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| Political Banter and Debate Thread https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024 |
Page 208 of 288 |
| Author: | Kern [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
The Queen: 'Prince Philip and I look forward to welcoming their Majesties King Felipe and Queen Letizia of Spain on a state visit in July.' No other visitors this year? |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 13:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I like the way the Queen wore a hat that looks like the European flag. Attachment: Screenshot 2017-06-21 at 13.39.22.png
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| Author: | Kern [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 14:15 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Let's be positive. Skimming the BBC's list and here's some instant reactions to possibly good things in the speech: Draft Tenants' Fees Bill - this could actually bring about a good change, but by the time it's gone through consultation and if it ever appears as an actual bill I fear Big Letting will have neutralised all of its provisions. Draft Domestic Violence and Abuse Bill - a serious issue and will keep an eye on what relevant organisations think of its scope and reach. Still only a draft, however. High Speed 2 Phase 2A Bill - who doesn't want to get to Crewe that bit quicker? Space Industry Bill - yay, space! |
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| Author: | BikNorton [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 14:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: High Speed 2 Phase 2A Bill - who doesn't want to get to Crewe that bit quicker? You've missed the point there - it lets people *get away from* Crewe quicker.
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 14:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Once again ignoring the most critical part of the Customs Union Quote: Customs Bill The bill will ensure: the UK has a standalone UK customs regime on exit flexibility to accommodate future trade agreements with the EU and others changes can be made to the UK's VAT and excise regimes on exit from the EU, whatever the outcome of negotiations the government can collect payments of customs duties, administer the customs regime and tackle duty evasion control over the import and export of goods Without reciprocal agreements on trading standards for goods, EU exports are dead. Tariffs are small potatoes, standards are everything. |
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| Author: | BikNorton [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 15:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Poking a bit of fun at Crewe is one thing but that's just mean. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 16:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Quote: The DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson uses a point of order to complain about Lucas calling the DUP “dinosaurs”. He says the DUP’s energy policy represents what people in Northern Ireland want. John Bercow, the Speaker, says the term “dinosaur” is not unparliamentary. He says dinosaurs survived for very many years. From graun |
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 16:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I do love Bercow sometimes |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 17:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: Once again ignoring the most critical part of the Customs Union Quote: Customs Bill The bill will ensure: the UK has a standalone UK customs regime on exit flexibility to accommodate future trade agreements with the EU and others changes can be made to the UK's VAT and excise regimes on exit from the EU, whatever the outcome of negotiations the government can collect payments of customs duties, administer the customs regime and tackle duty evasion control over the import and export of goods Without reciprocal agreements on trading standards for goods, EU exports are dead. Tariffs are small potatoes, standards are everything. It's years since I've done this but as I recall the tariff resolves the standards issue by itself. You cant import shit into the EU unless it's on the tariff and for goods subject to standards only those that meet the standards can get through the tariff. You then have a question as to whether the EU would let the UK institutes certify that the standards are met. However, local certification works for other jurisdictions outside the eu already by reciprocity and audit of samples I believe so that's not insurmountable. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 17:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
It's not insurmountable, but it needs to be done. The very idea of creating a customs bill that doesn't have as one of its headline points reciprocity of certification is madness. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 18:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: It's not insurmountable, but it needs to be done. The very idea of creating a customs bill that doesn't have as one of its headline points reciprocity of certification is madness. You can't legislate a principle or a future treaty though. Reciprocity is part of the negotiations. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 18:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: Cras wrote: It's not insurmountable, but it needs to be done. The very idea of creating a customs bill that doesn't have as one of its headline points reciprocity of certification is madness. You can't legislate a principle or a future treaty though. Reciprocity is part of the negotiations. Everything listed there under the Customs bill is part of the negotiations. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Wed Jun 21, 2017 20:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjfq 25 minutes in for Boris and Eddie. Good lord, what a shitshow. |
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| Author: | DBSnappa [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tvjfq 25 minutes in for Boris and Eddie. Good lord, what a shitshow. I listened to that this morning. I genuinely don't understand how Boris Johnson has a job. He is a liar and a chancer extraordinaire and everybody must know this by now. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I listened to it this morning (although the 'please sign into radio Iplayer' can go away, please). Complete car crash, and all Boris Johnson's fault. Eddie Mair has long been the best thing on Radio Four. Long may he continue. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Don't forget he agreed to turn over a journalist's details in the knowledge that said journalist was going to get beaten up. |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:47 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
"Hang on a minute" *shuffling papers* Good god. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:49 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: (although the 'please sign into radio Iplayer' can go away, please). Despite the initial ballache this is actually very handy once you're signed in across all your various devices, to the extent I'm slightly irritated with myself for not doing it voluntarily a long time ago. |
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| Author: | Trousers [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I was listening to this live while driving home last night and sat in shitty traffic and it made the M6 more than tolerable for once. After Eddie Mair systematically dismantled him on Andrew Marr's show that time I think Boris may have gone in there looking to bluster his way into a revenge performance but Mair pulled the rug from under his feet from the get go. The Two Ronnies line in the middle of it all and Johnson's flat-footed prevarication in response made the entire thing one of my favourite pieces of radio. Potential PM. Fuck me. |
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| Author: | Kern [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Hearthly wrote: Kern wrote: (although the 'please sign into radio Iplayer' can go away, please). Despite the initial ballache this is actually very handy once you're signed in across all your various devices, to the extent I'm slightly irritated with myself for not doing it voluntarily a long time ago. I heard people moan about it on 'Feedback' recently. As usual with that programme the interview with the relevant BBC executive went along the lines of: Code: Roger Bolton: People don't like this and think it's awful.
BBC Executive: We think it's fine. Roger Bolton: Ok then. Now, we sent a listener behind the scenes on 'Farming Today' to find out what makes this programme so compelling. |
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| Author: | MrChris [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Feedback is teethgrindingly awful and pointless and is one of those things that genuinely makes me question how the licence fee is being spent. |
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| Author: | Trousers [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:00 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: I heard people moan about it on 'Feedback' recently. As usual with that programme the interview with the relevant BBC executive went along the lines of: Code: Roger Bolton: People don't like this and think it's awful. BBC Executive: We think it's fine. Roger Bolton: Ok then. Now, we sent a listener behind the scenes on 'Farming Today' to find out what makes this programme so compelling. Actually spat a bit of drink out there. "We always take on board viewer/listener feedback and can understand the frustrations but basically John Humphrys is John Humphrys, so soz not soz." |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: Squirt wrote: markg wrote: If you've got a plan then I'm all ears. Otherwise I'd also not be hearing about the awful piece of shit and seeing his stupid fucking face a hundred times a day just because I want some distraction using Twitter or whatever. It's not like we're all still not going to be acutely aware of anything that happens. We're going to overthrow him with a orchestrated campaign of hashtags, online petitions, jokes about his small hands and general self-righteousness. Twitter is clearly the place to start! What if Mexico built a wall? Oh, boy oh boy oh boy It's going to have solar power, and the higher it is, the more solar power, and it is all his idea. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Good Friday Agreement: Was one of the main drivers in getting the Republican groups to the table that the state had infiltrated them so much that about a third of their members were informers? |
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| Author: | zaphod79 [ Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ection-law Quote: Conservative party call centre 'may have broken election law'
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| Author: | devilman [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
A friend of mine posting on Facebook - Attachment: z.PNG as part of a thread she started, moaning about Corbyn being at Glastonbury (and the 'biased' BBC covering it). Part of me wants to reply and put my side across, but given that all her friends are chipping in with 'hear hear' type stuff and links to various Daily Mail stories, I think I'd be pissing in the wind. Another one to the 'hide this person's posts' list instead. 
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| Author: | Mr Russell [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
devilman wrote: A friend of mine posting on Facebook - Attachment: z.PNG as part of a thread she started, moaning about Corbyn being at Glastonbury (and the 'biased' BBC covering it). Part of me wants to reply and put my side across, but given that all her friends are chipping in with 'hear hear' type stuff and links to various Daily Mail stories, I think I'd be pissing in the wind. Another one to the 'hide this person's posts' list instead. I don't bother hiding people any more. I in friend them instead. Works better for my mental health. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I think the problem with that is you can kind of put yourself into an echo chamber where all you ever hear are your own views reflected back to you. I have a few friends on Facebook who post things I really don't like and/or agree with, but I neither hide nor unfriend them because I think it's useful to see what other people think. It's the same reason I read the Telegraph for. I'm not convinced ignorance is bliss. |
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| Author: | devilman [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Hearthly wrote: I have a few friends on Facebook who post things I really don't like and/or agree with, but I neither hide nor unfriend them because I think it's useful to see what other people think. It's the same reason I read the Telegraph for. That's usually been my opinion too (unless they're an out-and-out racist or something). I may still take an occasional peek at her posts once Brexit has kicked in fully (she voted to leave) and she's moaning about the cost of her Spanish holidays being much higher
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| Author: | Cavey [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 14:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
devilman wrote: A friend of mine posting on Facebook - Attachment: z.PNG  It's how a great many "mainstream" people feel, myself included. Corbyn's a laughable relic from the '60s and '70s, and accordingly was a national laughing stock just weeks ago - for this very reason. Two things have changed: May conducted an appallingly inept election campaign, and Corbyn promised the 'yoof' vote free tuition fees and unicorns (which as I've said, and to be fair, is entirely fair game politically speaking and intrinsically no different to Cameron's triple lock pensions etc.). A week is a very long time in politics indeed. But the fundamentally fuck-witted nature of hard left politics certainly haven't changed. I'm the last person on Earth who wants to live in an echo chamber but after 10 years or more of this, here as elsewhere, I read that post by Malc or whoever it was where pretty much everyone's politics here lay somewhere between Trotsky and making hair shirts - and Kern's general election thread where almost everyone said they'd be voting Labour (despite protestations about "hardy anyone supports Labour here" over the years (lol)), and almost all the fight went out of me and I very rarely can be bothered with it now. I mean, in the nicest possible way, it's never going to be any different irrespective of whatever proof or persuasive argument, or anything else. If I sound disappointed and depressed, well, frankly that's because I am; as someone who has voted Labour, Libdem and Tory all within a 30 year voting lifetime, I just can't imagine holding precisely the same, unmodified, impervious to the outside world views that I did in my teens before I'd seen anything of the world or humanity at large; had experienced human relationships, parenthood, running businesses... and half a lifetime of talking to, and listening to other people older and wiser than I. I suppose there's the whole mutual reinforcement-and-comfort thing going on within these uber-polarised groups, be it matters of politics or nationalism for that matter, but for me I just find the whole thing bloody depressing. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 14:58 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I'm no big fan of Corbyn, but this election was about two things for me - rejection of austerity and rejection of Brexit. Those two things add up to one real result - rejection of the (current) Tory party. May is weak and being led around by the nose by the extreme eurosceptic right of the party and the only acceptable result for me is them out of power, hopefully resulting in a centralist move as they realise the hateful politics of the party right have to end. Corbyn is popular right now not for promising unicorns, but for promising achievable social democratic policies. He's too far left for my liking, but alongside his policies he also brings the idea that we can break out of the cycle of professional over-polished politicians deciding the fate of the country off-camera while spin drives the debate. Amusingly May also appears to offer that, but through blunder not design. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 15:50 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: Corbyn is popular right now not for promising unicorns, but for promising achievable social democratic policies. achievable...? social democratic...? They're neither; the "free unicorns" jibe is far closer to the truth. You say "he's too far left for my liking" after having vindicated his policies as laudable, achievable, affordable and socially democratic - the latter describing very moderate, left-of-centre politics (as distinct from the rabidly and laughably hard left reality). Bottom line is you, and most others here have bought into this stuff for years - which is entirely your prerogative, but I CBA with it any more, frankly. Also, you'know, he's really not "popular" just now, he's just badly lost an election in one of Labour's worst drubbings for decades, and most sensible people older than 18 think he's a laughable relic from an inglorious past period of British history that marked our steep post-war decline, the like of which those 'right on' types wouldn't have the first fucking clue about. It just wasn't the complete meltdown that it would've been, had May run anything like a competent campaign. If I sound angry that's because I am incandescent - with the Conservatives, not hapless, bumbling old Labour. I absolutely cannot believe the utter fucking fist of the last 2 years they've made, what with Brexit and now this travesty of an election campaign. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 16:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Have you read the Labour manifesto? It's not some 70s SWP hard left crazy pamphlet. It's rational and realistic. If you suggested most of what's in there in 2005 most people would think it was in no way out of the ordinary at all - but the last 7 years have lurched us so far away from the idea that it's a good idea to spend tax money on public services that most people have just forgotten where the centre is. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 16:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I totally agree that the Conservatives caused this election defeat themselves. Corbyn and the Labour Party did a good job of capitalising on it (not great, but good), but the opportunities to do so were handed to them on a silver platter. |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 22:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... hael-eavis Well.... |
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| Author: | myp [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/25/jeremy-corbyn-plans-to-drop-trident-as-soon-as-possible-claims-michael-eavis Well.... Non-news isn't it? |
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| Author: | MaliA [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: MaliA wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/25/jeremy-corbyn-plans-to-drop-trident-as-soon-as-possible-claims-michael-eavis Well.... Non-news isn't it? I'm eagerly awaiting this bubble of lunacy and selective hearing to burst. |
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| Author: | TheVision [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 13:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
The DUP have their deal... and an extra £1bn over the next 2 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434 Nice negotiating from Mrs May there. |
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| Author: | Cras [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 13:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
TheVision wrote: The DUP have their deal... and an extra £1bn over the next 2 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434 Nice negotiating from Mrs May there. Quote: No Irish border poll without "consent of the people" Does that mean they'd have to have a poll to have a poll? |
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| Author: | DavPaz [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 13:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: TheVision wrote: The DUP have their deal... and an extra £1bn over the next 2 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434 Nice negotiating from Mrs May there. Quote: No Irish border poll without "consent of the people" Does that mean they'd have to have a poll to have a poll? Online survey. Legally binding |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 14:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
TheVision wrote: The DUP have their deal... and an extra £1bn over the next 2 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40403434 Nice negotiating from Mrs May there. Looks like there is a magic money tree after all! |
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| Author: | LewieP [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 15:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I would probably vote Tory if they paid me a billion pounds. |
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| Author: | TheVision [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 15:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
LewieP wrote: I would probably vote Tory if they paid me a billion pounds. ... Is a great tweet that I meant to favourite/retweet earlier on. |
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| Author: | Cavey [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 21:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Compared to the spectre of a Corbyn "government"? A billion quid looks like the bargain of the century |
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| Author: | Satsuma [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 21:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Just amazing. We, the tax payer, paid god knows how many millions for a pointless election and now we're paying over a billion pounds more just to prop up this god awful government. Did this government just forget about the economy and the deficit, schools, hospitals, the police and the NHS? How is this vast expenditure in the public good when we have public services that would love a big old cash injection. Just unfathomable idiocy from the conservatives. The same idiots who were deriding Corbyn for reaching out to the young people of voting age like a certain demographic shouldn't be engaged in politics. The sooner the conservatives implode the better. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 22:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Satsuma wrote: Just amazing. We, the tax payer, paid god knows how many millions for a pointless election and now we're paying over a billion pounds more just to prop up this god awful government. Did this government just forget about the economy and the deficit, schools, hospitals, the police and the NHS? How is this vast expenditure in the public good when we have public services that would love a big old cash injection. Just unfathomable idiocy from the conservatives. The same idiots who were deriding Corbyn for reaching out to the young people of voting age like a certain demographic shouldn't be engaged in politics. The sooner the conservatives implode the better. That's how the natural party of government rolls, man. Thank fuck they've just about managed to keep the Labour Party out, what with their evil plans of wanting some semblance of equality and the basic right for all folks to live a decent life, eh? (You know, like not getting burned to death in a giant inferno because it was £2 cheaper per square metre to fit the cladding that bursts into flames, as opposed to the cladding that doesn't.) Mrs Hearthly is a card-carrying member of the Labour Party, she joined up to help make sure Corbyn wouldn't get ousted in the leadership contest, and paid the 'enhanced' rate of the time that was being charged to try and hoof him out. She's a wonderful and lovely human being (far better than me), she doesn't really do hate at all, but as she said to me the other week on my day off when we went out for a long walk, 'I hate them, I absolutely hate them for what they've done to disabled people' - and her eyes flashed with an anger that could destroy a planet if directed with sufficient precision. Good luck in your coalition with the utterly fucking hateful DUP, you shower of Tory cunts. £1 billion eh, how many nurses does that pay for? Still, at least they've been reduced to what they basically are, straight cash bribes for whatever and whoever keeps them in power, they'll get their payback. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 23:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I'm no fan of this dirty deal at all, but I'm already tired of the how many nurses will £1bn pay for line. If there's one thing that I agree with Cavey on, it's the way that labours victory has led to a further deterioration in any form of sensible argument in the past few weeks. For a start, quite a few nurses as it goes as £200m of the bill is going to the NHS in NI. The remainder is also going on "stuff" and not just being pissed up the wall (altogether go one may reasonably question whether that is a valid spend, but there's fuck all actual discussion of that). Pointing at any spend and saying "that could be nursezzz" is fucking easy to do and lazy as fuck and reduces hugely the value of the real argument. |
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| Author: | Hearthly [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 23:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Nice job in picking up the one throwaway line from my post. The Tories have got into bed with a political horror show to cling onto power as only they know how, and £1 billion is the price on the receipt. I'm sure this lady feels a lot better though. |
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| Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 23:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I've not picked one throwaway line. I've picked a line I've seen repeatedly and lazily repeated for days over social media that dumbs down to a ludicrous degree what has happened. And thank you for ignoring my comment that opened with disliking this deal hugely. But hey, we're in a new politics now where we speak truth to power and don't just repeat bullshit media sound bites ad nauseam so I must have been mistaken. |
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| Author: | Grim... [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 23:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Also, it's not our money. |
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