B&B 43

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:40

Saturnalian wrote:

Sorry, about your friend though.

I don't think Dave knew her, she was just a bit of a dozy girl who didn't think before she tweeted about running people over on purpose.

Cavey · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 13:00

Zio wrote:

I just hate all cyclists without exception. Simpler that way.

If I'm being brutally honest with myself? Pretty much :this:

Cyclists these days seem to often have a certain 'holier than though' hautiness about them; as if somehow they're doing ME a favour by dressing up ridiculously, generally getting in the way and making a bloody nuisance of themselves, whilst I drive my evil, planet raping car or motorbike (the latter seems to really piss em off for some reason).

I'm a hedonist petrol head and cyclists are the diametric opposite; their forebears were the sort of people who went on 1950s style camping holidays that involved trudging round everywhere in the rain, morning exercises and eating parsimonious meals from tins. I'm more of a burn rubber, break all the rules, fill your face with all that life has to offer, let rip and snort kinda guy. Cyclists are just so bloody *boring*.

Speaking of which, my head hurts. Hangover rating: 9/10

Malc · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 13:18

I don't know why I am doing this but...

When I used to cycle in London, it was the quickest way to get to Work, it was the cheapest way to get to work and it was the most enjoyable way to get to work. It woke me up, it kept me fit. I didn't do it for any reason other than practical ones.

As an aside, it is also environmentally friendly, doesn't contribute to global warming, or causing other people lung cancer or whatever. It means I didn't have to cram into a sweaty bus or train with hundreds of other people. And the bike cost about the same as what most people pay in a year in car insurance.

Malc

Malc · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 13:20

Thinking about it, as well as being the quickest way to work in London (from Dollis Hill to Liverpool Street - about 9-10 miles) it was the quickest way in Exeter too, which was only about 3 miles.

Malc

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 13:37

It's sure as hell not the quickest way to work for me, given the roads run at 40/50/60mph except when blocked by some goon going at a fraction of that or a train, and there's no realistic public transport either. (I was less than thrilled with the office move that made this a necessity)

Still, it's rather telling that the arguments here are it's not illegal (which, you know, doesn't make it right), other people are arseholes too (which doesn't make it right) and it's tiring to let people past (which is, I'm sure, a good reason for one person to inconvience many hundreds of others, often for long periods... but not in my book, and I struggle to even understand that rather self centred mindset.)

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

I doubt I could ride a bike now, haven't done for years (since I was knocked off mine by another cyclist who went careering into me (at Gladstone Park, Malc)...

I think the thing that makes me nervous about cyclists is that they are so unpredictable. Moreso than car drivers: cars (generally) stick to the road, pedestrians are mostly on pavements but are slow and soft and hopefully have some sense of self-preservation, but on the way to work we often see cyclists in the main flow of traffic who, instead of stopping with that traffic when the lights go red will go staight through, then mount up onto the pavement to bypass other traffic, then will go across a pelican crossing and then rejoin main traffic until the light goes red, then...

I kind of wish there were a few more public service ads about cycle rules do that we all (pedestrians, cyclists and drivers alike) were better able to look out for and be better understanding of riders' actions, because it can be quite nerve-wrecking as a pedestrian when someone suddenly is on the pavement ahead of you.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 15:05

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 15:35

BikNorton wrote:

A decade ago I was staggered by how far everyday driving standards had fallen even in the few years since I passed my test a decade before.

A decade later and I wish driving standards were only as horrifying as they were a decade ago.

Do you think that's a perception thing because you've improved / calmed down, though?

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 17:42

Cavey wrote:

Zio wrote:

I just hate all cyclists without exception. Simpler that way.

If I'm being brutally honest with myself? Pretty much :this:

Cyclists these days seem to often have a certain 'holier than though' hautiness about them; as if somehow they're doing ME a favour by dressing up ridiculously, generally getting in the way and making a bloody nuisance of themselves, whilst I drive my evil, planet raping car or motorbike (the latter seems to really piss em off for some reason).

I'm a hedonist petrol head and cyclists are the diametric opposite; their forebears were the sort of people who went on 1950s style camping holidays that involved trudging round everywhere in the rain, morning exercises and eating parsimonious meals from tins. I'm more of a burn rubber, break all the rules, fill your face with all that life has to offer, let rip and snort kinda guy. Cyclists are just so bloody *boring*.

Speaking of which, my head hurts. Hangover rating: 9/10

Whereas the forebears of all people who have ever driven a car were Nazis.

Sweeping generalisations are fun!

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5157

Mr Dave wrote:

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

So not very closely at all then?
Things that can be mostly automated like tax, insurance and to a lesser extent speeding are enforced, but in terms of driving standards there's very little chance of it being seen by a police officer.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5157

Malc wrote:

I don't know why I am doing this but...

When I used to cycle in London, it was the quickest way to get to Work, it was the cheapest way to get to work and it was the most enjoyable way to get to work. It woke me up, it kept me fit. I didn't do it for any reason other than practical ones.

I cycle in a couple of days a week and while on a good day I can drive the 10 miles there in about 17 minutes, some days it's more like 25.
On the bike it's a mile shorter and I've just managed to get that down to 33 minutes or 37 with a bad head wind so for the sake of an extra hour's commuting I save a fiver in fuel (meh!) but more importantly I get four good rides which is definitely helping my fitness and don't waste my evenings going out for a ride.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 17:59

Mr Dave wrote:

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

How many people driving cars break speed limits? Got to be about 100%, right? 95% minimum.

LOCK THEM ALL UP!

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 18:17

Quote:

Things that can be mostly automated like tax, insurance and to a lesser extent speeding are enforced, but in terms of driving standards there's very little chance of it being seen by a police officer.

But if it is seen, it does tend to be acted upon.

Curiosity wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

How many people driving cars break speed limits? Got to be about 100%, right? 95% minimum.

LOCK THEM ALL UP!

You are aware there's more to policing than jail, right?
For a start off, ensuring someones of a sufficient quality to drive before allowing them to.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10078

Grim... wrote:

BikNorton wrote:

A decade ago I was staggered by how far everyday driving standards had fallen even in the few years since I passed my test a decade before.

A decade later and I wish driving standards were only as horrifying as they were a decade ago.

Do you think that's a perception thing because you've improved / calmed down, though?

nope, it's societal degeneration writ in steel. A lot of drivers seem.to have decided that as cyclists get away without giving.way or stopping they don't need to.either. On top indicating after the fact if at all for movements into gaps that just aren't there. And lane hogging is now the norm, not the exception to be roundly.scorned. I see MORE phone usage since the ban, both held.to ear and lap texting. Handbasket sales are through the roof, and Hell holds the patent.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10078

On the other hand, countries like Italy manage with unending insanity on the roads because *everyone expects it*. It's people like me turning up with all my sane practices that fuck it up. So maybe in a decade it'll be like that and I'll have packed it in or moved to Germany.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 19:21

Mr Dave wrote:

Quote:

Things that can be mostly automated like tax, insurance and to a lesser extent speeding are enforced, but in terms of driving standards there's very little chance of it being seen by a police officer.

But if it is seen, it does tend to be acted upon.

Curiosity wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

How many people driving cars break speed limits? Got to be about 100%, right? 95% minimum.

LOCK THEM ALL UP!

You are aware there's more to policing than jail, right?
For a start off, ensuring someones of a sufficient quality to drive before allowing them to.

Why can't you have sufficient quaility to ride a bike, if you already drive a car?

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 20:29

Kov got a hold of that one.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 20:33

KovacsC wrote:

Why can't you have sufficient quaility to ride a bike, if you already drive a car?

You can ride a bike round at age 8 or whatever. I don't see many car drivers age 8. I also don't see too many cars that drive down busy pavements, jump red lights etc etc.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 20:37

you can't group all cyclists together.. most obey the rules of the road, but put their safety first. The same as car drivers.

If you want to strawman 8 years into it, i doubt they would be on the road anyway.

There are good and bad drivers too..

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 20:46

Mr Dave wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

Why can't you have sufficient quaility to ride a bike, if you already drive a car?

You can ride a bike round at age 8 or whatever. I don't see many car drivers age 8. I also don't see too many cars that drive down busy pavements, jump red lights etc etc.

I don't see any cyclists driving at 80 on the motorway, or 90, or 100, etc. I don't see any cyclists causing multiple deaths by driving badly every day of the year. I don't see any cyclists parking dangerously or illegally on the road.

In short, your point is ridiculous.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49232

And you fight like a cow.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38464

Cras wrote:

And you fight like a cow.

I am rubber, you are glue

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

Curiosity wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

Why can't you have sufficient quaility to ride a bike, if you already drive a car?

You can ride a bike round at age 8 or whatever. I don't see many car drivers age 8. I also don't see too many cars that drive down busy pavements, jump red lights etc etc.

I don't see any cyclists driving at 80 on the motorway, or 90, or 100, etc. I don't see any cyclists causing multiple deaths by driving badly every day of the year. I don't see any cyclists parking dangerously or illegally on the road.

In short, your point is ridiculous.

I'm not sure the argument "yeah, but you are a cunt too" is a good justification, to be honest.

Malc · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 22:12

I think the point is: "You should be more annoyed at the drivers who cause you to be stuck in a 5 mile tailback because of some crash caused by an illegal act and not some cyclist cycling slowly up hill in a completly legal, yet annoying fashion."

Malc

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

Cyclists: At least they aren't horse riders.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

Malc wrote:

I think the point is: "You should be more annoyed at the drivers who cause you to be stuck in a 5 mile tailback because of some crash caused by an illegal act and not some cyclist cycling slowly up hill in a completly legal, yet annoying fashion."

Malc

I think the point is, you can be annoyed by more than one thing at once.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 22:52

Trooper wrote:

Malc wrote:

I think the point is: "You should be more annoyed at the drivers who cause you to be stuck in a 5 mile tailback because of some crash caused by an illegal act and not some cyclist cycling slowly up hill in a completly legal, yet annoying fashion."

Malc

I think the point is, you can be annoyed by more than one thing at once.

Yes, obviously this.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38464

2 whole days. 2 whole days on cyclists.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Jul 26, 2014 23:52

I spent 2 whole days on your mum.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22270

Grim... wrote:

I spent 2 whole days on your mum.

And you went so slow that you held up the queue, you selfish bastard.

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:39

Trooper wrote:

Grim... wrote:

I spent 2 whole days on your mum.

And you went so slow that you held up the queue, you selfish bastard.

To be fair there was a lot of 'debris'.

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:43

Pundabaya wrote:

Cyclists: At least they aren't horse riders.

So true. That's like comparing an irritating, tiresome cold that refuses to budge for weeks, with pneumonia.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:42

Cavey wrote:

Pundabaya wrote:

Cyclists: At least they aren't horse riders.

So true. That's like comparing an irritating, tiresome cold that refuses to budge for weeks, with pneumonia.

Or motorcyclists! They're the worst!

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

I'm kidding!

Malc · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:49

Motorbikes are indeed the worse, speeding at 100mph+ down the motoway or a-roads, making lots of noise on quiet country roads, weaving in and out of traffic lanes, pulling wheelies all over the place. Crashing and dying when it even looks like rain. Arseholes the lot.

Malc

MaliA · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:04

I dunno, with Mr Dave not wanting cyclist on arterial roads (although he's labouring the point that Box Hill is any form of challenge, even Cavendish has ridden over it), and the Cavester not wanting cyclist on country roads, it's a bit of a problem. Looks like the best solution is to close roads on rotation every weekend, so people can recreationally cycle and maybe have a bit of one way road with no cyclists for the cars to go around. Large, grassy open space for horses, too. And Mr Dave to get a job where he can work from home.

maliA: Your candidate for a better tomorrow.

krazywookie · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:17

MaliA for patrician! (of England) *frantically votes yes*

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:41

Curiosity wrote:

Or motorcyclists! They're the worst!

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

I'm kidding!

Hmph! Motorcyclists are the kings of the road; they're the grownup version of what every mere cyclists aspires to me, yet tragically fails because that would involve spending money and being an adverturous, fun-loving chap or chappess, as opposed to some puritanical "make do and mend" 1950s style throwback.

I am also kidding of course mate (

), yet there's a grain of seriousness amongst all the silliness. I love all animals especially horses, but they are great, slow, lumbering beasts with a propensity to emit great piles of very slippery dung right in the middle of the roads they use (and usually at blind corners precisely where the front wheel of some hapless motorcylist will happen upon it).

As for cyclists, I personally hanker after "the good old days" when it was just a mundane mode of transport for kids and skint adults (and they went about their business perfectly unobtrusively and without causing anyone any problems), as opposed to the luridly dressed, boorish, red light hopping, car scraping idiot-brigade who seem to regard it as some kind of lifestyle choice and that they're somehow above mere traffic laws, giving normal, perfectly reasonable cyclists a bad name.

Mimi is right in my view; what's needed is a big clampdown on those cyclists who DO think they can act with total selfishness and impunity, making a damn nuisance of themselves and causing danger to them and other road users. Jump a red light? Should be £60 and 3 penalty points just as for any car driver or motorcyclist. Start doing that and the practice would soon stop. If I can't do this on a 50cc moped, why should I be able to do it on a pushbike that's just as fast?

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:45

Malc wrote:

Motorbikes are indeed the worse, speeding at 100mph+ down the motoway or a-roads, making lots of noise on quiet country roads, weaving in and out of traffic lanes, pulling wheelies all over the place. Crashing and dying when it even looks like rain. Arseholes the lot.

Malc

Nah, I only tend to do 90mph on my Hog; anything over a ton gets a bit hectic. Does make an awful lot of noise though; an angry twist of the right hand with the clutch pulled in sends a cloud of cyclists impeding my path scattering to the kerb in startlement at the ensuing ~130dB ear-splitting roar and deafening in-pipe unused fuel detonations which sound like explosions, because that's basically what they are, with flames shooting from the custom, big bore TAB cans with every last bit of baffling removed (always a pleasure). Gotta love super-high octane fuel, right Malc?

My old Speed Triple was awesome for wheelies though.

MaliA · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:48

Stinkpants has been working on her novel, or trying to send a message to the mothership:

Quote:

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MaliA · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:13

Some louts, top of Park Rash and a Quiet lane.

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:22

MaliA wrote:

Some louts, top of Park Rash and a Quiet lane.

Awesome pics Mali. All that's needed is a KTM 660.

MaliA · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:49

Cavey wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Some louts, top of Park Rash and a Quiet lane.

Awesome pics Mali. All that's needed is a KTM 660.

Thanks, although I'd love to know what I'm advertising on my chest.That's the Cam Gill Road out of Kettlewell*. As we cycled along it, lots of cyclists coming the other way were wishing us luck and calling us a little mad. We weren't quite sure why. "Jesus fuck" were the first words I used when I saw where the road went. That was an ace day out in the Dales, mind you. route available on request.

*"The first and most obvious act of cowardice in Tour de France 2014 stage one will happen in Wharfedale, when the peloton sweeps over the bridge at Kettlewell. At this point any self-respecting cyclist turns right up Cam Gill Road for the brutal masterpiece known to cyclists as Park Rash (bit.ly/1nmoTjU), a climb of 303m in little more than 2km.

Outsiders could be tempted to think that here is a neat short-cut to catching the Tour in two places – Kettlewell then Middleham. But take care: this is a monster. You would be well-advised to stop in Kettlewell for a final espresso with lots of sugar before continuing. A short, nasty hill gives a mere taste of pleasures to come, then you see the valley end in a vertical cliff, up which some idiot has built a tarmac road at gradients that officially hit 25% but seem steeper."

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 13:22

Meh. To be fair the aforementioned posts were to wind Malc and Curio up

but to be actually serious, that just looks, and sounds, utterly awesome.

I'd love to have a go on a £4000 bike; my son-in-law's a keen cyclist and is looking to spend an unfeasible amount of cash on his next steed. I myself am moving office out of Manchester to Knutsford, and this will mean I'm in "cycling range"... I can get an aces bike tax-free on that scheme people talk about so, poacher-turned-gamekeeper, I'll be getting my fat arse on a pushbike saddle soon! I refuse to wear lycra though...

Thank goodness Wullie's gone quiet else he would've had my man-vegetables for garters by now in this thread.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11843

Can we dump all this cycling bullshit in its own thread. There are few enough threads on this forum without self-righteous political bullshit already, turning B&B into this politicised cycling crap is just about enough. Mr dave is correct, cycling on a major road and holding up traffic is a bad thing, but only if there are cycle routes. Otherwise it is a valid use of the road, and car drivers do not have right of way over a bike, simply because it is going slower than the speed limit .

Cavey · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 13:53

Bobbyaro wrote:

Can we dump all this cycling bullshit in its own thread. There are few enough threads on this forum without self-righteous political bullshit already, turning B&B into this politicised cycling crap is just about enough. Mr dave is correct, cycling on a major road and holding up traffic is a bad thing, but only if there are cycle routes. Otherwise it is a valid use of the road, and car drivers do not have right of way over a bike, simply because it is going slower than the speed limit .

Yeah charming. No-one's even mentioned or remotely alluded to politics, not once, so I'm afraid that's all in your head. You think cycling in the middle of a busy road is "valid use of the road", but others disagree with your opinion, which is far from indisputable fact. We don't all have to agree with you on pain of being booed out of this, or any other thread here. So deal with it.

Don't worry I've finished my bit of work and am going out, so you can have B&B all to yourself. I wait with baited breath for the witty, apolitical gems of wisdom and discussion that you'll doubtless initiate and sustain...

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

MaliA wrote:

Cavey wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Some louts, top of Park Rash and a Quiet lane.

Awesome pics Mali. All that's needed is a KTM 660.

Thanks, although I'd love to know what I'm advertising on my chest.

It's probably not advertising, but a slogan along the lines of "Keep calm and go fuck yourselves, motorists."

Warhead · Noob as of 6/8/10

Malc wrote:

I don't know why I am doing this but...

When I used to cycle in London, it was the quickest way to get to Work, ..........

And possibly the most dangerous. I did a week of project work in London a few months ago, doing network migrations in a well known chain of phone shops. I had up to 4 shops to visit each day and it was like the Wild West a lot of the time .... or Italy. Cyclists and moped riders were the worst, they seemed to have no sense of danger and there was a disproportionately high number of them compared to most cities in which I've worked. Scared the crap out of me.

Aeons ago, I cycled to work for around 30 years in Manchester, and only got knocked off twice, though there were many near misses. And I took my cycling proficiency test when I was about 10, so maybe that got me into good habits early on.

Perhaps part of the problem with cyclists is that they don't have to take any kind of test, anyone can buy a bike and go straight on the road, and if they aren't also car drivers, maybe they don't understand how much of a hazard they are to motorists.

Like a number of people here, I've been both a car driver and cyclist, and have seen dangerous behaviour from both, as well as motorcyclists and pedestrians, so I think Rule 1 should be applicable for everyone.

As to why motorists hate cyclists, quite apart from when they break Rule 1, there's an interesting piece on the Beeb about the psychology behind it.

Kern · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 22:17

Cavey wrote:

I wait with baited breath for the witty, apolitical gems of wisdom and discussion that you'll doubtless initiate and sustain...

I recently read that there are only 4 escalators in the whole state of Wyoming. I asked a friend who lives out there if this was so, as I really want it to be true. He said that he couldn't think of any, but would keep count for me.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25594

Your friend is amazing.

Grim... · **Posted:** Sun Jul 27, 2014 23:09

Mimi wrote:

Your friend is amazing.

I'm not convinced counting to for is that big of a deal, Meems.

Be Excellent To Each Other

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