Be Excellent To Each Other

I'm backing mr. Dave, if I ever have traffic behind me, whether I be driving a car, riding a bike or herding buffaloes astride a sluggish unicorn, I will always pull in and let anything behind me pass as early as is physically possible. This makes me think that people who don't do this are arseholes. Why would you not?

In other news, I'm now going to a restaurant to eat spensive food and drink spensive wine all funded by an über rich (and German) count who will quiz me about why I haven't drawn out full, colour coded wiring diagrams for a car with 4 ECMs that someone else built. Also, I think I might be underdressed. And its 26 degrees out. And fuck off! Its too hot for this shit.

I would, but I would say I was an above average cyclist. There are plenty of cyclists who are not as confident who might not want to risk it. Also (and this is all I am really saying) there is no obligation for them to do so. There are loads of selfish (or even just self centred) people in the world. loads of them of drivers, some of them are cyclists, some of them are pedestrians.

There are plenty of people driving cars, that could let someout of a side road, but don't. That could let someone merge but don't, or will drive down the righthand lane with no traffic in, only to merge back into the left lane ahead of about 20 cars. All of these things are just as bad (if not worse as they are often done at speeds far greater than a cyclist can manage)

The fact of the matter is the average cyclist is more exposed, less well protected, less well equiped, less powerful, and is usually outnumbered. A cyclist who slows down is going to take longer to recover their speed than a car that slows down. A cyclists tyres are much thiner (and has fewer of them) than a car. They are harder to see, they have less powerful lights, they are easier to damage.

An analogy I have just come up with (so probably worse then most analogies) is that of Mr Creosote complaining about some kid eating the last of the bread sticks.

Malc

Inexperienced cyclists don't tend to make themselves hard to pass. (For a start, they'd not be fit enough to even climb the aforementioned hill, among other tendencies) That's not what I'm talking about.

And you know "Group a has some arseholes" still doesn't excuse the people from group B from being arseholes.

I have found a nearby sweet shop that sells salmiakki, so stocked up on a few varieties.

he also had a really milk salmiakki, which usually I would not like as I prefer the really astringent tasting ones that almost give you a thirst, but this one also has raspberry. It's strange, but almost like dessert.

Anyway, I just wish that all road users, whether they be on foot, on a bicycle or in a car/lorry/any other vehicle would just be more aware of those around them and use that as the basis of their consideration for others. That really goes for people in high streets and supermarkets, too. I often wonder if I am invisible the number of people who don't see me and knock me around

The man at the hospital said I have allergic rhinitis and avoidance is the best remedy.

Yeah, I expect great success in avoiding GRASS, for fuck's sake.

Actually, they don't have grass in Japan and I felt awesome there.

It's why they are all so uptight.

I get allergic rhinitis from some red wine.

I have had that all my life. It is a bitch.

Yeah me too. And some types of beer

At least the remedy for that is some /more/ red wine.

Ok, so questions, based on situations I've seen over the last week...

1) You're on a bike. On a major A road with a 50 limit. There's a cycle lane which is usable, or indeed over the other side of the road an entire dedicated cycle path... Do you cycle on the main road?
2) You've just gone round a corner and the road splits into two lanes and then into three. You want to take the left lane and turn left. When going round the corner, do you block both lanes?
3) You're going down a road, with a long line of traffic behind you. The road widens such that cars can overtake you. Do you allow that or move over to block them?
4) You're a pedestrian, you're going up a hill with no pavement. Therefore on the road. When a car comes do you walk in the center of the road, as is your right, or get out of the way?

You know very well what the reasonable answers are to all those questions. I could give you at least twice as many examples of down right dangerous driving I've seen this week. But even if a pedestrian or cyclist is acting inconsiderate or putting themselves in danger the motorist should at all times be the bigger man and take all reasonable action to avoid an accident. It's just sensible.

And the person who was at the beginning of this conversation. Did they actually cause an accident or just vent?

Because, you know, you're allowed to vent about arseholes being arseholes. I generally don't, until the point at which they start wasting a significant chunk of my day deliberately.

A decade ago I was staggered by how far everyday driving standards had fallen even in the few years since I passed my test a decade before.

A decade later and I wish driving standards were only as horrifying as they were a decade ago.

Which makes the kinds of.suicidal antics cyclists get up to* all the more Darwin Awardsian.

There's no finger to point at any one group here, just a Python foot to.crush us all.

It's depressing, it really is.

* while ignoring the cycle paths around Trafford park which are actually.the best option of the three.

You started this? For shame. Vent all you like, of course, but people may also have, and are entitled to, an alternative perspective.

Anyway, go get the DLC for Dark Souls 2. It's the tits!

No. I sympathised with the person who vented on twitter and proceeded to get harangued for it and people try to get her fired.

I missed all that - I thought it was just a general grumble. Sorry, about your friend though. What was the complaint "brining the company into disrepute" or something; like people suddenly aren't entitled to their own opinions outside work in this new era of social media.

I just hate all cyclists without exception. Simpler that way. I used to have a bicycle myself, but I hated myself the whole time I was on it.

I don't think Dave knew her, she was just a bit of a dozy girl who didn't think before she tweeted about running people over on purpose.

If I'm being brutally honest with myself? Pretty much

Cyclists these days seem to often have a certain 'holier than though' hautiness about them; as if somehow they're doing ME a favour by dressing up ridiculously, generally getting in the way and making a bloody nuisance of themselves, whilst I drive my evil, planet raping car or motorbike (the latter seems to really piss em off for some reason).

I'm a hedonist petrol head and cyclists are the diametric opposite; their forebears were the sort of people who went on 1950s style camping holidays that involved trudging round everywhere in the rain, morning exercises and eating parsimonious meals from tins. I'm more of a burn rubber, break all the rules, fill your face with all that life has to offer, let rip and snort kinda guy. Cyclists are just so bloody *boring*.

Speaking of which, my head hurts. Hangover rating: 9/10

I don't know why I am doing this but...

When I used to cycle in London, it was the quickest way to get to Work, it was the cheapest way to get to work and it was the most enjoyable way to get to work. It woke me up, it kept me fit. I didn't do it for any reason other than practical ones.

As an aside, it is also environmentally friendly, doesn't contribute to global warming, or causing other people lung cancer or whatever. It means I didn't have to cram into a sweaty bus or train with hundreds of other people. And the bike cost about the same as what most people pay in a year in car insurance.

Malc

Thinking about it, as well as being the quickest way to work in London (from Dollis Hill to Liverpool Street - about 9-10 miles) it was the quickest way in Exeter too, which was only about 3 miles.

Malc

It's sure as hell not the quickest way to work for me, given the roads run at 40/50/60mph except when blocked by some goon going at a fraction of that or a train, and there's no realistic public transport either. (I was less than thrilled with the office move that made this a necessity)

Still, it's rather telling that the arguments here are it's not illegal (which, you know, doesn't make it right), other people are arseholes too (which doesn't make it right) and it's tiring to let people past (which is, I'm sure, a good reason for one person to inconvience many hundreds of others, often for long periods... but not in my book, and I struggle to even understand that rather self centred mindset.)

I doubt I could ride a bike now, haven't done for years (since I was knocked off mine by another cyclist who went careering into me (at Gladstone Park, Malc)...

I think the thing that makes me nervous about cyclists is that they are so unpredictable. Moreso than car drivers: cars (generally) stick to the road, pedestrians are mostly on pavements but are slow and soft and hopefully have some sense of self-preservation, but on the way to work we often see cyclists in the main flow of traffic who, instead of stopping with that traffic when the lights go red will go staight through, then mount up onto the pavement to bypass other traffic, then will go across a pelican crossing and then rejoin main traffic until the light goes red, then...

I kind of wish there were a few more public service ads about cycle rules do that we all (pedestrians, cyclists and drivers alike) were better able to look out for and be better understanding of riders' actions, because it can be quite nerve-wrecking as a pedestrian when someone suddenly is on the pavement ahead of you.

Indeed. It would be rather handy if cycling was policed anywhere near as closely as driving.

Do you think that's a perception thing because you've improved / calmed down, though?

Whereas the forebears of all people who have ever driven a car were Nazis.

Sweeping generalisations are fun!

So not very closely at all then?
Things that can be mostly automated like tax, insurance and to a lesser extent speeding are enforced, but in terms of driving standards there's very little chance of it being seen by a police officer.

I cycle in a couple of days a week and while on a good day I can drive the 10 miles there in about 17 minutes, some days it's more like 25.
On the bike it's a mile shorter and I've just managed to get that down to 33 minutes or 37 with a bad head wind so for the sake of an extra hour's commuting I save a fiver in fuel (meh!) but more importantly I get four good rides which is definitely helping my fitness and don't waste my evenings going out for a ride.

How many people driving cars break speed limits? Got to be about 100%, right? 95% minimum.

LOCK THEM ALL UP!

But if it is seen, it does tend to be acted upon.



You are aware there's more to policing than jail, right?
For a start off, ensuring someones of a sufficient quality to drive before allowing them to.

nope, it's societal degeneration writ in steel. A lot of drivers seem.to have decided that as cyclists get away without giving.way or stopping they don't need to.either. On top indicating after the fact if at all for movements into gaps that just aren't there. And lane hogging is now the norm, not the exception to be roundly.scorned. I see MORE phone usage since the ban, both held.to ear and lap texting. Handbasket sales are through the roof, and Hell holds the patent.

On the other hand, countries like Italy manage with unending insanity on the roads because *everyone expects it*. It's people like me turning up with all my sane practices that fuck it up. So maybe in a decade it'll be like that and I'll have packed it in or moved to Germany.

Why can't you have sufficient quaility to ride a bike, if you already drive a car?

Kov got a hold of that one.

You can ride a bike round at age 8 or whatever. I don't see many car drivers age 8. I also don't see too many cars that drive down busy pavements, jump red lights etc etc.

you can't group all cyclists together.. most obey the rules of the road, but put their safety first. The same as car drivers.

If you want to strawman 8 years into it, i doubt they would be on the road anyway.

There are good and bad drivers too..

I don't see any cyclists driving at 80 on the motorway, or 90, or 100, etc. I don't see any cyclists causing multiple deaths by driving badly every day of the year. I don't see any cyclists parking dangerously or illegally on the road.

In short, your point is ridiculous.

And you fight like a cow.

I am rubber, you are glue

I'm not sure the argument "yeah, but you are a cunt too" is a good justification, to be honest.

I think the point is: "You should be more annoyed at the drivers who cause you to be stuck in a 5 mile tailback because of some crash caused by an illegal act and not some cyclist cycling slowly up hill in a completly legal, yet annoying fashion."

Malc

Cyclists: At least they aren't horse riders.

I think the point is, you can be annoyed by more than one thing at once.

Yes, obviously this.

2 whole days. 2 whole days on cyclists.

I spent 2 whole days on your mum.

And you went so slow that you held up the queue, you selfish bastard.