say we disagree.

Yes, because unlike me you're all about the shades of grey and the nuance, aren't you?

Amazingly, if you read what I've been talking about in this very thread you'll see that I've had my opinion of, for example, Ed Milliband and Nicola Sturgeon (who i previously disliked due to the Nat bollocks she came out with) swayed somewhat on the basis of stuff that's actually happened, both for the worse and the better. I cant say the same about you. You're not the most introspective or self reflective of people when it comes to politics. You are, funnily enough, an awful lot like Stu Campbell in that respect

Cavey, for all my disagreements with him, is someone who can admit when he's wrong, when he's gone too far, and will be gracious when you change your mind and agree with him. You're very bulheaded, chap.



In what way does that reflect well on you and poorly on me?



Well, yes indeed.



Yes, so very, very many men have their appearance singled out as the main thing to comment on, whereas that almost never happens with women. Clearly.

Come on. It's cheap and unnecessary. Appearance is something that neither can be changed nor matters. Unlike a politician's cuntitude.



It would only be incoherent if describing them as twats and cunts wasn't based on their actions (which are those of cunts and twats). Also, once again, I did not describe Farage as Hitler, merely pointed out that someone being a good orator is not an inherent moral positive, by way of a comparison with someone else who was considered to be one. I appreciate you have a limited mental armoury to work with on this, but making shit up is beneath even you, surely? I know you've got an axe to grind when it comes to politics and the Nats in particular, but is "winning" an argument really that important?

Love you too, duder. xxx

I thought Greens, Lib Dems and SNP did really well in that debate. And UKIP sounded good if you were not critically thinking

Malc

Oh look now, don't try to tempt me with your internally inconsistent nonsense where I have to point out how I wasn't talking about oratory being a 'moral positive' and other self-evident facts. Pcht!

Oh so I exaggerated slightly. From your example I thought that was allowed in order to make a point?

Oh is that what we're doing now? In that case when I call Nicola Sturgeon an ugly fug (which is, again, secondary to the horror of SNP politics), I'm just exaggerating a little. For the record I also called Alex Salmond a fat quintuple-chinned toad too. Again, totally by-the-by. I can't think of a single point made by Sturge that isn't the standard yawnsville of generic anti-Tory crowd-pleasing nonsense. It's the kind of guff I hear every day up here to the approbating roar of the SNP-faithful, I so appreciate it might be more of a novelty for you.

Fair dos.

By comparison, despite having heard shit loads from her on the radio before, and disliking her intensely (as she appeared to be a mini Salmond), I thought Sturgeon came across well, actually managed to get some decent coherent points across (unlike Ed, notably), and scored more points off Cameron than either Ed, Farage or Clegg, which was sort of the point of them all being there. But as you say, that's just subjective opinions.

I thought Bennett was largely a useless so and so but I can get that opinion across without referring to her appearance, quaintly enough.