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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:26 
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It's also pretty much sunk as a rational reason for voting patterns by the 'if only women voted' results - which show even the heavily rural areas mostly going blue. So it's only the men in rural areas that are misunderstood and not given their beliefs the respect they deserve?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 14:59 
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Cras wrote:
It's also pretty much sunk as a rational reason for voting patterns by the 'if only women voted' results - which show even the heavily rural areas mostly going blue. So it's only the men in rural areas that are misunderstood and not given their beliefs the respect they deserve?


I don't get how it can even be close to a sensible reason given that the vast majority of the traditional 1% are Republican (though this is slightly shifting at the moment).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:09 
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MaliA wrote:
20th Oct for Batley aft Jo Cox death and same date for Witney elections.


Seen lots of small signs for labour candidate but only one for English Democrats. List of candidates:

Corbyn Anti - English Independence;
Tracy Lynn Brabin - Labour Party;
Jack Buckby - Liberty GB;
Richard Charles Edmonds - National Front;
David Furness - British National Party;
Therese Hirst - English Democrats:
Waqas Ali Khan - Independent;
Garry Mervyn Kitchin - Independent;
Ankit Love - One Love Party;
Henry Edmund Burke Mayhew - Independent.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:01 
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Since the EU referendum on June 23, this country has been turned on its head. The latest proof comes from an unlikely – and indeed unwitting – source. The former England football captain, Gary Lineker.

A few days ago on Twitter, Lineker expressed his disappointment at the lack of sympathy some people in Britain were showing to refugees. In some cases, he believed, their attitude was not only heartless but racist.

In return, he received cascades of indignant abuse. A Ukip MEP, Patrick O’Flynn, suggested he should lose his job as presenter of the BBC’s Match of the Day. Then the Sun joined in, by claiming on its front page that “the BBC was under pressure to fire Gary Lineker”. Apparently, some people were so offended by Lineker’s comments that they proposed a boycott of the brand of crisps he advertises. (Walker’s, if you want to join in. Or, indeed, if you want to buy some extra, out of solidarity.)

There, in microcosm, you see how debate has changed in this country. Everyone’s switched sides.

Because, until quite recently, it was the socially conservative who complained that “you can’t say anything nowadays” without causing outrage among the socially liberal. Now, it’s the socially liberal who complain that “you can’t say anything nowadays” without causing outrage among the socially conservative.

It’s fascinating: a complete role reversal. What are the people calling for Lineker to lose his job, after all, if not hyper-sensitive “special snowflakes” who are trying to “no-platform” someone, merely because he expressed an opinion they didn’t like? Can’t he even mention immigration without people jumping down his throat? Aren’t they just shutting down debate about his legitimate concerns, by taking offence and playing the victim card? Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

Honestly. It’s political incorrectness gone mad.

Marvelous: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016 ... of-speech/


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 15:13 
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It (the outrage at Lineker's comments) would be funny were it not such a widespread view amongst the British public. It's not as though there weren't out-and-out bigots before the EU referendum, but the result does seem to make them think they can spout their pissant views more openly.

Lineker should just tell them all to fuck off, but I'm sure he's too polite to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 15:42 
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It's weird that my current favourite non-sport journalist works for he bloody Telegraph (Michael Deacon, who penned the above Lineker story and also covered that time Nigel Farage and Bob Geldof had a battle on the Thames).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 16:09 
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Deacon is amazing but you can't mention him without linking to his best work: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/1004 ... Brown.html


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 16:13 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Deacon is amazing but you can't mention him without linking to his best work: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/1004 ... Brown.html


I hadn't realised that was him. Just beautiful.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 18:23 
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Curiosity wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Deacon is amazing but you can't mention him without linking to his best work: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/1004 ... Brown.html


I hadn't realised that was him. Just beautiful.


Superb

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:30 
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I've suddenly realised that I really have no opinion on whether the runway should be built at Heathrow or Gatwick. 'London' Oxford, on the other hand...


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:01 
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Kern wrote:
I've suddenly realised that I really have no opinion on whether the runway should be built at Heathrow or Gatwick. 'London' Oxford, on the other hand...


I am pretty much 'meh' about it. I like to think May has purposefully said Heathrow to put Boris in another uncomfortable position.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:15 
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Bit fucked off Nissan have said that they are staying in Sunderland. Doesn't sit right, to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:33 
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MaliA wrote:
Bit fucked off Nissan have said that they are staying in Sunderland. Doesn't sit right, to me.

Brexit means subsidies

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:48 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Bit fucked off Nissan have said that they are staying in Sunderland. Doesn't sit right, to me.

Brexit means subsidies


Yeah, I dunno how I would feel if the government suddenly went about propping up businesses as a result of a poorly thought out decision against facts and stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:55 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Bit fucked off Nissan have said that they are staying in Sunderland. Doesn't sit right, to me.

Brexit means subsidies


Yeah, I dunno how I would feel if the government suddenly went about propping up businesses as a result of a poorly thought out decision against facts and stuff.

I mean it's great for the 4,000 workers at the plant. Not so much for anyone else really. Tax payers' money being used to effectively bribe a foreign corporation to stay in the country.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:02 
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Making sweetheart deals with major employers to stay in the UK despite Brexit is the new bailing out failing banks. Party like it's 2009, baby.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:03 
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Surely what's next is every other manufacturer of anything immediately asking for a handout?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:03 
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Sunderland without Nissan would be an unpleasant place.

Mind you... Sunderland *with* Nissan isn't much cop.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:03 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Bit fucked off Nissan have said that they are staying in Sunderland. Doesn't sit right, to me.

Brexit means subsidies


Yeah, I dunno how I would feel if the government suddenly went about propping up businesses as a result of a poorly thought out decision against facts and stuff.

I mean it's great for the 4,000 workers at the plant. Not so much for anyone else really. Tax payers' money being used to effectively bribe a foreign corporation to stay in the country.



My current feeling is still "most of them voted for it, suffer the consequences" but I think that inducements to stay should not be paid. If this is the desired direction, then the consequences need to be made clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:04 
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MaliA wrote:
My current feeling is still "most of them voted for it, suffer the consequences" but I think that inducements to stay should not be paid. If this is the desired direction, then the consequences need to be made clear.

In your world, many spiteful faces would be noseless.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:06 
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DavPaz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
My current feeling is still "most of them voted for it, suffer the consequences" but I think that inducements to stay should not be paid. If this is the desired direction, then the consequences need to be made clear.

In your world, many spiteful faces would be noseless.


I am still a little bitter and angry over it, so it clouds my judgement somewhat.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:09 
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DavPaz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
My current feeling is still "most of them voted for it, suffer the consequences" but I think that inducements to stay should not be paid. If this is the desired direction, then the consequences need to be made clear.

In your world, many spiteful faces would be noseless.

This is the problem. Many people were convinced to vote leave with ridiculous promises from politicians and/or tabloid fearmongering, and I don't want to see people punished twice for it. I don't like seeing anyone losing their jobs and it would be a massive loss to the north-east where living standards are already poor as it is, but at the same time it doesn't sit right at all.

It's a shitty situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:20 
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To a certain extent though, it is redistribution of wealth. Before brexit it was only the banks who received the money, now every big company that already makes billions can receive the money. Brexit has already balanced the payload, and we haven't even left yet, just wait until the banks have fucked off completely, all that money we give them can be spread out around the rest of the UK rather just fucking London fat cats.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:22 
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Labour are more fucked than ever. How can they show their disapproval for this deal without seeming anti-worker?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:27 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Labour are more fucked than ever. How can they show their disapproval for this deal without seeming anti-worker?


Had Labour proposed it, we would be hearing screams of 'Mr Corbyn wants a return to the 1970s!' from the government benches and the tabloids. Although I wouldn't put it past him feeling nostalgic for British Leyland.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:28 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Labour are more fucked than ever. How can they show their disapproval for this deal without seeming anti-worker?


And a Tory government just saved jobs in a labour area.....

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:28 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Making sweetheart deals with major employers to stay in the UK despite Brexit is the new bailing out failing banks. Party like it's 2009, baby.


I see Twitter got a fact-checked version of this joke :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:29 
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Kern wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Labour are more fucked than ever. How can they show their disapproval for this deal without seeming anti-worker?


Had Labour proposed it, we would be hearing screams of 'Mr Corbyn wants a return to the 1970s!' from the government benches and the tabloids. Although I wouldn't put it past him feeling nostalgic for British Leyland.


Blair was saying today it was a Tory party from 1960s and a labour party from 1960s

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:30 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Labour are more fucked than ever. How can they show their disapproval for this deal without seeming anti-worker?


And a Tory government just saved jobs in a labour area.....


It's a clever strategy. Labour are more or less extinct in Scotland so the Tories are happy to gift it to the SNP and take up the opposition role there, whilst in the North make massive inroads into its traditional heartlands to appeal to the wavering working classes who might otherwise move to UKIP.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:31 
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MaliA wrote:
Blair was saying today it was a Tory party from 1960s and a labour party from 1960s


I find it hard to not like either Supermac or Wilson mark 1 and wish current leaders were like either.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:43 
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Kern wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Blair was saying today it was a Tory party from 1960s and a labour party from 1960s


I find it hard to not like either Supermac or Wilson mark 1 and wish current leaders were like either.



Welcome to my Rover 25. £1k to you, sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:46 
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So are we... all in agreement today? :S

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:47 
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Thinking about it, I haven't heard much from Corbyn of late. One would have thought he'd be in the papers over Goldman Sachs tapes with some comment or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:49 
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Lonewolves wrote:
So are we... all in agreement today? :S

I guess Cavey was right. We're all a bunch of woolly liberals.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:51 
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Cras wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Making sweetheart deals with major employers to stay in the UK despite Brexit is the new bailing out failing banks. Party like it's 2009, baby.


I see Twitter got a fact-checked version of this joke :)

Yes, yes it did.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:53 
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MaliA wrote:
Thinking about it, I haven't heard much from Corbyn of late. One would have thought he'd be in the papers over Goldman Sachs tapes with some comment or something.


Reading the transcript of this week's PMQs he made some pretty good points about the government's strategy on Brexit and on Saudi Arabia. I haven't seen the footage so I don't know how it came across in the Chamber but it appeared better than his usual efforts (at least until he tried a joke). Still came across as a backbencher rather than as a leader, however. Blair would have stuck to the Brexit theme, kept each question short, and been far more thrusting and brutal with his blows. PMQs is theatre, after all, and you need to play the game to do well.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:53 
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DavPaz wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So are we... all in agreement today? :S

I guess Cavey was right. We're all a bunch of woolly liberals.


I miss Cavey. Shame he wasn't at Cottage.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:54 
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So, whilst on various holidays this year I was noticing buildings with small blue and white plaques on them. I'd no idea what these meant, and thought it related to fire hydrant locations or similar. Turns out it's a symbol for protected monuments under the 1954 Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, and whilst we signed it in 1954 it's only now that a bill bringing this convention into domestic law has been going through Parliament. It's already passed the Lords and had second reading in the Commons a couple of days ago. The blue/white symbol will become a protected sign, similar to the Red Cross. Never heard of it before, and something that's slipped passed by radar as all parties are agreeing on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:58 
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Quote:
Kevin Brannan (Cardiff West) (Lab):

The convention applies only to events after 1954, so we fortunately do not have to revisit all those times in too much detail; otherwise, before we knew it, we would have SNP Members going on about the Stone of Scone.

Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) :

We’ve already got it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:59 
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Shame ISIS didn't see the symbols, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:11 
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Government loses case in high court, act of parliament required to trigger A50.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:14 
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Cras wrote:
Government loses case in high court, act of parliament required to trigger A50.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live


Ah, the courts continue their campaign to annoy May. Super. Well, off to appeals we go?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:15 
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Cras wrote:
Government loses case in high court, act of parliament required to trigger A50.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live

I don't think it'll make too much difference tbh

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:21 
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MaliA wrote:
Cras wrote:
Government loses case in high court, act of parliament required to trigger A50.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live


Ah, the courts continue their campaign to annoy May. Super. Well, off to appeals we go?


I read probably not, as they won't want to lose in front of the CoA and SC. They'l likely just hold tight and hope the MPs won't piss off their constituents who voted leave. A lot of the new Tory MPs are in leave constituencies, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:23 
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MrChris wrote:
the MPs won't piss off their constituents who voted leave. A lot of the new Tory MPs are in leave constituencies, I think.


Not to mention Labour ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:33 
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Kern wrote:
MrChris wrote:
the MPs won't piss off their constituents who voted leave. A lot of the new Tory MPs are in leave constituencies, I think.


Not to mention Labour ones.


Corbyn will grab this opportunity to delay and delay the three line whip voting for Brexit until the deal Britain wants and needs is reached. The opposition cannot fail us now,

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:33 
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I'm not reading 32 pages.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:35 
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MaliA wrote:
Kern wrote:
MrChris wrote:
the MPs won't piss off their constituents who voted leave. A lot of the new Tory MPs are in leave constituencies, I think.


Not to mention Labour ones.


Corbyn will grab this opportunity to delay and delay the three line whip voting for Brexit until the deal Britain wants and needs is reached. The opposition cannot fail us now,

He can't. Too many northern Labour constituencies voted Leave. They will get even more unpopular!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:37 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Kern wrote:
MrChris wrote:
the MPs won't piss off their constituents who voted leave. A lot of the new Tory MPs are in leave constituencies, I think.


Not to mention Labour ones.


Corbyn will grab this opportunity to delay and delay the three line whip voting for Brexit until the deal Britain wants and needs is reached. The opposition cannot fail us now,

He can't. Too many northern Labour constituencies voted Leave. They will get even more unpopular!


My kids are Northern you monster. I asked the older one what she thought and she shouted "It's Frog Time" and ran about a bit before feeding the other one playdoh so I suspect she's a bit racist and a Brexiteer

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:44 
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Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
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Location: Oxford
I love good argument about the constitution and the relationship between the Crown and Parliament. Might have to sit down with some port and cheese later to savour the judgement.


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