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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 13:09 
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EvilTrousers

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

He's had 17 months, how much longer does he need?

Eternity. Like too many on the hard left, he seems to be much better [1] at opposing things than proposing them [2].

[1] fairly poor
[2] beyond useless.


Jezza, earlier

Attachment:
remembering_rimmer_4.jpg


It's not that the polymorph is a slobbery alien death monster who won't listen to reason, more that it's just not received the message properly, so a leaflet campaign is really going to change things and if not, then lets look at some more options next Thursday?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:16 
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Oh man... :cying with laughter emoji: ... McDonnell goes into full, unbridled SEL-meltdown/tinfoil hat mode:

Quote:
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell says "a soft coup" has been launched against Jeremy Corbyn by "elements in the Labour Party".

Mr McDonnell accuses unnamed "plotters" and the "Murdoch media empire" of a "coordinated and fully resourced" coup.
In an article for Labour Briefing, he said "the plotters" were using "an exceptionally well resourced dark arts operation" to "destroy Jeremy Corbyn".

One former Labour minister described Mr McDonnell's comments as "unhinged".

In his article, Mr McDonnell accuses "the coup perpetrators" of "a covert strategy" to destabilise Mr Corbyn because they had failed to dislodge him directly through a leadership election.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39102703

It's an over-used phrase, but really, Labour honestly, honestly is "the gift that keeps on giving"; an ever-present ray of tragi-comic sunshine to perpetually cheer us all up in otherwise worrisome times. Bless 'em! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:19 
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It's all Snowball's fault!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 13:13 
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Gogmagog

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holds mirror up

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 13:35 
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But it's like I've been saying for a while now, Mali. Who needs the hassle of even the flimsiest basis of evidence in this post-truth, Twitter-fueled, new-media fest? It's a whole new ballgame out there; just make up some baseless, medacious shite and/or ad hominem and chuck it out there. Thank goodness that we, here in the UK, have reasonably intelligent grownups in charge.

I'm still seriously trying to get my head around the President of the USA "tweeting". Seriously?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 13:57 
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The Daily Mail has been doing the same thing for 20+ years, and a lot more Brits pay attention to that than to what's said on Twitter.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 13:58 
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(Don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree, but I don't think it's a 'new media' thing)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:04 
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Disagree. :)
We've had the tabloid gutter press since forever, but its reach could only go so far. This is (IMO) on a whole new level, and as hinted in previous posts, I truly believe there's a recent, complete change of mindset across swathes of the political class. For me, the rot started under Labour and the Blair era in the UK.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:06 
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Gogmagog

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https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/sta ... 2327656448




Oh. My.

Quote:
BREAKING: The #SoftCoup has started. The strategy is to cause division through social media. Take a look at this video and share it widely. https://t.co/PUpmYCdPFg

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:12 
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Crumbs
The Frozen-esque avatar is even worse though.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:15 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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MrChris wrote:
Crumbs
The Frozen-esque avatar is even worse though.


I like frozen..

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:21 
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MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/836327062327656448

Oh. My.

Quote:
BREAKING: The #SoftCoup has started. The strategy is to cause division through social media. Take a look at this video and share it widely. https://t.co/PUpmYCdPFg


:DD :DD :DD

Well I have to confess, I've always been all about trying to "EXHUAST" the 'Corbyn Camp' (man, what an image that conjures up).

She's got 24,000 "followers" apparently. The mind truly boggles.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:27 
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Aaron Banks and Farage are trying to expel UKIP MP Douglas Carswell from UKIP. They reason that he is soft on immigration and that he stood in the way of Farage being knighted (odd that someone against unelected elites is so desperate for this and/or joining the Lords).

They have made it so he is being summoned to the chair of he party.

Only one hitch. He can only be expelled at the agreement of the UKIP Parliamentary Party.

Said party is currently comprised of one person; Carswell himself.

:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:29 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Curiosity wrote:
Aaron Banks and Farage are trying to expel UKIP MP Douglas Carswell from UKIP. They reason that he is soft on immigration and that he stood in the way of Farage being knighted (odd that someone against unelected elites is so desperate for this and/or joining the Lords).

They have made it so he is being summoned to the chair of he party.

Only one hitch. He can only be expelled at the agreement of the UKIP Parliamentary Party.

Said party is currently comprised of one person; Carswell himself.

:DD


That is fantastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:29 
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:DD

Yes, politics at the far extremes of the spectrum (whether Left or Right) sure makes for quasi-independent, contra-rotating, involuntary radial eyeball movements on the part of the practitioners, that's for sure. :D

Good grief... thank fook UKIP have only one MP, right Curio?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:33 
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Fantastic.

Of course, Nigel Farage shouldn't be knighted. As the saviour of the country (TM) he's in line for at least an OM and an earldom, if not the Garter itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:45 
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Cavey wrote:
:DD

Yes, politics at the far extremes of the spectrum (whether Left or Right) sure makes for quasi-independent, contra-rotating, involuntary radial eyeball movements on the part of the practitioners, that's for sure. :D

Good grief... thank fook UKIP have only one MP, right Curio?

Well, UKIP have pretty much done what they set out to do. Got the UK out of the EU and made the Tories veer rightward on immigration. Job done!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:47 
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Well, personally, I thank my lucky stars every single day that we have FPTP in this country. Long may this continue forever IMO, for self-evident reasons. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:54 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-3 ... ow_twitter

Quote:
The state pension age may have to rise to levels above the average lifespan of men in the UK's poorer areas, MPs say.

The Work and Pensions Committee said the age would need to rise above 70 to make the current policy of increasing the pension amount sustainable.

State pensions rise each year by the inflation rate or whichever is highest of average earnings or 2.5% - as part of the so-called pensions triple-lock.

The government said it was committed to the policy until 2020 at least.

As a result of triple-lock policy, the state pension has risen by £1,100 since 2010.

In November the committee said the policy should be scrapped.

The committee commissioned the Institute for Fiscal Studies to estimate the extra state pension age increases that would be needed to maintain expenditure at about 6% of GDP (Gross Domestic Product).

It found that the state pension age would need to be 70.5 years by 2060.

But the committee's research found that in deprived areas of England and Scotland, male life expectancy was below that level.

Currently, the state pension age is set to be 67 for both men and women by 2028.

The committee said:

* Male life expectancy was below 70.5 in 162 areas in Scotland
* The lowest male life expectancy was 62.5 years in the Parkhead West and Barrowfield area of Glasgow. In that area, female life expectancy was 70.1 years
* Male life expectancy was below 70.5 in 26 areas in England, including Blackpool, Manchester, Teesside, Leicester, east London and the Wirral
* The lowest male expectancy in England was 67.5 years in the centre of Blackpool
* By contrast, male life expectancy in the area of Westminster, which includes Mayfair and Covent Garden, was 92.9 years, 25 years higher

Frank Field, committee chairman, said: "With the triple-lock in place, the only way state pension expenditure can be made sustainable is to keep raising the state pension age.


Sucks for you, poor people!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 14:55 
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Unpossible!

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MaliA wrote:
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/836327062327656448

Oh. My.

Quote:
BREAKING: The #SoftCoup has started. The strategy is to cause division through social media. Take a look at this video and share it widely. https://t.co/PUpmYCdPFg

Good god.

Does she really believe that anyone who disagrees with her is a fabricated troll account? That people care enough about Corbyn to launch a planned, sinister "coup"?

My stars and stones.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:00 
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Is a soft coup akin to a slow phase out whereas a hard coup is 'we need to talk?'.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:01 
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Hate to say it DavPaz, but the go-to, default response of many on the Left (and CyberNats as well) is "TROLL!" in response to any criticism, hence the development of insular, exclusive, polarised echo-chambers entirely disinterested with inconvenient facts and truths.

That doesn't happen here because people here are generally too lovely and intelligent - and we're only a small group etc., but this doesn't appear to be the norm. Not that I'm on Twitter of anything like it, in fact here is the only place I am _at all_. (Soz :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:01 
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Kern wrote:
Is a soft coup akin to a slow phase out whereas a hard coup is 'we need to talk?'.


A soft coup is where they use padded pitchforks with corks on the tines.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:03 
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Cavey wrote:
Kern wrote:
Is a soft coup akin to a slow phase out whereas a hard coup is 'we need to talk?'.


A soft coup is where they use padded pitchforks with corks on the tines.


And the flaming torches are actually just blowing air through a red and yellow cloth.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:03 
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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:05 
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Soft coup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODlEU9djak

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:06 
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Giphy "soft coup":
http://media4.giphy.com/media/sLzODLIWeGQXm/giphy-loop.mp4

Giphy "hard coup":
http://media0.giphy.com/media/12Bsb5qIn08f3G/giphy-loop.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 15:08 
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Most excellent satire there, Giphy.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:01 
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... Even The Guardian are taking the piss now...

Quote:
How can you tell the difference between a determined troll and someone who just disagrees with you? If they’re a troll, you’ll find they’ve sent other “tweets that seek to undermine Jeremy Corbyn”.

Gosh. It’s so sinister. I know.

Do say: McDonnell himself seems to be experiencing some disunity.


:DD

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/sh ... ell-labour

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:14 
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EvilTrousers

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To be honest it's a pattern I have experienced.

i.e in my personal life - first they are nice and polite to you at first and then they throw things at you like "No you can't sleep with other women" and "Just pick the fucking towel up for once in your fucking life"

#domesticcoup

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:17 
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:D

To be fair I got the whole pick-up-the-towel thing way before suggesting sleeping with interested third parties.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:20 
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Cavey wrote:
:D

To be fair I got the whole pick-up-the-towel thing way before suggesting sleeping with interested third parties.


MrsA gets annoyed with my doing that and has decided it was because when i was a teenager I'd "gotten used to having a houseboy in Oman to do that stuff for me". Which i disagree with.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:20 
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Oh man.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:21 
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:D

...We're on fire today, on fire I tells thee!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:22 
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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
:D

To be fair I got the whole pick-up-the-towel thing way before suggesting sleeping with interested third parties.


MrsA gets annoyed with my doing that and has decided it was because when i was a teenager I'd "gotten used to having a houseboy in Oman to do that stuff for me". Which i disagree with.

You had a houseboy to sleep with interested third parties for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 17:27 
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MrChris wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
:D

To be fair I got the whole pick-up-the-towel thing way before suggesting sleeping with interested third parties.


MrsA gets annoyed with my doing that and has decided it was because when i was a teenager I'd "gotten used to having a houseboy in Oman to do that stuff for me". Which i disagree with.

You had a houseboy to sleep with interested third parties for you?


No, just the cleaning, ironing, and whatnot.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:37 
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Cavey wrote:
:D

To be fair I got the whole pick-up-the-towel thing way before suggesting sleeping with interested third parties.


I get it in the neck for leaving it on our bed :)

We have a bathroom downstairs which I prefer to use, but all my clothes are upstairs so I go wondering up there after a shower to get socks etc and usually leave the towel on the bed.

All the bathrooms are getting replaced starting next week, my wife insisted on a draw unit in the one downstairs so I can keep socks and boxers down there and reduce my towel on the bed crimes!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:15 
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You see though you've all reached an element of compromise - your standards are below theirs but you raise yours and they lower their expectations to arrive at a reasonably happy compromise.

Currently in politics if your opinion differs from someone else you either make shit up, invent a conspiracy or just say "Well yes but at least I'm not PETER SUTCLIFFE". Compromise just seems further away than it ever did.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:56 
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Our Foreign Secretary made a speech yesterday. Somewhere within it is an argument for the benefits of free trade, but were it not published on GOV.UK I'd be convinced it was a parody.

Quote:
And I am sure you all ate fruit for breakfast. Can you cast your mind back to breakfast? You’re all so young and thrusting that you probably don’t remember the time that I do, when pineapples came only in a tin with a gloopy syrup. And pineapples were thought so generally exotic 100 years ago that architects would place them as finials on the top of the top of railings or pillars or other architectural features


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:20 
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Kern wrote:
Our Foreign Secretary made a speech yesterday. Somewhere within it is an argument for the benefits of free trade, but were it not published on GOV.UK I'd be convinced it was a parody.

Quote:
And I am sure you all ate fruit for breakfast. Can you cast your mind back to breakfast? You’re all so young and thrusting that you probably don’t remember the time that I do, when pineapples came only in a tin with a gloopy syrup. And pineapples were thought so generally exotic 100 years ago that architects would place them as finials on the top of the top of railings or pillars or other architectural features


Skimming over the text of the speech, he does seem rather pineapple-obsessed. The bit on J K Rowling and the Punjab is a bit odd too -

Quote:
I was in the classroom, I asked the girls, I said who’s your favourite author? And what do you think they said? That’s right. Congratulations to the front row for paying attention. They all as one virtually shouted out J.K. Rowling. I then asked them various other questions to which I’m sure you all know the answers about who is the headmaster and so on and so forth, and they all knew that stuff. I hope I’m not being vulgar if I say that more sales of Harry Potter worldwide mean more business for UK publishing. Don’t they? And I hope it’s not too crude to say that means more jobs for people in this city, indeed more probably for all I know, more publishers lunches in Soho. I’m not saying that you can draw a straight line from an overflowing classroom in the Punjab to an overflowing restaurant in Dean Street, but the connection is there.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:24 
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His writing style reminds me of Mali

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:26 
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Lonewolves wrote:
His writing style reminds me of Mali


Zephaniah 3:17

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:33 
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Kern wrote:
Our Foreign Secretary made a speech yesterday. Somewhere within it is an argument for the benefits of free trade, but were it not published on GOV.UK I'd be convinced it was a parody.

Quote:
And I am sure you all ate fruit for breakfast. Can you cast your mind back to breakfast? You’re all so young and thrusting that you probably don’t remember the time that I do, when pineapples came only in a tin with a gloopy syrup. And pineapples were thought so generally exotic 100 years ago that architects would place them as finials on the top of the top of railings or pillars or other architectural features

I mean, it's certainly true that they were used in architecture, but I'm not sure about as recently as 100 years ago.

There's one on top of St. Paul's Cathedral, though:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:36 
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I didn't know that about St Paul's! I'm now going to add 'pineapple' to my private list of details on buildings to look for.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:50 
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Trousers wrote:
Currently in politics if your opinion differs from someone else you either make shit up, invent a conspiracy or just say "Well yes but at least I'm not PETER SUTCLIFFE". Compromise just seems further away than it ever did.


:this:

I've thought long and hard as to why this should be, but haven't really come up with an answer. I can't really believe people these days are inherently more conceited and less able to absorb empirical facts and realities than they were (as individuals), say, 10 or 20 years ago; it surely has to be something to do with the changing ways of interacting with like-minded, and therefore polarised groups.

Plus, let's face it, these days to be seen to compromise and/or concede points in an argument (especially an internet argument) is construed as weakness, by default.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:09 
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Grim... wrote:
Kern wrote:
Our Foreign Secretary made a speech yesterday. Somewhere within it is an argument for the benefits of free trade, but were it not published on GOV.UK I'd be convinced it was a parody.

Quote:
And I am sure you all ate fruit for breakfast. Can you cast your mind back to breakfast? You’re all so young and thrusting that you probably don’t remember the time that I do, when pineapples came only in a tin with a gloopy syrup. And pineapples were thought so generally exotic 100 years ago that architects would place them as finials on the top of the top of railings or pillars or other architectural features

I mean, it's certainly true that they were used in architecture, but I'm not sure about as recently as 100 years ago.

There's one on top of St. Paul's Cathedral, though:

Image


Looks more like a strawberry than a pineapple to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:17 
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Cavey wrote:
Trousers wrote:
Currently in politics if your opinion differs from someone else you either make shit up, invent a conspiracy or just say "Well yes but at least I'm not PETER SUTCLIFFE". Compromise just seems further away than it ever did.


:this:

I've thought long and hard as to why this should be, but haven't really come up with an answer. I can't really believe people these days are inherently more conceited and less able to absorb empirical facts and realities than they were (as individuals), say, 10 or 20 years ago; it surely has to be something to do with the changing ways of interacting with like-minded, and therefore polarised groups.

Plus, let's face it, these days to be seen to compromise and/or concede points in an argument (especially an internet argument) is construed as weakness, by default.


The modern way of doing politics appears to be fear. Give someone something to fear, and push the message of that threat at every opportunity.

Fear for your safety
Fear for your job
Fear for your healthcare coverage

Politicians do it. The media does it, and it's incredibly polarising. Once you engage a sense of fear in people, their ability to rationalise and compromise recedes. And it clearly works.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:30 
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I agree with that, but you're talking about the way politicians conduct themselves (i.e. the "practitioners" as it were). I'm talking about the way "followers" behave.

I think your average internet politico has far too much vested pride in what is, for many, seemingly a modern-day belief-system? I mean really, can anyone of us imagine guys like, say, Billy Bragg, Owen Jones (or even our erstwhile webmaster, remember that whole changing laws of physics thing?), if confronted with compelling - or even absolutely conclusive evidence contrary to their precious beliefs - confronting their lifelong held dear political fundamentals and (publicly and fundamentally) revising their positions? I just can't see it myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:34 
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Well, they have the fear.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:41 
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Credit where credit's due. According to the Guardian, the government's accepted an amendment to the Children & Social Work bill making sex education an obligatory part of the national curriculum. I'm actually surprised it currently isn't.


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