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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 18:41 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Oh well, watch them leave in droves now to work in the private sector. Good work, Jeremy "Cockney Rhyming Slang" Hunt.

Which is, of course, what the game plan seems to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:54 
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What I don't understand is why no one has taken Jeremy to one side and told him to grow the fuck up. I can only presume that Gaz is correct and the entire gameplan of this Government is to undermine the existence of the NHS. I just don't understand why they would want that. Even if they are haughty nobs who look down on the plebs and want to keep them as some sort of underclass, it doesn't make sense to do that by causing riots. Have they learnt nothing from the Hunger Games?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:09 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
I just don't understand why they would want that.


One word answer : Money


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:14 
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I honestly don't know if it's some Machiavellian plan or if he's just a total dickhead backed into a corner. I mean it's a given that he's a total dickhead but whether or not there's anything else to it, we'll see in time.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:18 
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markg wrote:
I honestly don't know if it's some Machiavellian plan or if he's just a total dickhead backed into a corner. I mean it's a given that he's a total dickhead but whether or not there's anything else to it, we'll see in time.


He's certainly keeping the negative press off Cameron, Osborne etc.

That's a useful talent to have.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:26 
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markg wrote:
I honestly don't know if it's some Machiavellian plan or if he's just a total dickhead backed into a corner. I mean it's a given that he's a total dickhead but whether or not there's anything else to it, we'll see in time.


Dick head in a corner. There was no way he could back down.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:26 
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Yeah, which is exactly why he's in that role. Same with IDS in the DWP. Action party policy, but keep all the heat off Cameron and Osborne.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:29 
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As was said of Supermac, greater love hath no man than he who lays down his friends for his life.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:07 
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zaphod79 wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
I just don't understand why they would want that.


One word answer : Money

But even that doesn't make sense. They would make much more money by running a corrupt NHS than having to take back handers from corporate groups and they would be responsible for their own corruption rather than in a blackmailable position from a corporate sponsor.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:08 
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It's because they are lobbied by their rich mates who happen to own these private healthcare companies. And in return they get to sit on the boards of these companies once they retire from politics.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:14 
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But that seems incredibly short term ist, if they keep this up, there won't be society to provide money to them.

If we haven't run out of oil, we will have run out clean water cause they poisoned it all with their fracking and global warming will have raised sea levels poisoning reservoirs. Disease will be rife as there are no doctors so people are just self-medicating street cut antibiotics. It is like they are actively attempting to initiate a dystopian cyber-punk reality. How short sighted do you have to be to think that such an existence wouldn't be a good thing for them. These disgusting little toads will be left for dead at the first sign of trouble, have they learnt nothing from Robocop?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:17 
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On the plus side, that would reduce the number of older people making demands on the NHS that cannot be supported by future dependency ratios.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:18 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
These disgusting little toads will be left for dead at the first sign of trouble, have they learnt nothing from Robocop?


:DD

Oh man, I love this place. :p

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:19 
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Kern wrote:
On the plus side, that would reduce the number of older people making demands on the NHS that cannot be supported by future dependency ratios.

And those pesky disableds won't be causing too much of a strain on the system either.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:23 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
But even that doesn't make sense. They would make much more money by running a corrupt NHS than having to take back handers from corporate groups and they would be responsible for their own corruption rather than in a blackmailable position from a corporate sponsor.


Partly this :

Lonewolves wrote:
It's because they are lobbied by their rich mates who happen to own these private healthcare companies. And in return they get to sit on the boards of these companies once they retire from politics.


Partly short term (get all the money out now) and partly that when they have done this then they continue to make money even when they are not in charge and can change / modify / influence what the NHS is doing now - if Labour won the next election (unlikely I know) but they could put a stop to their money making schemes , if instead of an NHS we have private healthcare then no-one will be able to remake the NHS and the payments will just keep coming in.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:24 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
These disgusting little toads will be left for dead at the first sign of trouble, have they learnt nothing from Robocop?


Serve the public trust
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:44 
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DIRECTIVE 4, dudes. It's *so* the way forward for us evil Tories.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:20 
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Newspaper folds?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:26 
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MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:28 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.


STAND BACK AND ADMIRE THE AWESOMENESS OF MY JOKE CITIZEN. "NEWSPAPER FOLDS". GENIUS, IS THAT. BE COWED AT THE LEVEL OF CLEVERNESS IN THE USE OF MY WORDS.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:32 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.


STAND BACK AND ADMIRE THE AWESOMENESS OF MY JOKE CITIZEN. "NEWSPAPER FOLDS". GENIUS, IS THAT. BE COWED AT THE LEVEL OF CLEVERNESS IN THE USE OF MY WORDS.

It was pretty obvious, but I suppose not bad given your usual fare.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:32 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.


STAND BACK AND ADMIRE THE AWESOMENESS OF MY JOKE CITIZEN. "NEWSPAPER FOLDS". GENIUS, IS THAT. BE COWED AT THE LEVEL OF CLEVERNESS IN THE USE OF MY WORDS.

Witness the rare "self-five"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:33 
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DavPaz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.


STAND BACK AND ADMIRE THE AWESOMENESS OF MY JOKE CITIZEN. "NEWSPAPER FOLDS". GENIUS, IS THAT. BE COWED AT THE LEVEL OF CLEVERNESS IN THE USE OF MY WORDS.

Witness the rare "self-five"


It's called a "my-5"

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:36 
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MaliA wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.

STAND BACK AND ADMIRE THE AWESOMENESS OF MY JOKE CITIZEN. "NEWSPAPER FOLDS". GENIUS, IS THAT. BE COWED AT THE LEVEL OF CLEVERNESS IN THE USE OF MY WORDS.

Witness the rare "self-five"

It's called a "my-5"

It is not.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:38 
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That doesn't sound like high 5 at all so is inferior.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:43 
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I surprised it hasn't been renamed the "guy-five" by douchebros.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:55 
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Are they youtubers?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 13:59 
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MaliA wrote:
Are they youtubers?

No you're a potato

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 14:00 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Are they youtubers?

No you're a potato

Don't you bring my Irish ancestry into this. You monster

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 18:40 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.

Used to buy the paper when I was at university. Y'know, subsidised copies for 20p. It was a broadsheet back then.

Even if I was reading it still, I'd have refused to buy it again after they told people to vote Tory last May.

Their website seems to have turned into a clickbait article farm over the last few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 19:14 
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Will they still make "i"?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 19:25 
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The i will still exist. It has been bought by Johnston Press for 25 meeeellion Pounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 20:28 
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Quote:
David Cameron has been accused of buying off Tory MPs threatening to block local government cuts, after it emerged that a new £300m relief fund will overwhelmingly help Conservative areas, including his own Oxfordshire council.

The extra cash was announced after up to 30 Conservative MPs were poised to revolt against the local government finance settlement, which is due to be put to a vote on Wednesday in the House of Commons. The funding was announced by Greg Clark, the communities and local government secretary, to the delight of Tory MPs.

A Labour analysis shows that 83% of the new £300m two-year fund will go to Tory-run councils, mostly in the southern shires. It found that the biggest beneficiary will be Surrey, which will get £24m, with £19m going to Hampshire, £16m to Hertfordshire, £14m to Essex, £12m to West Sussex, £11m to Kent and £9m to Buckinghamshire. Cameron’s county council in Oxfordshire will get an additional £9m to ease the cuts over the next two years.


http://gu.com/p/4gh6a

What a shitshow of cronyism and cynical bribery politics. You can't possibly tell me with a straight face that those are the councils worst affected by the welfare cuts.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 20:41 
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Meanwhile
Quote:
Having already had its budget slashed by over £150 million since 2010, Wirral Council’s spending power per household is set to be cut further still by £106; from £1,759 this year to £1,653 in 2017-18. The average cut in spending power per dwelling across England is £67.

Meanwhile the Government is affording more generous protection to wealthier southern areas:

- West Berkshire households will have spending cut by £29, from £1,722 to £1,693 per dwelling
- Surrey will see a cut per household of £28, from £1,677 to £1,649
- Richmond upon Thames households will have spending cut by £63, from £1,896 to £1,836 per dwelling
- West Sussex will see a cut per household of £25, from £1,414 to £1,389



http://www.frankfield.co.uk/latest-news ... ?p=1021194


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 21:57 
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Anonymous X wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MaliA wrote:

The Independent hasn't been a newspaper for years.

Used to buy the paper when I was at university. Y'know, subsidised copies for 20p. It was a broadsheet back then.

Even if I was reading it still, I'd have refused to buy it again after they told people to vote Tory last May.

Their website seems to have turned into a clickbait article farm over the last few years.

Technically they wanted another Con/Lib coalition, but yeah, I can't imagine it pleased their core readership.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:01 
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Lonewolves wrote:
It was pretty obvious, but I suppose not bad given your usual fare.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:06 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
It was pretty obvious, but I suppose not bad given your usual fare.

Image

Nice. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:18 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

http://gu.com/p/4gh6a

What a shitshow of cronyism and cynical bribery politics. You can't possibly tell me with a straight face that those are the councils worst affected by the welfare cuts.


Agreed. Makes you sick, doesn't it?

As I said at the Cottage, politicians are dicks by default, nepotism and cynicism is rife. At least in the old days there would have been at least some attempt to dress this up, but now? Shit. Does anyone bat an eyelid at this - or even care beyond the apathy of The X Factor or some "box set" or other...? If 2 million people on the streets pre-Iraq made not one whit of difference, what chance would getting miffed about "mere" stuff like this have? Yeah, call me a tired, cynical old bastard - and you'd be right - but y'know, "meh" etc. It ain't changing.

For me, the best we can hope for is, notwithstanding shit like this, at least run the economy right - to give the rest of us at least a chance to make good. Back in 2008/9, Cavey inc. very nearly went down the tubes (and would've done were it not for a very lucky, large contract that could not be pulled, which saw us through the worst times). Now, whatever you or anyone else protests to the contrary, in the face of all evidence and third party appraisals from the likes of the IMF etc., the economic weather in the UK at least - in stark contrast to many other places - gives SMEs like us at least *a chance*. That's what we (i.e. business) vote Tory for, notwithstanding there are many, many things that I/we loathe and would do different, and feel like a good scrub after coming out of the voting booth.

With you and your ilk, it truly seems to me that you vote/think the way you do because it "feels right", even though the outcomes - time and again - point otherwise. Consider the alternative to this Tory administration that you loathe so completely and fervently (and the sort of antics like this, which we both deplore). That alternative: Labour.

Tell me, was there ever a more useless, more inept, more cynical administration in the UK? I mean, do I have to spell out, yet again, not only the catastrophic economic and legacy failures and missed opportunities of where we were in 1997 and where we ended up in 2008/10? And please, since we're being really honest with each other, don't give me all that "it was the world wot dunnit guv" bullshit; we all know just how big a chunk "London" (The City) was, and still is, in respect of the total that is this [finance/banking] "world" - and whose job it was to properly regulate and ameliorate risks from this very large chunk of this "world". (Then there are, of course, the countless other billions pissed away on failed projects, public sector pay rises, foreign wars off the back of lies etc., but we've done many of these to death too).

I suppose one acid test was Margaret Thatcher and her recent death. A divisive figure, certainly; the very mention of her name seems to send people like you, :attitude: etc. into paroxisms of hatred, however bizarre that is to me, as someone who was there in 1979 and remembers, first hand, how utterly hopeless your average Brit felt at that time as against a backdrop of union shits metaphorically slashing the seats and doing us all down in one final act of mindless and endlessly stupid political and economic vandalism. I have to remember that for many of you guys this is simply unimaginable; I remind myself the same thing when listening to that animated little twerp Owen Jones who looks about 18 and three-quarters. Late 1970s Bankrupt Britain might as well have been on a different planet to today's UK, for all its problems.

When Thatcher died, notwithstanding all the terrible things that people like you say she did to ordinary folk; yet it was these ordinary rank and file Brits, not Lords and Ladies, who lined those streets. Yes there were bonfires in Scotland (I'd expect nothing less; just look at their so-called 'grievomax' chip-on-shoulder politics now, makes Greece's political arena look like Finland's), but no-one is ever going to tell me that many people - myself included - did not revere her for what we think and know she did, pulling us back from Labour's/the Union's precipice where no-one else would, nor could.

So then, who will mourn Blair's death when it comes? Hah! Thatcher is/was divisive, but he's surely universally reviled and utterly loathed. There he is, Labour's "most successful" leader of all time, who never had to make so much as a fraction of one percent of the kind of decisions that Thatcher had to do back in 1979. He had it all: and just look what he did with it, says it ALL. Be careful what you wish for and be mindful of the alternatives, eh; grass greener, much? (As for Brown, well, he might not be hated as much but pretty much everyone agrees he was absolutely hopeless).

So yeah, anyway. Where am I going with this; dunno really, I guess I'm saying shit like this is going to happen either way, so we might as well have economic competency with it, to at least give ordinary schmucks like you and me half a chance? From where I'm standing there is no moral high ground here, because politics/political parties stink.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:19 
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It's pretty amazing he's still doing the "don't like the Tories? You must be an uncritical supporter of Blair/Brown/Corbyn/Owen Jones" schtick.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:26 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
It was pretty obvious, but I suppose not bad given your usual fare.

Image

How long have you had that saved to your desktop waiting for the perfect moment to drop it in?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:27 
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Anonymous X wrote:
It's pretty amazing he's still doing the "don't like the Tories? You must be an uncritical supporter of Blair/Brown/Corbyn/Owen Jones" schtick.


Sigh, whatever, troll. *goes to user control panel*

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:29 
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Mimi wrote:
How long have you had that saved to your desktop waiting for the perfect moment to drop it in?
Saw it on Twitter this very morning and (obviously) immediately did a search for posts containing the word 'bad' written by LoneWolves. I'm only human.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:32 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Mimi wrote:
How long have you had that saved to your desktop waiting for the perfect moment to drop it in?
Saw it on Twitter this very morning and (obviously) immediately did a search for posts containing the word 'bad' written by LoneWolves. I'm only human.

Stop joining in the dogpile!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:33 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm only human.

We prefer the term huperson, actually.

(My phone wanted to change that to hypersonic, and wanted to let it)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:38 
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DavPaz wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I'm only human.

We prefer the term huperson, actually.

(My phone wanted to change that to hypersonic, and wanted to let it)

Pfft, you are bad (sorry, goodly challenged) at etymology. Man (mann) used to refer to both male and female in Old English (hence mankind, man the ramparts, etc). Wer (m) and wif (f) were the gender pronouns at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:53 
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But they aren't anymore, those words were the defined by people who were oppressing thousands of people. To continue to use the words of a people such as that shows a complete disregard to the struggles the oppressed underwent at the time and still undergo in an attempt to free themselves from the bonds of items such as "gender pronouns"!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 13:57 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
But they aren't anymore, those words were the defined by people who were oppressing thousands of people. To continue to use the words of a people such as that shows a complete disregard to the struggles the oppressed underwent at the time and still undergo in an attempt to free themselves from the bonds of items such as "gender pronouns"!

But I am talking dispassionately about words as they appear in the dictionary. This is fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 14:07 
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Except, of course, when it's not.

Which is somewhat arbitrary.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 14:07 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Except, of course, when it's not.

Which is somewhat arbitrary.

:facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 14:11 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Bobbyaro wrote:
But they aren't anymore, those words were the defined by people who were oppressing thousands of people. To continue to use the words of a people such as that shows a complete disregard to the struggles the oppressed underwent at the time and still undergo in an attempt to free themselves from the bonds of items such as "gender pronouns"!

But I am talking dispassionately about words as they appear in the dictionary. This is fine.

That isn't for you to decide! :)

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