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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:49 
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Gogmagog

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Lonewolves wrote:
All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful


IT IS A BURBERRY.

Or was, MrsA made me throw it away.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Curiosity wrote:
Democracy sucks.

True story.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Unfortunately none of the other methods are better at present


I wish there were some sort of quote from a great historical figure to illustrate that very point.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful


IT IS A BURBERRY.

Or was, MrsA made me throw it away.

Giphy "success":
http://media.giphy.com/media/jpXAdNRiwGL0k/giphy-loop.mp4


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:53 
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MaliA wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful


IT IS A BURBERRY.

Or was, MrsA made me throw it away.

Probably the best plan to prevent you getting arrested.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:53 
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Lonewolves wrote:
All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform.


Thanks to defence cuts, these are the only lethal weapons our boys have!

(c) The Now Show, probably


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:55 
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Gogmagog

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Cras wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Democracy sucks.

True story.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Unfortunately none of the other methods are better at present


I wish there were some sort of quote from a great historical figure to illustrate that very point.



Ah, that same pale hard-hearted wench, that Rosaline.
Torments him so, that he will sure run mad.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:56 
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Perfect

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:12 
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Est. 1978

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Lonewolves wrote:
All beer is awful

Well, you'd be happy at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
Tribalism rarely includes the ability to be honestly self-critical about the tribe you've hitched yourself to.

Interestingly I cancelled my Labour membership due to Corbyn's waving through of the govt's unamended Brexit bill. I think I'm going to stay out of party politics for a while as none of them seem to represent me at the moment.

Good on you, seriously. I wish a lot more members would walk over that.

I have no one really to vote for with enthusiasm – the main parties are now just Red UKIP and Blue UKIP. LibDems I'll vote for reluctantly purely because they aren't nationalist migrant-bashers like the other two, but I find the LibDems slippery and untrustworthy all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:44 
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Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
All beer is awful

Well, you'd be happy at least.

Have you tasted Mali's homebrew? :D

I'm sure it's much better now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 
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I have, and it was a long time ago, so I also hope it's better now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:10 
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Sir Taxalot wrote:
I've always thought that voting was so, so important - it was a hard earned right and as such should be valued highly and not taken for granted. But yet, I feel so overwhelmed by the complexity of everything (yet somewhat contradictorily frustrated that things get oversimplified to an often inaccurate point) and frankly disillusioned by pretty much everything. If I vote, is it properly informed? If it isn't properly informed, is it a waste or somehow improper? Yet how can I start to make sense of all this tangled stuff without being overcome by despair? How many others feel this way? Probably a fucking load. I don't feel like any one party or person represents me either.


Very eloquently put, good post - albeit I am bound to say that this can, more or less, be said of *any* intelligent, would-be voter, at any time in the last 30-odd years at least since I've been of voting age (and actually, probably since forever).

Surely, this is the very essence and nature of democracy and its limitations - the key word here is *compromise*. There are very, very few people, surely, who are literally 100% happy with every single aspect of their proposed political party's prospectus and actual actions, for entire parliamentary terms, in all respects!

For me personally (and as ever), I try to take a high level, big-picture approach. Of the main choices, the present-day Conservative Party most closely and very loosely/broadly matches my own politics. Two elections back, it was Vince Cable's/Nick Clegg's LibDems. Quite simply, I vote accordingly, not with a heavy heart, but actually glad of the democratic choice that my great forebears have bequeathed to the likes of me, through their very great sacrifice and suffering.

I'd also hate to see an Italy-type situation where we have dozens of tiny parties all forming unstable 'rainbow' coalitions - give me two or three really big 'broad church' parties and the attendant required compromises at voting booth any day (IMO).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:20 
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Gogmagog

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Grim... wrote:
I have, and it was a long time ago, so I also hope it's better now.


Ironed out a lot of issues from the first batches. Chiefly, using brewing sugar to prime, now, and better fermentation temperatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:26 
SupaMod
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Bring some lager to MeatUp!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:34 
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Gogmagog

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Grim... wrote:
Bring some lager to MeatUp!


I need a dedicated fridge to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:39 
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Giphy "all i hear are excuses":
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wo3KQPw0iOiDS/giphy-loop.mp4

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:46 
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Cavey wrote:
I'd also hate to see an Italy-type situation where we have dozens of tiny parties all forming unstable 'rainbow' coalitions - give me two or three really big 'broad church' parties and the attendant required compromises at voting booth any day (IMO).

Italy hasn't really been like that since the earlier days of the second republic, and the first republic (1948 to 1992) was dominated by two parties, the permanently-in-government Christian Democracy and the Italian Communist Party. There's three main party blocs in Italy now, the Democratic Party (centre-left), Five Star Movement (populists), Forza Italia (centre-right) and their respective allies. Don't forget that Italy has a huge range of regionalist parties too, just as we have the SNP, Plaid, and the northern Irish parties.

(Please don't take that fact correction as a jab against you, it's not. I follow Italian politics and realise there's some common misconceptions about it. Admittedly it's very hard to follow and keep up to date on.)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 14:18 
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sneering elitist

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Budget boo: 2% rise in NICs for self employed :(

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 15:01 
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EvilTrousers

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And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year.

I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight.

Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 15:27 
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Gogmagog

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Any changes to fags, cars, beer and 30 free nursery hours?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:13 
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Trousers wrote:
And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year.

I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight.

Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.


What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? :)
Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:31 
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EvilTrousers

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It doesn't really change the way you pay yourself - more the way you're taxed.


If you're operating as a Limited Company profits distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends will (from April 2018) only get £2k worth of tax free dividends a year compared to £5k this year and your entire basic rate band going back a couple of years.

From £2k through to the higher rate band you pay 7.5% on Dividends and then 32.5% over that.

Bear in mind you'll already have paid corporation tax on your profits as well.

They are basically winding back the low wages / high dividends culture that developed to avoid paying NICS. It is sort of fair with the exception of the lack of rights you can end up with as self employed (also getting stung by a 1% increase in Class 4 NIC that they ribbed Red Ed for not promising that he wouldn't put NICs up)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:39 
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Thanks very much Trousers. :)

I have to say that on the face of it, this absolutely sucks and is the last thing I'd expect from a Tory government. Being a Tory means helping those who work hard and help themselves through said hard work, via incentivisation and not clobbering them with tax. I was disgusted about the last changes to dividends; little guys like you and me get taxed to the hilt, but as you say, the big boys with fancy accountants get away with not just paying less, but pretty much cock all.

"Low tax economy" yeah right. But, it's not as though we have any other voting choices; Corbyn would probably burn us at the fecking stake, for having the sheer audacity of doing anything outside of the public sector, let alone just taxing us.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:55 
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Doc made a fair point earlier, that it's likely not aimed at those that actually run their own business, but the likes of Deliveroo and Uber, where they're deliberately running an entirely self-employed workforce. Still, the tax only hits the employee, not the umbrella company, which seems highly undesirable.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 19:18 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
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Cavey wrote:
Trousers wrote:
And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year.

I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight.

Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.


What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? :)
Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike?

Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 20:08 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Trousers wrote:
And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year.

I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight.

Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.


What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? :)
Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike?

Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf


This is beyond fab, fantastic stuff and hugely helpful. Many thanks man, much appreciated. :) :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 21:33 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Trousers wrote:
And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year.

I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight.

Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.


What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? :)
Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike?

Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf

Good stuff! But tell Diana to cheer up a bit. She looks like someone's stolen her lunch


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 21:41 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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I've also got the feeling that this won't ever see the light of day, as it is very off-style for us. I'll give it a go tomorrow but think compliance will want it watered down to the point I'll refuse to publish it.

Apologies for formatting, its a c/p ex word.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Is the National Insurance increase Philip Hammonds’ Pasty Tax?

Yesterday, we reported on what, in my view, was the dullest budget in my career as a tax advisor. That isn’t to say that every previous budget has been full of excitement, but never before have we struggled to fill just three pages without resorting to ‘padding’. It was actually more difficult than normal to get our report out, and the team did a great job.

Then I got the train home, and started thinking about the National Insurance changes that led the news headlines. The mainstream press have focussed on the potential breaking of the 2015 Manifesto commitments, but I have little interest in that. I’m far more vexed by the reasons given for the changes, and whether they stack up.

First of all, for those watching the speech, the build up to the announcement was big on words, but little on detail. As the chancellor started to reach his climax, those of us watching on TV were starting to shift uncomfortably in our seats. This was going to be big, given the detailed introduction. This was going to hurt ‘us’. And then it came, a 2% increase in Class 4 NICs.

Oh. Just that?

The change will raise a fair amount of additional revenue for the Government, up to £645m in 2019/20 before the savings start to reduce (a result, I assume, of the presumption that fewer people will ‘volunteer’ for self employment status if the tax benefits are eroded. But in a typical budget, that isn’t a significant change. The 2% increase to IPT will raise £840m per year. The apprenticeship levy that takes effect in April will raise £2.6bn in its first year. In tax policy terms, the Class 4 increase is small potatoes.

However, do the reasons and justifications for the change stack up? Here I must declare a vested interest. I am self employed, and therefore pay Class 4 National Insurance and so my tax cost will be higher from 2018 due to the increase. However, let us consider the words from the Chancellors speech.

People should have choices about how they work, but those choices should not be driven primarily by differences in tax treatment.

I agree. However, we should also consider who is determining whether (say) a minicab driver is to be self employed, rather than employed, and ensure that the incidence of tax changes fall on the person who makes that decision, a point which this statement…

The lower National Insurance paid by the self-employed is forecast to cost our public finances over £5 billion this year alone

…neatly supports. The 2% increase in Class 4 NIC virtually bridges the employee NIC gap and raises £645m as noted above. The remaining £4.4bn must therefore be the employers saving. If we are tackling the ‘gig economy’ as suggested…

As our economy responds to the challenges of globalisation, shifts in demographics, and the emergence of new technologies we have seen a dramatic increase in the number of people working as self-employed

.. then why is the mechanism to address “new challenges” not targeted at those challenges, and instead applied to the whole self-employed base? New legislation takes effect from April 2018 to deal with off payroll working in the public sector, to bring people doing employment type jobs onto the payroll, and in fact we were awaiting the announcement that it would roll out to the wider employer base in the near future. After all, applying that measure to the wider commercial sector alone would fundamentally deal with the main issue presented in the speech:
But a fair system will also ensure fairness between individuals, so that people doing similar work for similar wages and enjoying similar state benefits pay similar levels of tax.

And as the chancellor tells us, the measure is ostensibly fair, as the chancellor also identifies that the fat cats will be equally affected:

Indeed, many of our most highly-paid professionals work through Limited Liability Partnerships and are treated as self-employed.

Hi! That’s me. Well, apart from the highly paid part obviously. But it isn’t fair, because of the way that the National Insurance system works – in that the increase in Class 4 National Insurance only applies up to the ‘Upper limit’ – that is £45,000 of profits next year. Above that, it remains 2%. So at £45,000 of earnings, you’ll pay in the region of an extra £740 when these changes take effect. At £450,000 of earnings, you’ll still only pay the same £740 extra per year.

This increase is therefore likely to be a mere scratch on highly paid professional working in the city (and will be largely adjusted out anyway by the increase in the Higher Rate income tax threshold that arrives at the same time), but a more material issue for the self employed plumber outside London.

Which makes the following statement all the more difficult to comprehend in context:

I have considered the possibility of simply reversing the decision to abolish Class 2 contributions, but the Class 2 NIC is regressive and outdated.

Which I now read as “I discounted the very regressive option and decided to instead choose the option that is still very regressive only slightly less so”.

So before I close this thesis, give my compliance partner a mild heart attack and have my other fellow partners wondering whether I’ve completely lost it by getting so irate at such a small issue, I’ll summarise my issues with the Class 4 Increase.

1. It isn’t fair. It takes an issue of tax saving on one party (the potential employer) and moves the part of the incidence to another party (the potential employee.

2. It isn’t fair. The incidence applies to all self employed taxpayers, whereas legislation exists to challenge the problem at source if only it were ‘switched on’ for the private sector.

3. It isn’t fair. The charge is regressive, with lower earners suffering far, far more in percentage terms than high earners.

The Pasty tax in the Omnishambles budget of 2012 never made it to the statute books. I hope that this change similarly never sees royal assent.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:07 
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EvilTrousers

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:this:

Would it not make a decent LinkedIn article for you rather than the company as a personal opinion or would that still be frowned upon?

I was at the FreeAgent Partner Summit* last month and the Head of the OTS was there. He did a session on PAYE/NIC alignment and the plan seemed sensible;

Quote:
The OTS believes its overall seven stage closer-alignment plan is realistic and has proposed a five year timetable, between 2017 and 2022. The stages are:

calculating employee NICs on a similar basis to PAYE;
moving employer NICs to a payroll levy;
aligning the scope and definitions for income tax and NICs;
the self-employed to pay and receive the same contributory benefits as employees;
bringing benefits in kind fully within NICs;
increasing transparency and understanding amongst taxpayers; and
harmonising administration and legislative procedures.


So Hammond has basically gone for step 4 and just the "Self-employed pay more" bit. I hope his spreadsheets suffer from an unfindable circular calc.

* As exciting as it sounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:31 
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From yesterday's PMQs:

Bercow wrote:
Finally, Mr Tim Farron. [Interruption.] Order. I do not know whether Members are cheering because it is “finally” or because of the popularity of the hon. Gentleman, but he is going to be heard.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:42 
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Kern wrote:
From yesterday's PMQs:

Bercow wrote:
Finally, Mr Tim Farron. [Interruption.] Order. I do not know whether Members are cheering because it is “finally” or because of the popularity of the hon. Gentleman, but he is going to be heard.

He's a card, that Bercow.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:10 
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Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:15 
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Squirt wrote:
Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right?

The rates are completely different, and in theory the money is for different things than income tax.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 
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EvilTrousers

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Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right?

The rates are completely different, and in theory the money is for different things than income tax.


It all just ends up in one pot now for the treasury but originally it was set up in order to fund state benefits. It used to be you received an actual stamp in a savings book (like Green Shield stamps for the really old among us - Cavey) and I still occasionally use the term regarding being paid enough to "earn your stamp", in much the way I will refer to 50p as ten bob.

It's a massive pain in the arse now - the NIC tables look like someone vomited up all the numbers possible. We have sales people trying to explain the difference between the Lower Earnings Limit and Primary Threshold on a daily basis and nobody understands what they are saying, including the sales people themselves.

Part time workers and zero hours contracts allow companies to employ loads of workers on shitty hours and wages yet keep them below the NIC thresholds so they don't have to pay any NIC's. Then when they do have to pay people more they shift them over to self employed so they then don't have to pay any employer NICS and the workers don't get any of those pesky rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:50 
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It does seem needlessly complicated - it's actually pretty hard to find what my actual marginal "tax rate" is, if you combine NI and Income Tax.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
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Lonewolves wrote:
Squirt wrote:
Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right?

Because the Daily Mail would have a shit fit if the basic rate of income tax went above 20%, even if everyone is paying 32% in reality

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 15:11 
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Trousers wrote:
It all just ends up in one pot now for the treasury but originally it was set up in order to fund state benefits. It used to be you received an actual stamp in a savings book (like Green Shield stamps for the really old among us - Cavey)


/feebly shakes walking stick

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 20:22 
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Get off, it's a super-lightweight Porsche Design carbon fibre walking stick and there's no fooling anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:44 
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Cat in the Hat to come back?

Galloway might stand in Manchester

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:52 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -raised-it

I really wish this shower of cunts actually had some meaningful opposition. A Labour party or a Lib/Lab coalition with its shit together would be absolutely ripping them to shreds.

The Corbyn experiment hasn't worked, a change of plan is needed.

Quote:
The Conservative party’s 2015 manifesto was unequivocal, promising four times that a Tory government would not increase national insurance. It did not mention the self-employed and offered future chancellors no wriggle room.

On page three, it said:

We will not raise VAT, national insurance contributions or income tax but we will raise the 40p income tax threshold to £50,000.

On page six, it promised to “commit to no increases in VAT, national insurance contributions or income tax.”

On page nine, it explained how it planned to do this:

Our approach is focused on reducing wasteful spending, making savings in welfare, and continuing to crack down on tax evasion and aggressive avoidance. This means that we can commit to no increases in VAT, income tax or national insurance. Tax rises on working people would harm our economy, reduce living standards and cost jobs. Instead, as we reduce the deficit, we will cut income tax, as we have done over the last five years: during the next parliament, we will increase the tax-free personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate threshold to £50,000, so you keep more of your hard-earned money.

And for the avoidance of doubt, on page 27, it said:

A Conservative government will not increase the rates of VAT, income tax or national insurance in the next parliament.

After the election, the first Queen’s speech of the parliament underlined the commitment not to increase national insurance.

Legislation will be brought forward to ensure people working 30 hours a week on the national minimum wage do not pay income tax, and to ensure there are no rises in income tax rates, Value Added Tax or national insurance for the next five years.

The tax lock was duly passed.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:27 
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I'd say the Corbyn experiment is going awesomely well old boy (from a Tory perspective, natch :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:30 
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Latest opinion poll puts Conservatives on 44%, Labour on 25%. Wow.

It's panning out exactly as I said it would. The non-stupid thing to do would be to not concentrate on the £3 a year "Trots", ultra lefties and zealots who've recently joined the party, but actually, everyone else.

All too late though. Labour is doomed whatever it does now. Corbyn = 20 years unopposed Conservative Government. As I said at the time of his election.

I thought they would implode spectacularly, but it would appear that actually, they don't have the guts even for that. It now looks like they're going out with a whimper, not a bang.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 13:06 
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Maybe some of us ex-Labour voters hate Corbyn and the party for backing Hard Brexit and dredging up decades-old unworkable policies that have no place in modern social democracy? There's a thought, for once.

You're probably getting off on the building xenophobia and Little Englander Britannia Rules the Waves bullshit as it doesn't affect you, but it terrifies some of us, believe it or not, and it's disgusting seeing the Labour Party capitulate to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:26 
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Owen Jones has flounced from Twitter, apparently.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:55 
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Cavey wrote:
Owen Jones has flounced from Twitter, apparently.


To be fair, he didn't flounce. He posted a long explanation of how he thought that it was no longer productive and that he spent all of his time dealing with receiving hateful abuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:06 
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Well, that's Twitter for you. Full of loons and trolls with nothing better or more productive to do with their time.
I'm not in any way excusing the antics of such people, but one does have to consider the nature of the constituency he's himself been overtly courting and frothing at for the past however many years (I seem to recall him flouncing off QT?) At the political extremes, there will always be a ready supply of nutters who are more SE than you, and not just for show either. As ever, you live by the sword etc., I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:10 
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Gogmagog

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Secession!
Shipley and Keighley MPs want their constituencies to not be part of Bradford MDC, as the tax collected there funds the inner city disproportionately.

This could get interesting. I think I would be for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:50 
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Heh.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 14:44 
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Quote:
The Government's historic Brexit Bill cleared Parliament yesterday, after the Commons sent it onwards into law. This could have been a big moment for the Leader of the Opposition – if only he thought it was worth his time.

Jeremy Corbyn had originally decided it would be a better use of his time to attend a Momentum protest rally outside Parliament as MPs discussed the Article 50 legislation inside the Commons. That way, he could put pressure on the Government over its refusal to guarantee the rights of EU citizens.

In the end, he gave it a miss. His supporters had to settle for John McDonnell and Diane Abbott instead.

Despite declaring last month that "the real fight starts now", Westminster went without hearing from Mr Corbyn inside or outside the chamber.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... ust-given/

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 14:53 
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Utterly baffling.

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