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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:50 
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DavPaz wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
flis wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person.


Most people would think you an idiot if you used that as a defence for shooting someone - he got a fine so why don't I? It might bring into question why rich people can get way without going to prison but I don't know how it works. I assume there's more to it than if you can't pay the fine, you go jail.

A fine as an alternative to a custodial sentence is there for a reason, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for it to be implemented in this case but I'm not a judge and I'm not familiar with sentencing procedure in SA.

Also, he can't be deemed as that much of a threat to others, or they'd have remanded him without bail, surely? Is he a straight up bad guy? Obviously the judge doesn't think so if she believes his anxious disposition due to his disability had a part to play, or he'd have been found guilty on a greater charge.



So basically if you are rich you can avoid jail.

Bernie Eccelstone recently did exactly that.


It is not right.. but I suppose it is the way of the world

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:53 
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I'd assume any fine would be means tested to avoid exactly that. Then again, South Africa.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:58 
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I am sure the fine would cost an arm and a l.... oh wait!

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:14 
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KovacsC wrote:
I am sure the fine would cost an arm and a l.... oh wait!

*sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:17 
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I'm surprised he got off the murder charge, I didn't think he had a...

*shoots one-self through bathroom door*


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:41 
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He was born with a congenital absence of the femur which meant he had to have a double-amputation at the age of 11 months.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on! HAHAHA.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 13:18 
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flis wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
It would surely encourage and reassure people that they can shoot someone with relative impunity, if there's a chance they can argue that they weren't expect it to kill the person.


Most people would think you an idiot if you used that as a defence for shooting someone - he got a fine so why don't I? It might bring into question why rich people can get way without going to prison but I don't know how it works. I assume there's more to it than if you can't pay the fine, you go jail.

A fine as an alternative to a custodial sentence is there for a reason, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for it to be implemented in this case but I'm not a judge and I'm not familiar with sentencing procedure in SA.

Also, he can't be deemed as that much of a threat to others, or they'd have remanded him without bail, surely? Is he a straight up bad guy? Obviously the judge doesn't think so if she believes his anxious disposition due to his disability had a part to play, or he'd have been found guilty on a greater charge.


The disposition appears to be key. The judge said that any reasonable person would have understood that firing four shots through a door could kill the person inside, but concluded that he could not be tried for murder as he could not be shown to have understood that.

Ergo, she concludes he's not a reasonable person.

Her true decision will really hinge on the sentencing. If she throws ten years at him she's clearly of a mind that he is a reckless danger to society. If he gets a short sentence or a suspended sentence then she is of the belief that he genuinely fucked up in an understandable fashion, given his circumstances, history, etc.

The judge seems pretty sensible and clinical, and obviously knows the laws and evidence better than any of us. I'm very interested to see her conclusions.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 13:36 
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I'm seeing too many 'THIS IS NOT JUSTICE FOR REEVA' posts on Facebook today. I'm having to be careful what I say.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:05 
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It's a similar story on the PistonHeads forum, where it seems the braying masses want him to feel the full brunt of the law because he's filthy murdering scum.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:17 
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See, this is what happens if you make a distinction between murder with intent and murder. You shoot a gun through a door, you are only trying to do one thing, you may fail or succeed, but a gun is a lethal weapon made for killing people, you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:22 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

Something. But yes.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:46 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
See, this is what happens if you make a distinction between murder with intent and murder. You shoot a gun through a door, you are only trying to do one thing, you may fail or succeed, but a gun is a lethal weapon made for killing people, you shoot it, you intended to kill someone.

It's the self defence angle that fucks about with this though.

Even in the UK, technically speaking you could legally shoot a mans to death if it was in self-defence (although I wouldn't fancy your chances of getting off scot-free)

If he genuinely thought it was an intruder and feared for his life, it's not murder. Of course, whether his story is genuine or not is another matter.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 15:50 
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yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:13 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:15 
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Grim... wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?


Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:17 
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MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

Depends how dumb you are or how much you believe movies, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:32 
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Grim... wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

Predictable consequences of shooting someone is that they die to most people.

Depends how dumb you are or how much you believe movies, I guess.

In law the base line is pretty low.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:35 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:40 
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American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?


No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:43 
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MaliA wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?


No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

Isn't that what Pistorius was doing?

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 16:51 
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American Nervoso wrote:
MaliA wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?


No, they just defend the established patriarchy.

Isn't that what Pistorius was doing?


To be honest:

I haven'the really followed the ins and outs of it save for what Rfour serves me up in the car on my way to and from work. What I have learnt, from this and the goings on in New Or leans, is that twitter seems to be the best place to judge guilt or innocence, and that we in the UK seem to be fascinated with the judicial process in other countries like some weird neo colonialism. The vagaries of the South African legal system aside, and the man on woman violence narrative being spun on it, I still harbour no desire to visit the place.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 17:02 
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Diplomatic immunity, etc. etc.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 21:57 
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American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 23:03 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Trooper wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later.
I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now...


Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. :facepalm:
Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position.


It's back on the market again, the sale fell through :D

I might call up tomorrow and make an incredibly cheeky offer, you never know! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:19 
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Grim... wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

What if you were aiming for the legs and missed (or hit the femoral artery)?

depends, were you shooting at Pistorius?


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:33 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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Trooper wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Trooper wrote:
Hmmm..... The house we were looking at last year and couldn't come to a deal on, is still up for sale a year later.
I wonder how desperate they are to sell it now...


Well... that's ironic. They took a reservation on the house this week. :facepalm:
Even if that does fall through, that hurts my bargaining position.


It's back on the market again, the sale fell through :D

I might call up tomorrow and make an incredibly cheeky offer, you never know! ;)


It turns out the reason it is back on the market is that the previous people wanted 2% off the price and they said no. My 10% off offer didn't go down too well :D
Ah well, look like they will be sitting on the house for a while yet.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 18:48 
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The house we made an offer on now has a sold sign outside it... We both looked at each other and had a moment of panic when we realised that meant we're buying a house. That feeling was replaced by happiness pretty quickly though.

We still have a lot to do, like get planning permission for all the things we want to change. Before we can live in it comfortably we need a new boiler, and two bedrooms and a shower room in the loft. And then we're going to add an extension on the back, which will have our en-suite and new bedroom (the existing 2nd bedroom becomes a dressing room), and a dining area so we can turn the entire existing kitchen/dining room into just a kitchen. Big plans!

As we've managed to buy this house without needing to sell the other one, and we have enough cash left to do the first part of the build so everyone at least has their own room, we can use the money from the house sale to finish everything exactly how we want. I don't know whether I'm more excited for our new kitchen, or our 'master suite' :D

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 19:52 
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We've been out looking at more houses and have found one we like, it's just a matter of seeing what deal we can get.

It'll mean a 5 mile trip to the train station each morning which is a bit of a ballache, still if I do it on a pushbike a fair bit then at least I'll get fit.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 21:25 
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Is it near me?

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 22:57 
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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:12 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

It's an interesting philosophical question. Because they don't get banged up once they've killed someone. So can't be murder.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:41 
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American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
American Nervoso wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
yes it is murder. Potentially "justifiable" murder, but it is still murder - he was trying to kill someone.

So are soldiers murderers?

Yes, of course they are. Well, the ones that kill people anyway.

It's an interesting philosophical question. Because they don't get banged up once they've killed someone. So can't be murder.

It depends quite a lot on whether they fought for the winning side.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 16:22 
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Went to the Christening of the son of one of the NCT group. It was proper good AND there was a bar. Might go over to someone's house later as a party is brewing it seems. Hymns were good as well. No communion though.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 22:02 
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... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 17:41 
It's starting to get cold up here again now. I'm even getting ill :(


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 20:21 
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That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 20:36 
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KovacsC wrote:
That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.

hopefully her helicopter doesn't crash.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 20:46 
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krazywookie wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
That helicopter crash is 1/2 a mile from where I was stopping this weekend. Mskov is still up there.

hopefully her helicopter doesn't crash.


:DD

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:32 
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"Saving gamings relics"

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 18:28 
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Saturnalian wrote:
... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.


Now they have ripped off TheVision's BeeX WeeX!

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 21:47 
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5 years until Blade Runner happens!

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 22:03 
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5 years until Blade Runner happens!


Just in time for them to film the sequel.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 22:22 
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Heh.

I've noticed that future-set sci-fi films now tend to be set a "safer" distance in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:02 
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MaliA wrote:
Saturnalian wrote:
... Annnnd the kidnapped British man has been executed by those ISIS cunts.


Now they have ripped off TheVision's BeeX WeeX!


That's ok as I ripped off Harry Hills TV burp in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:38 
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Those of you who have the pleasure of 'knowing' me on Facebook would have perhaps seen the picture of an old brochure for my university that I shared earlier today. It featured a picture of a certain disgraced Australian celebrity in a promotional context. Much retrospective chuckles were had.

However, the head of marketing just rang me and asked me to round up any remaining copies and burn them, just in case anyone sees it and thinks it's a current document. She was quite serious :)


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:45 
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DavPaz wrote:
Those of you who have the pleasure of 'knowing' me on Facebook would have perhaps seen the picture of an old brochure for my university that I shared earlier today. It featured a picture of a certain disgraced Australian celebrity in a promotional context. Much retrospective chuckles were had.

However, the head of marketing just rang me and asked me to round up any remaining copies and burn them, just in case anyone sees it and thinks it's a current document. She was quite serious :)

Oh, that's special. :)

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:47 
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It just occurred to me that I'm not Facebook friends with her :)


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 14:58 
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DavPaz wrote:
It just occurred to me that I'm not Facebook friends with her :)

You may want to remove said post from Facebook.

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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 15:04 
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You may be right


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 Post subject: Re: B&B 43
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 15:59 
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1) Seems wife can do compressed hours at her work AND still have time to do nursery pick ups and drop offs.

2) I am 90% sure I am in W2 end of next week. Will confirm.

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