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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 15:12 
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Although I don't know much at all about Spanish and Catalan politics, I can't help thinking that footage of Guardia Civil using violence against protestors is only going to aid the Catalan cause.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 16:27 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Kern wrote:
Although I don't know much at all about Spanish and Catalan politics, I can't help thinking that footage of Guardia Civil using violence against protestors is only going to aid the Catalan cause.

I think we all know what will happen if they tolerate this.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 16:47 
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Won't someone think of the children.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 20:30 
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Kern wrote:
Although I don't know much at all about Spanish and Catalan politics, I can't help thinking that footage of Guardia Civil using violence against protestors is only going to aid the Catalan cause.

Well quite. Why not let them have the vote and then say it's not legitimate. Sending police in to beat up elderly women and forcibly remove ballot boxes from schools is only going to prove their point.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 21:26 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Kern wrote:
Although I don't know much at all about Spanish and Catalan politics, I can't help thinking that footage of Guardia Civil using violence against protestors is only going to aid the Catalan cause.

I think we all know what will happen if they tolerate this.


Kernow.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:52 
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Rock steady gaze

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Nationalism. Great isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:03 
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Cavey wrote:
Nationalism. Great isn't it?


I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I'm going to be more general than specific on this because I don't know much about this particular case and whilst it's the Internet and these things don't matter, I'd rather throw ideas and propositions out for them to be tested and willing to be educated.

It's more a question of when should unjust laws (or laws perceived to be unjust) be obeyed, what steps should a sovereign entity take to enforce its laws, and how should they respond when the orders of the supreme court are not respected. I don't know what a good responds from the Spanish authorities would look like, but I'm definitely convinced that this isn't it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:45 
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Rock steady gaze

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Kern wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Nationalism. Great isn't it?


I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I'm going to be more general than specific on this because I don't know much about this particular case and whilst it's the Internet and these things don't matter, I'd rather throw ideas and propositions out for them to be tested and willing to be educated.

It's more a question of when should unjust laws (or laws perceived to be unjust) be obeyed, what steps should a sovereign entity take to enforce its laws, and how should they respond when the orders of the supreme court are not respected. I don't know what a good responds from the Spanish authorities would look like, but I'm definitely convinced that this isn't it.


I was making a very generic statement: fundamentally, nationalism and its inherent "them vs. us" othering and polarisation of peoples, often living in very close proximity, is a root cause of the symptoms observed time and again the world over, historically and even now in the supposed civilised 21st century, within a major EU State.

This high level comment was hardly intended as justifying the actions of the Spanish State, in fact it was intended as the total opposite, but then, the Catalan political elite themselves seem to have a lot to answer for too. The stock in trade of nationalism: get 'em angry; get some fervor whipped up about how 'unfair' it all is; how great 'we' are vs. how crap 'they' are; get the grass-greener-on-other-side/land of milk & honey grievance narrative going and, with luck, the thing gathers momentum to become self-perpetuating? Nationalism: we see it rearing its ugly head all over the world as History has taught us nothing; Trump's "America First", the rise of the Far Right even in Germany; our own home-grown SNP and the seemingly endless, soul-crushing stream of grievance that pours forth from various outlets like some filthy, reeking, never ending tide of bitter bile and hate. Simply put: it is nothing less than the scourge of our age.

As a One Nation small-c Conservative, I find the whole thing distasteful beyond the pale; the middle ground is increasingly abandoned for one ridiculously swivel-eyed political extreme to the next (and the Conservative Party is far from immune)

Man it's depressing. The world has taken leave of its senses?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:27 
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Boris Johnson said Sirte in Libya will be a great tourist destination once they've "cleared the dead bodies." How is this man employed? Would he have said this about Las Vegas or Barcelona? No, of course he wouldn't. So why did he say it about Libya, hmmm?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:32 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Boris Johnson said Sirte in Libya will be a great tourist destination once they've "cleared the dead bodies." How is this man employed? Would he have said this about Las Vegas or Barcelona? No, of course he wouldn't. So why did he say it about Libya, hmmm?


He really, really, wants to get out. Must be only explanation

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:43 
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I fear he's copying Mr Trump's approach. It keeps him in the headlines, disgusts moderates, but delights the hardcore in the party and makes him immovable.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:44 
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Or he's just a total cunt who forgot that he wasn't talking exclusively to his cunt friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:44 
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Was anyone here ever in any doubt, ever, that Boris is a self-promoting tit and total liability who appears to be on perma-leadership campaign mode - or that it beggars belief, and defies all logic that he continues to be a major figure in government? I struggle to see this as either news or a point to be debated, most especially as against a backdrop, for example, where Catalonia stands at the brink of UDI and Spain's partial or total disintegration no less is at stake, with possibly far worse than Brexit implications for the EU?

Still, Boris says something stupid. Again. :roll:
Bigger picture etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:48 
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https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/10/ev ... conference

Quote:
The Tories love Ruth Davidson

Half the conference auditorium gave her a standing ovation when she arrived. The whole of the room gave her a standing ovation when she left. Then most of them cleared out, which must have made Northern Ireland secretary James Brokenshire feel brilliant, as he was trying to read a speech at them at the time.

In between her two ovations, Ruth mostly spoke about unity: "We're not Leavers or Remains any more. We're just Brits." This is a message you can only send if you don't have to get your hands dirty with Brexit negotiations, but the room lapped it up.

Afterwards she was to be seen making coffee for people at the fake Starbucks in a room called the "London Lounge", just like any other Scottish politician with no ambition to one day lead the Conservative party.


Increasingly think Davidison is a future leadership candidate who is very carefully staying out of the blast radius of Brexit for now. Which is smart. Which suggests we're not being led by the smart folks during Brexit. Hurrah!

Quote:
The Tories still don't grasp the wage problem

Over and over again I heard Tory MPs or ministers congratulate themselves on the record high employment rate. This makes for an incredibly competitive labour market, employment minister Damian Hinds argued.

And yet, if competition for employees was so high, you’d expect wages to be rising, wouldn't you? But they're not: they've basically flat-lined for a decade. And with the pound in free fall, real wages are actually falling. People may be in work – but often it isn’t well-paid or secure work.

"You've never had it so good," strikes me as an argument that will only work when it's actually true.


So why aren't wages rising if employment is so good, then? Why aren't employers competing harder to find employees?

Quote:
Some in the Tory party want to get serious about the housing problem...

Some honourable mentions:

James Jamieson, leader of Central Bedfordshire, who expressed frustration his council didn't have the cash to build more homes, and suggested it might be more sensible to build on some of the scubbier green belt immediately adjacent to London, rather than in commuter towns 50 miles from the city.

Richard Bacon, the MP for South Norfolk, who all but frothed with rage at his party's NIMBY tendencies, and who described Help to Buy as "deeply intellectually flawed and bad".

The leader of a Thatcherite think tank, who told me: "I increasingly think the state should start building again."

It shouldn't be any surprise that the Tories are panicking about the housing crisis, since there's compelling evidence that the precipitous fall in home ownership is a major factor behind the collapse in the party's support among the under 50s. And yet...

...a lot of them don't

There are still plenty of Tories who are far more vocal in their opposition to development than in their support for solutions. And so far, the only significant housing policy coming from Downing Street is yet more funding for Help To Buy, a Cameron-era programme premised on the mystifying assumption that throwing more money at demand for housing will somehow make it more affordable.

The Harrow East MP Bob Blackman summed up the problem when he said: "How do we ensure affordable housing for young people without reducing value of homes people already live in?" Well. Quite.


The Conservatives should be panicking about the "youth" vote. I say "youth" because the crossover age -- the age at which you are more likely to vote Conservative than Labour -- is now 47. People under 45 are 2/3rds Labour voters. This isn't just about idealistic teenagers who will grow out of it, this is people well into middle age. And there's strong correlation between swings against the Conservatives and people who can't afford to get on the housing ladder -- a demographic that is growning fast (analysis here.)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:50 
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Ruth Davidson is the grown-up George from the 'Famous Five'.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:52 
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I confuse Ruth Davidson with that Scottish lady who is on Strictly at the moment. She's a comedian I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
The Conservatives should be panicking about the "youth" vote. I say "youth" because the crossover age -- the age at which you are more likely to vote Conservative than Labour -- is now 47. People under 45 are 2/3rds Labour voters. This isn't just about idealistic teenagers who will grow out of it, this is people well into middle age. And there's strong correlation between swings against the Conservatives and people who can't afford to get on the housing ladder -- a demographic that is growning fast (analysis here.)


And being the party of Brexit is only going to remind those young people of why the party doesn't represent them. Heck, if I were advising Mr Corbyn (my fees are reasonable), I'd get him and the cabinet to say 'disastrous Tory Brexit' in every sentence so the party is forever linked to the ['amazing opportunity' - Dr Liam Fox].


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:53 
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Rock steady gaze

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And yet, Labour finished a dismal second, netting just three seats more than their 2010 post Banking Depression collapse under Brown, despite being up against the absolute worst Conservative campaign and candidate in living memory.

Speaks volumes, I'd say.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:08 
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Giphy "second comes right after first!":
https://media2.giphy.com/media/K7UlmN6mY0f3a/giphy-loop.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:09 
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I was thinking of a Simpsons quote.. Giphy and I are clearly not on the same page.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:11 
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Rock steady gaze

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TheVision wrote:
I was thinking of a Simpsons quote.. Giphy and I are clearly not on the same page.


Au contraire, I think a camp dancing poodle sums up Labour's electoral "success" quite nicely, Vision. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:12 
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Cavey wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I was thinking of a Simpsons quote.. Giphy and I are clearly not on the same page.


Au contraire, I think a camp dancing poodle sums up Labour's electoral "success" quite nicely, Vision. :D


That's actual footage from the most recent round of Brexit talks.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:15 
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Rock steady gaze

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Kern wrote:
Cavey wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I was thinking of a Simpsons quote.. Giphy and I are clearly not on the same page.


Au contraire, I think a camp dancing poodle sums up Labour's electoral "success" quite nicely, Vision. :D


That's actual footage from the most recent round of Brexit talks.


Oh, I don't doubt it.
There're very few options for non-idiot, moderate, sensible voters these days; talk about Hobson's Choice. One plonker after another.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:20 
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Cavey wrote:
There're very few options for non-idiot, moderate, sensible voters these days


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:23 
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Rock steady gaze

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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:10 
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I can't ever look at Lord Buckethead and *not* think of the Black Knight.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:11 
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GazChap wrote:
I can't ever look at Lord Buckethead and *not* think of the Black Knight.


He reminds me of Moonstone on the Amiga but I think that's because I've been playing it recently and it's fresh in my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 13:10 
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During May's Speech, the 'F' falls off the motto BUILDING A COUNTRY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

Lols.

https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/9155 ... 69/video/1

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 13:13 
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*splutter*

Did anyone catch it live? Was it as much of a slow-motion car crash as people are saying it was?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 14:27 
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https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/ ... 2831318016

That's a pretty good tweet, I reckon. I daresay it came from a media handler rather than May herself, but that's a very cleverly judged foil to not only her unfortunate performance today but also the general feeling that she's a frickin' android.


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