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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 15:17 
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SavyGamer

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https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/915570818876362752


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 16:30 
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Prince of Fops

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Re gun control or the lack thereof, this is insane and fascinating in equal measure.

https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 18:16 
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Everybodys gilf

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Findus Fop wrote:
Re gun control or the lack thereof, this is insane and fascinating in equal measure.

https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns


The rules behind what they can and cannot do really do appear to be a criminal attempt to prevent ever identifying a gun owner from their gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 21:29 
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Marina Hyde is a national treasure.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 22:21 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Marina Hyde is a national treasure.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... conference


Brilliant stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:08 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
Findus Fop wrote:
Re gun control or the lack thereof, this is insane and fascinating in equal measure.

https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal-bureau-of-way-too-many-guns


The rules behind what they can and cannot do really do appear to be a criminal attempt to prevent ever identifying a gun owner from their gun.


Bloody hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:50 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Remember this sign from a while back? No?
Well, to refresh:

Parking behind the CoOp was 20 mins free. Then signs and ANPR appeared, and you had to type car reg in to get 20 free minutes. Many didn't, and were fined as per T&Cs.

Anyhoo, I dropped a note to local counciller and local MP over the signs not being terribly clear. Counciller responded and he had passed it over to MP. So, MP raises the issue in Parliament, and sends me half a dozen letters with copies of his correspondance with the council solicitors, parking ombudsman and other people.

Today, in the local paper reports:
Quote:
THE operator of a controversial car park has been ordered to shut it down and refund thousands of pounds in fines slapped on unsuspecting motorists.

Bradford Council took the dramatic step after receiving a host of complaints about the way private car park company Smart Parking was running the site at Oastler Road, Saltaire.

The authority was able to step in after discovering that the patch of land had never legally been turned into a car park and was still part of the public highway.

But in doing so, the Council has also had to hold its hands up to running the car park illegally itself for more than a decade, and now faces a major refund programme of its own.


http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... ial_fines/

Which is amazing. And has amused me.

So, I think P Davies will do OK in an election, again, as he's shown himself to be looking after community interests, especially as the council is a Labour run one and fingers can be pointed.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:17 
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Rude Belittler

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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That article about the ATF is mental. On one hand, the NRAtards are saying "we need guns in case we need to stand up against the government!" And on the other they are so bloody terrified of the government taking away their guns that it is illegal for the ATF to have computer records. You can't have it both ways, idiots.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:06 
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Gogmagog

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Pundabaya wrote:
That article about the ATF is mental. On one hand, the NRAtards are saying "we need guns in case we need to stand up against the government!" And on the other they are so bloody terrified of the government taking away their guns that it is illegal for the ATF to have computer records. You can't have it both ways, idiots.


It's brilliant in its idiocy.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 13:44 
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw

Bloody hell.

Quote:
The archbishop of York has attacked the "new and terrible" blight of food poverty and increasing malnutrition in Britain, questioned the effects of the government's welfare reforms and called for a renewal of the postwar spirit that hungered for "a more equitable, more caring world".
...
Reports of malnutrition and food poverty in Yorkshire "disgrace us all, leaving a dark stain on our consciences", he said. "How can it be that last year more than 27,000 people were diagnosed as suffering from malnutrition in Leeds – not Lesotho, not Liberia, not Lusaka but Leeds?"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 14:07 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Welcome to the North.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 14:07 
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I'm a computery guy!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 15:45 
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Rock steady gaze

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/19/food-poverty-archbishop-york-john-sentamu?CMP=share_btn_tw

Bloody hell.

Quote:
The archbishop of York has attacked the "new and terrible" blight of food poverty and increasing malnutrition in Britain, questioned the effects of the government's welfare reforms and called for a renewal of the postwar spirit that hungered for "a more equitable, more caring world".
...
Reports of malnutrition and food poverty in Yorkshire "disgrace us all, leaving a dark stain on our consciences", he said. "How can it be that last year more than 27,000 people were diagnosed as suffering from malnutrition in Leeds – not Lesotho, not Liberia, not Lusaka but Leeds?"


For once I agree. It's a fucking disgrace and utterly perplexing. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 22:12 
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More Project Fear nonsense from the pathetic Remoaners at the (checks notes) Daily Telegraph.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 22:14 
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Cropped version, easier to read.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:15 
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:3

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Fuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:15 
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Location: Oxford
Andrew Lloyd-Webber retires from the House of Lords. Good for the country in a roundabout way.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:20 
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Gogmagog

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Kern wrote:
Andrew Lloyd-Webber retires from the House of Lords. Good for the country in a roundabout way.


He'll return for the encore.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:00 
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Rock steady gaze

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9181
Another massive 52,000 drop in unemployment:

Quote:
UK unemployment fell by 52,000 in the three months to August to 1.4 million, leaving the jobless rate unchanged at 4.3% from the previous quarter - still at the lowest level since 1975.

...

There were 32.1 million people in work in the UK in the three-month period, 94,000 more than in the previous three-month period and 317,000 more than in the same period in 2016.
The employment rate was 75.1%, up from 74.5% a year earlier, while the total number of unemployed people was 215,000 than at the same time last year.

...

Senior ONS statistician Matt Hughes said: "Many labour market measures continue to strengthen. Employment growth in the latest three-month period was driven mainly by women, with a corresponding drop in inactivity. Vacancies remain robust, at a near-record level."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41664964

In other news, I see the FTSE250 has rocketed 130-odd points already this morning (to highest ever levels), the FTSE100 also rising (also to highest ever levels), and even the pound is doing okay. Yeah, it all sounds so terrible! :(

Maybe not everyone thinks we're doooooooooooooooooooooooomed then.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 13:32 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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More working people than ever are poor though, so yay for having a job that leaves you below the poverty line!

Also, I see notes Left Wing Icon George Osborne now says that Labour were not to blame overall for the financial crisis and that they did the right things once it happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 14:15 
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Rock steady gaze

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9181
Curiosity wrote:
More working people than ever are poor though, so yay for having a job that leaves you below the poverty line!

Also, I see notes Left Wing Icon George Osborne now says that Labour were not to blame overall for the financial crisis and that they did the right things once it happened.


Megaheh.
It's funny isn't it, how good ol' George has changed his tune. Nothing to do with his new found Ball of Simmering Jealousy and Resentment (tm) Status as regards Theresa May and the Conservative Party in general, oh no. Definitely not. Honest. :roll:

Maybe he should revisit Gordon Brown's apology on that score; I've linked to it so many times, but it never hurts to do so yet again I find, especially for the slow ones at the back. Because, y'know, he was only Prime Minister at the time, and hitherto the Chancellor of the Exchequer for (too many) years before that:

Quote:
Gordon Brown has admitted he made a "big mistake" over the handling of financial regulation in the run-up to the banking crisis of 2008.

The former prime minister told a US conference he had not realised the "entanglements" of global institutions.

He said: "We set up the FSA [the City regulator] believing the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution. That was the big mistake.
"We didn't understand just how entangled things were."


Wow that sounds like the government was competent to discharge its absolutely crucial, fundamental and critical statutory duty to successfully regulate the banks and financial sector, eh readers? The guy openly admits to not knowing "how entangled things were". Marvelous stuff, eh George? :roll:

Quote:
Addressing the Institute for New Economic Thinking in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, Mr Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate.
"We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said.
"So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake.


Please continue Mr Brown. :insincere:

Quote:
"We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13032013

I think that just about wraps things up, then, don't you? The abject doublethink, supreme conceit and perpetual state of revisionist denial of the Left and its sorry, deluded proponents never ceases to irritate and amaze me (not in a good way), in equal measure. Even when the facts are laid before you all, there's still this absurd cognitive dissonance. As a normal person, I am the first to apply critical faculties and squarely, 100% lay the blame for the failed gambit that is Brexit at the Conservative Party's door, and have said so many times, yet I am also able to give fair credit where it's due, such as in matters of achieving the lowest levels of unemployment for two consecutive generations. You know, minor stuff like that. Good eh?

Let's be honest, Curio, you and your ilk will never give an inch, you'll never admit to being pleased about anything this or previous right of centre governments or parties achieve, because that's how it is around here and so it will ever be thus. Personally I find it rather pathetic, but there we go.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 14:23 
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Lupine member

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Ah yes, the Tory party, who definitely would've defied the City and implemented tougher regulation, thus avoiding the crash altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 14:24 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Yes, the city was under regulated (and for a lot of relevant matters it still is). Brown was attacked by the Conservatives for having too much regulation, so would obviously not have clamped down and stopped the economy growing via harsh regulation.

Yes, the dice fell when Labour were in charge, but not one single economist or politician lays the blame for the global economic crisis at the door of Labour. Yes, they have had criticism for how we could have been better placed to weather the storm, and yes they have been criticised for their response (though not much on that side, to be honest).

If the global economic crisis were the fault of Labour, do you not think that other countries might be a bit more pissed off with them? Do you not think that if Gordon Brown was the singular point of failure for a global meltdown that caused a ton of shit for all developed economies for years on end, he'd be a bit more vilified? Fox News would be all over him!

But nobody blames him for it, because he obvious, obviously wasn't to blame for it. And he never claimed to be, and nobody in Labour has ever claimed that they were responsible for the US sub-prime fiasco that kicked it all off. Under-regulated, sure, but that's just about the UK's exposure to it, not the cause.

I'm happy to accept any failures that Labour makes. I have voted for them only twice in my life; I'm not a member and I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool fanatic that won't accept that they fuck up. Look at the Iraq war! Look at the NHS privatisation parts they ballsed up. There's plenty of stuff they did that was rubbish. Trying to paint me as a yes man for their government is just daft.

And yeah, you accept the Tories buggered up Brexit, but don't pretend you don't look for positive news stories and defend them on those, whilst ignoring all the bloody awful news about other statistics. Yes, unemployment being low is good, but you can't then just shut the door and pretend there's nothing else that matters. Living standards, poverty, reliance on food banks, an underfunded NHS... these things exist too.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 14:29 
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Curiosity wrote:
but you can't then just shut the door and pretend there's nothing else that matters.

Ha ha fucking hell. Do you not reckon? :DD


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 14:50 
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Gogmagog

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I reckon the mea culpa was a hope to make it all go away.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 15:59 
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Rock steady gaze

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
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Curiosity wrote:
Yes, the city was under regulated (and for a lot of relevant matters it still is). Brown was attacked by the Conservatives for having too much regulation, so would obviously not have clamped down and stopped the economy growing via harsh regulation.

Yes, the dice fell when Labour were in charge, but not one single economist or politician lays the blame for the global economic crisis at the door of Labour. Yes, they have had criticism for how we could have been better placed to weather the storm, and yes they have been criticised for their response (though not much on that side, to be honest).

If the global economic crisis were the fault of Labour, do you not think that other countries might be a bit more pissed off with them? Do you not think that if Gordon Brown was the singular point of failure for a global meltdown that caused a ton of shit for all developed economies for years on end, he'd be a bit more vilified? Fox News would be all over him!

But nobody blames him for it, because he obvious, obviously wasn't to blame for it. And he never claimed to be, and nobody in Labour has ever claimed that they were responsible for the US sub-prime fiasco that kicked it all off. Under-regulated, sure, but that's just about the UK's exposure to it, not the cause.

I'm happy to accept any failures that Labour makes. I have voted for them only twice in my life; I'm not a member and I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool fanatic that won't accept that they fuck up. Look at the Iraq war! Look at the NHS privatisation parts they ballsed up. There's plenty of stuff they did that was rubbish. Trying to paint me as a yes man for their government is just daft.

And yeah, you accept the stories buggered up Brexit, but don't pretend you don't look for positive news stories and defend them on those, whilst ignoring all the bloody awful news about other statistics. Yes, unemployment being low is good, but you can't then just shut the door and pretend there's nothing else that matters. Living standards, poverty, reliance on food banks, an underfunded NHS... these things exist too.


Ah Curio, you do make me laugh.
So, "the dice fell" for Labour.... :DD Too bad the fucking idiots had been in power for fully 11 years by 2008, so fundamentally (as an absolute non-optional *keystone* of their governmental duty and prime responsibility), anything which needed doing should have been done by them and then some. (But of course, they *did* do a great deal of stuff like gleefully tearing down the hitherto almost entirely successful regulatory regime that *was* in place before their unfortunate arrival, and replaced it with a demonstrably - and empirically proven useless set up, most notably the FSA.

You say not one politician lays any blame toward Labour for the catastrophic failure of the UK's financial sector, with a straight face, even as the verbatim words of their former Prime Minister Gordon Brown (er, a politician), in direct response to and as a consequence of his manifold political detractors and critics, are directly presented to you mere minutes before your post, upon which you are directly responding to (let alone great swathes of the Conservative Parliamentary Party and the fact they've fought three elections - and been the party of government as a result - on the back of this specific Labour failure, and their overspending in general. But of course, you know this). This is what I meant earlier when I cited the wanton doublethink of the Left and its proponents; I actually think you believe it when you type.

Leaving aside the above indisputable and rather obvious points re. UK politicians' assessment of Labour's political culpability, I would also briefly mention the multi-billion pound fines specifically levied on the City of London and the UK banks in the post-crash years, as a direct result of their fraud and/or other misconducts, upon which as the government of the day (and for 11 years prior, as mentioned), Labour were responsible for regulating and so by implication are partly to blame, hence Gordon Brown's (and Ed Balls') apologies, one imagines.

As for me "defending Brexit" that is yet another figment of your imagination I'm sorry to say. Just because I don't believe in trying to talk the country down into the gutter and/or indulging in months/years of post-Brexit vote blood-letting and devisive grievomax non-stop whinging does not make me a "supporter" or anything like, and nor does pointing out that actually, despite some of the absurd claims of others, the UK economy is in rather rude health by recent historical standards and none moreso than in matters of unemployment, which was the specific example I cited. This is a politics debate thread; for me personally, I tire of all the whining and moaning, but then I'm of the roll yer sleeves up and get on with it brigade. For better or worse and despite all the many lies, the people have voted.

I was the also the first to agree with even Gaywood - on this very page - about the disgusting and perplexing status of modern day poverty among the working poor in this country, and I personally do quite a lot to try to prevent it, like giving thousands of pounds of my own money in the last week, spending only last Friday evening waiting on and washing up for hours at a large scale charity dinner whilst Mrs C was slaving for hours in a hot commercial kitchen. Doing is better than talking.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 17:33 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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It's not my fault you don't understand the difference between the cause of an event and how what is in place at such a time changes the way the effects play out.

But sure, Gordon Brown caused the sub-prime fiasco, caused Lehman Brothers to go under, trashed the US economy, the European economy, and personally took a hammer to the global economy, whilst everyone else looked on and begged him to just shut down those banks!

He probably did it on purpose too, the rotter!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 17:36 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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P.S. An autocorrect in my original post may have given the indication I was saying you defend Brexit (it changed Tories to stories). I was intending to say you accept their blame for Brexit, but tend to search for 'Tories done good' stories, paying less heed to the 'Tories done bad' ones.

Apols for the typo.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 17:48 
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Rock steady gaze

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9181
Yup, that's me told alright.
Nice one Curio, you'll never change. :DD

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 18:51 
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Rude Belittler

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 4187
Here's one for you then, Cavey. Name a Labour MP that you'd vote for... Let's imagine the most milquetoast Tory candidate you can think of. You have the whole history of Labour MPs to put up against this below average nitwit. Choose one.


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