Be Excellent To Each Other :: View topic

KovacsC wrote:

flis wrote:

Curiosity wrote:

It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person.

Most people would think you an idiot if you used that as a defence for shooting someone - he got a fine so why don't I? It might bring into question why rich people can get way without going to prison but I don't know how it works. I assume there's more to it than if you can't pay the fine, you go jail.

A fine as an alternative to a custodial sentence is there for a reason, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for it to be implemented in this case but I'm not a judge and I'm not familiar with sentencing procedure in SA.

Also, he can't be deemed as that much of a threat to others, or they'd have remanded him without bail, surely? Is he a straight up bad guy? Obviously the judge doesn't think so if she believes his anxious disposition due to his disability had a part to play, or he'd have been found guilty on a greater charge.

So basically if you are rich you can avoid jail.

Bernie Eccelstone recently did exactly that.

I am sure the fine would cost an arm and a l.... oh wait!

Curiosity wrote:

It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person.

you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

See, this is what happens if you make a distinction between murder with intent and murder. You shoot a gun through a door, you are only trying to do one thing, you may fail or succeed, but a gun is a lethal weapon made for killing people, you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Grim... wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

MaliA wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

Depends how dumb you are or how much you believe movies, I guess.

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

American Nervoso wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

MaliA wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

Isn't that what Pistorius was doing?

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Trooper wrote:

Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later.
I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now...

Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. :facepalm:

Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position.

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Trooper wrote:

Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later.
I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now...

Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. :facepalm:

Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position.

It's back on the market again, the sale fell through

I might call up tomorrow and make an incredibly cheeky offer, you never know!

American Nervoso wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

Bobbyaro wrote:

American Nervoso wrote:

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

It's an interesting philosophical question. Because they don't get banged up once they've killed someone. So can't be murder.

That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.

KovacsC wrote:

That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.

hopefully her helicopter doesn't crash.

... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.

5 years until Blade Runner happens!

Saturnalian wrote:

... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.

Now they have ripped off TheVision's BeeX WeeX!

Those of you who have the pleasure of 'knowing' me on Facebook would have perhaps seen the picture of an old brochure for my university that I shared earlier today. It featured a picture of a certain disgraced Australian celebrity in a promotional context. Much retrospective chuckles were had.

However, the head of marketing just rang me and asked me to round up any remaining copies and burn them, just in case anyone sees it and thinks it's a current document. She was quite serious

It just occurred to me that I'm not Facebook friends with her

Author:	KovacsC [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
DavPaz wrote: KovacsC wrote: flis wrote: Curiosity wrote: It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person. Most people would think you an idiot if you used that as a defence for shooting someone - he got a fine so why don't I? It might bring into question why rich people can get way without going to prison but I don't know how it works. I assume there's more to it than if you can't pay the fine, you go jail. A fine as an alternative to a custodial sentence is there for a reason, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for it to be implemented in this case but I'm not a judge and I'm not familiar with sentencing procedure in SA. Also, he can't be deemed as that much of a threat to others, or they'd have remanded him without bail, surely? Is he a straight up bad guy? Obviously the judge doesn't think so if she believes his anxious disposition due to his disability had a part to play, or he'd have been found guilty on a greater charge. So basically if you are rich you can avoid jail. Bernie Eccelstone recently did exactly that. It is not right.. but I suppose it is the way of the world

Author:	Cras [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
I'd assume any fine would be means tested to avoid exactly that. Then again, South Africa.

Author:	KovacsC [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
I am sure the fine would cost an arm and a l.... oh wait!

Author:	DavPaz [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
KovacsC wrote: I am sure the fine would cost an arm and a l.... oh wait! sigh

Author:	GazChap [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
I'm surprised he got off the murder charge, I didn't think he had a... shoots one-self through bathroom door

Be Excellent To Each Other https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/

B&B 43 https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10103	Page 37 of 60

Author:	myp [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
He was born with a congenital absence of the femur which meant he had to have a double-amputation at the age of 11 months. He doesn't have a leg to stand on! HAHAHA.

Author:	Curiosity [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 13:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
flis wrote: Curiosity wrote: It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person. Most people would think you an idiot if you used that as a defence for shooting someone - he got a fine so why don't I? It might bring into question why rich people can get way without going to prison but I don't know how it works. I assume there's more to it than if you can't pay the fine, you go jail. A fine as an alternative to a custodial sentence is there for a reason, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for it to be implemented in this case but I'm not a judge and I'm not familiar with sentencing procedure in SA. Also, he can't be deemed as that much of a threat to others, or they'd have remanded him without bail, surely? Is he a straight up bad guy? Obviously the judge doesn't think so if she believes his anxious disposition due to his disability had a part to play, or he'd have been found guilty on a greater charge. The disposition appears to be key. The judge said that any reasonable person would have understood that firing four shots through a door could kill the person inside, but concluded that he could not be tried for murder as he could not be shown to have understood that. Ergo, she concludes he's not a reasonable person. Her true decision will really hinge on the sentencing. If she throws ten years at him she's clearly of a mind that he is a reckless danger to society. If he gets a short sentence or a suspended sentence then she is of the belief that he genuinely fucked up in an understandable fashion, given his circumstances, history, etc. The judge seems pretty sensible and clinical, and obviously knows the laws and evidence better than any of us. I'm very interested to see her conclusions.

Author:	myp [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 13:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
I'm seeing too many 'THIS IS NOT JUSTICE FOR REEVA' posts on Facebook today. I'm having to be careful what I say.

Author:	GazChap [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
It's a similar story on the PistonHeads forum, where it seems the braying masses want him to feel the full brunt of the law because he's filthy murdering scum.

Author:	Bobbyaro [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
See, this is what happens if you make a distinction between murder with intent and murder. You shoot a gun through a door, you are only trying to do one thing, you may fail or succeed, but a gun is a lethal weapon made for killing people, you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

Author:	Grim... [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Bobbyaro wrote: you shoot it, you intended to kill someone. Something. But yes.

Author:	GazChap [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Bobbyaro wrote: See, this is what happens if you make a distinction between murder with intent and murder. You shoot a gun through a door, you are only trying to do one thing, you may fail or succeed, but a gun is a lethal weapon made for killing people, you shoot it, you intended to kill someone. It's the self defence angle that fucks about with this though. Even in the UK, technically speaking you could legally shoot a mans to death if it was in self-defence (although I wouldn't fancy your chances of getting off scot-free) If he genuinely thought it was an intruder and feared for his life, it's not murder. Of course, whether his story is genuine or not is another matter.

Author:	Bobbyaro [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

Author:	Grim... [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Author:	flis [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 18:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
The house we made an offer on now has a sold sign outside it... We both looked at each other and had a moment of panic when we realised that meant we're buying a house. That feeling was replaced by happiness pretty quickly though. We still have a lot to do, like get planning permission for all the things we want to change. Before we can live in it comfortably we need a new boiler, and two bedrooms and a shower room in the loft. And then we're going to add an extension on the back, which will have our en-suite and new bedroom (the existing 2nd bedroom becomes a dressing room), and a dining area so we can turn the entire existing kitchen/dining room into just a kitchen. Big plans! As we've managed to buy this house without needing to sell the other one, and we have enough cash left to do the first part of the build so everyone at least has their own room, we can use the money from the house sale to finish everything exactly how we want. I don't know whether I'm more excited for our new kitchen, or our 'master suite'

Author:	MaliA [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 16:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Went to the Christening of the son of one of the NCT group. It was proper good AND there was a bar. Might go over to someone's house later as a party is brewing it seems. Hymns were good as well. No communion though.

Author:	zaphod79 [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
"Saving gamings relics" http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2 ... elics.html

Author:	MaliA [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:15 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Grim... wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)? Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

Author:	Grim... [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
MaliA wrote: Grim... wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)? Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people. Depends how dumb you are or how much you believe movies, I guess.

Author:	MaliA [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Grim... wrote: MaliA wrote: Grim... wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)? Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people. Depends how dumb you are or how much you believe movies, I guess. In law the base line is pretty low.

Author:	myp [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers?

Author:	MaliA [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

Author:	myp [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
MaliA wrote: American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? No, they just defend the established patriarchy. Isn't that what Pistorius was doing?

Author:	MaliA [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
American Nervoso wrote: MaliA wrote: American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? No, they just defend the established patriarchy. Isn't that what Pistorius was doing? To be honest: I haven'the really followed the ins and outs of it save for what Rfour serves me up in the car on my way to and from work. What I have learnt, from this and the goings on in New Or leans, is that twitter seems to be the best place to judge guilt or innocence, and that we in the UK seem to be fascinated with the judicial process in other countries like some weird neo colonialism. The vagaries of the South African legal system aside, and the man on woman violence narrative being spun on it, I still harbour no desire to visit the place.

Author:	GazChap [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 17:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Diplomatic immunity, etc. etc.

Author:	Bobbyaro [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 21:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

Author:	Trooper [ Fri Sep 12, 2014 23:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Trooper wrote: Trooper wrote: Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later. I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now... Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position. It's back on the market again, the sale fell through I might call up tomorrow and make an incredibly cheeky offer, you never know!

Author:	BikNorton [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Grim... wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)? depends, were you shooting at Pistorius?

Author:	Trooper [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Trooper wrote: Trooper wrote: Trooper wrote: Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later. I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now... Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position. It's back on the market again, the sale fell through I might call up tomorrow and make an incredibly cheeky offer, you never know! It turns out the reason it is back on the market is that the previous people wanted 2% off the price and they said no. My 10% off offer didn't go down too well Ah well, look like they will be sitting on the house for a while yet.

Author:	Trooper [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 19:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
We've been out looking at more houses and have found one we like, it's just a matter of seeing what deal we can get. It'll mean a 5 mile trip to the train station each morning which is a bit of a ballache, still if I do it on a pushbike a fair bit then at least I'll get fit.

Author:	Grim... [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 21:25 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Is it near me?

Author:	Trooper [ Sat Sep 13, 2014 22:57 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
It is. Wootton.

Author:	myp [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
Bobbyaro wrote: American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway. It's an interesting philosophical question. Because they don't get banged up once they've killed someone. So can't be murder.

Author:	lasermink [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: American Nervoso wrote: Bobbyaro wrote: yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone. So are soldiers murderers? Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway. It's an interesting philosophical question. Because they don't get banged up once they've killed someone. So can't be murder. It depends quite a lot on whether they fought for the winning side.

Author:	Satsuma [ Sun Sep 14, 2014 22:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.

Author:	nickachu [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 17:41 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
It's starting to get cold up here again now. I'm even getting ill

Author:	KovacsC [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 20:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: B&B 43
That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.