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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 19:23 
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:D

I know I really shouldn't, but can't resist here.
Man, the vanity of the Left never ceases to amaze me; public spending on health, education, public order and defence = all (exclusively) centre left policies, as indeed is the whole concept of equality of opportunity(!) :D

Anyone to the right of centre is a Brexit-loving, Trump-adoring, UKIP-fanboy... but of course, I'm forgetting, there is more to politics than a simplistic, reductionist left/right axis, right?


Oh boy, I'm off for the evening. 'Night. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:05 
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See, this is where the Squirt Political Hypercube really comes into play. None of this 2 axis nonsense!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:21 
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Gogmagog

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Quote:
Supreme court justices have unanimously backed Theresa May’s “particularly harsh” £18,600 minimum income rule for British citizens to bring non-European spouses into Britain that campaigners say has led to tens of thousands of families being separated.

But the supreme court ruling does acknowledge that the rule has caused hardship for thousands, and criticises the lack of focus on the treatment of children and the ability of Home Office staff to consider alternative assets when they assess the earning ability of the British spouse.


I think the Supreme Court enjoys giving May the odd tap on the shoulder.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:56 
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The biggest flaw with that law IMO is that it doesn't take into account *at all* the earnings of the spouse. If the spouse is highly skilled and has a job lined up on their arrival that pays £90,000 a year, they still can't come in if the British half of the partnership earns under the threshold.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:10 
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Attachment:
impeach.png


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:15 
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What is the Y scale?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:18 
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Mr Dave wrote:
What is the Y scale?

Popularity over time apparently, as a percentage of the most popular the search term has ever been.

So 100% is the most popular, and every other data point is in relation to that.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:19 
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Data from here:
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=impeach

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:23 
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Why are so many people searching for impeach on finditcheapest.com ?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:26 
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GazChap wrote:
Why are so many people searching for impeach on finditcheapest.com ?

Arf, I watermarked it.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:28 
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GazChap wrote:
Why are so many people searching for impeach on finditcheapest.com ?

I was thinking the same thing. Most confusing.

Now 100% of people are searching for 'impeach' on FIC.com.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:31 
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Paws for thought

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Mr Russell wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
What is the Y scale?

Popularity over time apparently, as a percentage of the most popular the search term has ever been.

So 100% is the most popular, and every other data point is in relation to that.

So, in a way it doesn't mean much. Could mean that about 40 people have searched for it, which is more than before, but insignificant., or that there's a baying mob out for blood (and a peak I can't place in ~2013).

Would be nice to have absolute figures.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:40 
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GazChap wrote:
The biggest flaw with that law IMO is that it doesn't take into account *at all* the earnings of the spouse. If the spouse is highly skilled and has a job lined up on their arrival that pays £90,000 a year, they still can't come in if the British half of the partnership earns under the threshold.


Well no, but if that's the case they could come in on a sponsored work visa which is an infinitely simpler process than a spousal one.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:43 
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Cras wrote:
Well no, but if that's the case they could come in on a sponsored work visa which is an infinitely simpler process than a spousal one.

Nope, not really. To modify Gaz's scenario to one that's slightly more realistic: if the person was capable of getting a job offer for £90k but didn't yet have one. Because getting the offer secured is a fuckload of work for the potential employer, including the legal requirement to prove no EU citizen was qualified. That alone is tougher than the entire spousal visa process, which is expensive and tedious but not difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 13:44 
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That's effort for the employer though, who have lawyers to do that shit for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 13:46 
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Wait, I see what you mean. You seem to have disagreed with my entirely correct interpretation on the basis that it doesn't fit your entirely goalpost-shifted scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 15:17 
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Cras wrote:
Wait, I see what you mean. You seem to have disagreed with my entirely correct interpretation on the basis that it doesn't fit your entirely goalpost-shifted scenario.

Welcome to Gaywood.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 15:27 
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Cras wrote:
Wait, I see what you mean. You seem to have disagreed with my entirely correct interpretation on the basis that it doesn't fit your entirely goalpost-shifted scenario.


I feel your pain.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 16:41 
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Cras wrote:
Wait, I see what you mean. You seem to have disagreed with my entirely correct interpretation on the basis that it doesn't fit your entirely goalpost-shifted scenario.

Well, no. Your interpretation is correct for what Gaz said but only because it glossed over a different, but very significant, difficulty. It's not a very apples-to-apples comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 16:42 
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Cavey wrote:
Cras wrote:
Wait, I see what you mean. You seem to have disagreed with my entirely correct interpretation on the basis that it doesn't fit your entirely goalpost-shifted scenario.


I feel your pain.

Dry your eyes, Cavey, watch me give a fig about any of it. You are wasting your breath, seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 16:47 
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Oh don't worry, I know full well I'm wasting my breath, Doc, but if there are tears then trust me, they're tears of laughter on my part mate. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 16:50 
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 18:28 
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8)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 15:24 
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I support the government's proposal for changing the definition of prisons, btw, just as an example of my rampant tribalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 15:32 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I support the government's proposal for changing the definition of prisons, btw, just as an example of my rampant tribalism.


Link me, do!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 15:35 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/just ... ourts-bill

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 15:36 
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Prisons and Courts Bill

Quote:
Code:

(1)The Prison Act 1952 is amended as follows.
(2)For sections 1 to 4 substitute—
“Purpose of prisons
In giving effect to sentences or orders of imprisonment or detention  imposed by courts, prisons must aim to—
(a) protect the public,
(b) reform and rehabilitate offenders,
(c) prepare prisoners for life outside prison, and
(d) maintain an environment that is safe and secure"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 15:49 
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Gogmagog

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Ta.

My concerns at s49 still exist, but if the court will appoint and pay for a person to do cross examination in Family Court, then that's good.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 16:01 
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I dislike s36, about pleadi g guilty onibe. People might end up criminals whete they needn't have been.

Overall, happy that reform, not punishment is mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 16:07 
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MaliA wrote:
I dislike s36, about pleadi g guilty onibe. People might end up criminals whete they needn't have been.


Yeah, 'guilt-by-click'* makes me uneasy. Too much opportunity for abuse and giving the most vulnerable a conviction when a bench might have been lenient. It's like people being pressured into taking a caution without realising it's something serious to have appearing on your DBS check.


* as opposed to guilty clicks - that's what Tumblr's for


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 19:07 
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Fuck the Prison & Courts Bill. Scumbag fanatical government using it as a vehicle to push through unjust personal injury reforms.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 19:25 
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Whaddya reckon on the by-elections?

Labour to hold Stoke and lose Copeland?

Would be a massive blow to Corbyn to lose a traditional Labour seat to an incumbent government that would be floundering if it had decent opposition.

He won't give a shit though, in all likelihood.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 19:27 
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Lose both, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 20:30 
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Under normal circumstances, Labour would be expected to romp home with these safe seat by-elections (Stoke has been Labour since 1950 when the seat was created, I understand), especially in Opposition. But of course, they have Corbyn - so will be lucky to retain either.

My money's on both seats being lost - even Stoke - and even though Nuttall has made a total arse of himself. That is the measure of Labour's utter disintegration at the hands of its loony wing.
Not that this will make any difference at all to Corbyn, though, nor indeed his outlandish supporters. He's a post-truth leader of a post-truth, ruined party, as presiding over an utterly failed, moribund politics that belongs in the post-war 40s and 50s era (if it belongs anywhere at all).

Man, they must rue the day they elected Millipede (let alone Corbyn lol). The shift Left has been an unmitigated catastrophe for them, predictably enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 20:37 
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I think Labour will hold Stoke, but maybe it's more hope than anything as I don't want to live near a bunch of idiots who think UKIP are the right choice. I think a lot of folk round here vote Labour out of sheer habit, but I don't know if that'll continue.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 20:40 
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devilman wrote:
I think Labour will hold Stoke, but maybe it's more hope than anything as I don't want to live near a bunch of idiots who think UKIP are the right choice. I think a lot of folk round here vote Labour out of sheer habit, but I don't know if that'll continue.


I don't think the crap weather is going to help them here; I can see Tories and Kippers keen and intent on humiliating Labour even further going out to brave the elements, but Labour's long-suffering, ever dwindling home crowd? Personally, I doubt it. There's only so much punishment the poor sods can take.

In all my years, being as interested in politics as I am, I have never, ever seen such support for right of centre politics as I do now; it's like some lightbulb has switched on with people. I was only a kid then, but I have to go all the way back to Thatcher's 1979 GE victory to recall a more resurgent Conservative Party. Its fortunes are even reviving (somewhat) in Scotland, whereas by stark contrast Labour are probably beyond any redemption there, ever, with little more than single % figures support. I honestly never thought I would see the day.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 22:42 
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Quote:
Barclays will keep the bulk of its operations in London after Brexit, even if the UK loses access to the single market, chief executive Jes Staley says.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39062975

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 0:53 
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Cavey wrote:
Quote:
Barclays will keep the bulk of its operations in London after Brexit, even if the UK loses access to the single market, chief executive Jes Staley says.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39062975


Good to hear, though as a company with a large U.K. Retail bank, they weren't one of the ones I was super worried about. It's the investment-only banks that will be interesting to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:35 
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Kern wrote:
Prisons and Courts Bill

Quote:
Code:

(1)The Prison Act 1952 is amended as follows.
(2)For sections 1 to 4 substitute—
“Purpose of prisons
In giving effect to sentences or orders of imprisonment or detention  imposed by courts, prisons must aim to—
(a) protect the public,
(b) reform and rehabilitate offenders,
(c) prepare prisoners for life outside prison, and
(d) maintain an environment that is safe and secure"

But this is our current aim anyway, hence my job. I'm not convinced there is anything different in the for prisons at all.

The court stuff sounds good if it is indeed a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:56 
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Labour hold in Stoke, on vastly reduced turnout but only slightly reduced vote share. We were all, as a country, very lucky to escape a second UKIP MP I think. And I think the polls were correct -- Nuttall was on to win it until the scandals started to stack up over the last few weeks.

Conservative win in Copeland. Inexcusable for Corbyn, even by his usual shambolic standards. I wonder how the rabid Corbynistas are cognitivally dissonancing their way out of this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:57 
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Curiosity wrote:
Whaddya reckon on the by-elections?

Labour to hold Stoke and lose Copeland?

Would be a massive blow to Corbyn to lose a traditional Labour seat to an incumbent government that would be floundering if it had decent opposition.

He won't give a shit though, in all likelihood.


I R Right!

Copeland has been Labour since it was created as a constituency. It's probably not a perfect representation of the country at large because it's got one huge electoral issue (nuclear power) but to Sellafield etc. Obviously Corbyn is massively against that and it doesn't play well, even though they put forward a pro-nuclear candidate.

Even so, you shouldn't go losing seats to a shitshow incumbent party. This should have been an easy win for any credible opposition. Labour only held Stoke because Nuttall is a twat. How can the Corbyn supporters spin this as being an indicator that they can win a general election? Idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:59 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I wonder how the rabid Corbynistas are cognitivally dissonancing their way out of this one.

They're blaming Blair and Mandelson for making public speeches and statements. There's no talking to these people.

YouGov polling on possible Labour leaders. Look closely at the "net favourably" ratings. They're all negative...


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:09 
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I wonder how many politicians across the board have positive ratings?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:37 
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It would have been surprising to me that Khan got negative ratings, until I realised two things:

1) Politics is tribal and most non-Labour voters will 'down vote' all of these people
2) Racism (my last sojourn to Shropshire had people asking if he was implementing Sharia Law)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:37 
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I'll take that; horrendous for Labour but not quite horrendous enough to unseat Corbyn. Result. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:39 
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Also amazing that the Tories won Copeland whilst campaigning on the hugely unpopular, "We're shutting down your local hospital and don't give a shit" platform.

Momentum, of course, said that they saw enough in SoT that indicates they will win a general election. Because they are idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:41 
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Curiosity wrote:
Labour only held Stoke because Nuttall is a twat. How can the Corbyn supporters spin this as being an indicator that they can win a general election?


My theory is it's because they're deluded, post-truth, swivel eyed window lickers, by and large? Could be wrong of course. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:42 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Labour only held Stoke because Nuttall is a twat. How can the Corbyn supporters spin this as being an indicator that they can win a general election?


My theory is it's because they're deluded, post-truth, swivel eyed window lickers, by and large? Could be wrong of course. :)


You want to listen to McDonnell on R4 this morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:45 
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Curiosity wrote:
Momentum, of course, said that they saw enough in SoT that indicates they will win a general election. Because they are idiots.


'If we get this result across the country, we'll win every seat and be in power forever'


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:46 
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Curiosity wrote:
It would have been surprising to me that Khan got negative ratings, until I realised two things:

1) Politics is tribal and most non-Labour voters will 'down vote' all of these people
2) Racism (my last sojourn to Shropshire had people asking if he was implementing Sharia Law)


He's one of the few Labour politicians I have time for at the moment. Really respect him. Also, being out of Westminster and building a base and recognition from the mayoralty is a very good idea tactically.


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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

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