Be Excellent To Each Other

I've been trying to find the total usage figures for single use bags plus reusable bags over recent years, which would be the most telling figure, but they don't seem to be published anywhere.

I know that it was 6.5 billion single use bags in 2006, but nothing reported since then.

Some plastic facts..!

http://www.inspirationgreen.com/plastic-bag-stats.html

I recently recovered a bag for life that has been sitting in a loft in Manchester for around 8 years. It's still in incredibly good nick (turns out sitting there doing fuck all doesn't damage it much) and it was packed with old tools and other shit. I cleaned it out and have now repurposed it to hold either shopping or my recycling depending on the need.

I generally like the bags for life for their sturdyness, and I will reuse them until they literally disintegrate. I still occasionally get normal plastic bags, and use them as bin-liners for small bins.

Result! BINS HAVE BEEN MENTIONED.

In other news, I feel rough as a bears arse, on account of Mrs C and I doing a "Dick and Liz" [Burton/Taylor] 2-man party until vodka shots @6am (yes really), and we are supposed to be entertaining shortly... Thank fuck for quadruple ristrettos

*looks at European results*

Oh, for the love of fuck.

it depresses me that the party guaranteed to do jack sjit for 'us' is the one that seemsto be winning.

Unsurprising and depressing result. Cue a massive swing to the right and the emergence of the pact with UKIP which the Tories keep dismissing. They've got no other choice, Europe has always split the party internally but UKIP means the split threatens to become external. They are in a hole, basically, they want to be seen by their backers as the party which represents the interests of business first and foremost but business leaders generally want us to stay within Europe but that's not something they can realistically guarantee.

I'm not even gloating about this because Labour are providing no real opposition and no compelling alternative right now. There are so many ways they could attack this shitty government but they are just staring dumbfounded at an open goal while the terrifying prospect of either an ultra right wing Tory government or equally right wing Tory/UKIP coalition looms large for 2015.

It can't all be right wing people voting for UKIP

He got almost 30% of the cast votes.

Its also the first time in 100 years that a none "major" party has won a major election.

Depressed now.

Fuck me the cybernaws are actually celebrating UKIP getting a Scottish MEP as it "shows we're not much different from the rUK". Even if you ignore there being almost a fifth more UKIP voters (% of vote) south of the wall I'm not sure we should be over the moon that we have mongs too

I'd be worried if I was them, if this kind of thing does look like it'll force a swing to the right for the tories (and I've seen this theorised in more places than just markg's post here) then it could well prompt more Scottish people to vote for independence to get away from that prospect.

Flicking through Twitter and 'below the line' comments, I keep on being reminded of the end of Brecht's poem, 'Die Loesung':



My woolly prediction: the UKIP bubble with have burst by the time of the General Election. Low turnouts and second-order elections favour protest votes. Come the one that matters, we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Course, it has been rather fun watching everyone panic about Mr Farage, and certainly put the wind up the major parties.

The lastminute YouTube ad is brilliant.

They will need to do a lot of work to get anything like the results they had here. General Elections are different from council and EU ones. They will need policies and key people in the party other than Farage. I assume that Farage can't be a MP and MEP at the same time?

Will be interested to see if Paul Sykes will fund them again, he gave them money as he hates the EU, UKIP will not will UK seats with just that, so not sure if Sykes will give money for anything else

I really, really hope you're right mate. Me? I'm not so sure.

As the most "right wing" member here by some distance, I am still pretty terrified at what seems to be happening. National Front victory in France, UKIP here...? Wtf, Europe?

Can't see Nick Clegg making it through this unscathed, yet history will judge him favourably.

It's interesting that we're all talking about the results for 9.7% of an elected body. Of the 751 seats up for grabs in Brussels and Strasbourg (really, stop the dual-seat thing, it's getting stupid), the UK onl has 71.

Flicking through the figures, it seems that whilst Euroskeptic and generally nationalist parties have been on the rise, the two large blocs (the European People's Party, which our Tories left, and the Socialists) are still pro-deeper integration and make up just over 52% of the seats between them *. So it'll be power bargains between more of the same, as usual.

One solution would be for openly continent-wide European parties, but I don't sense any demand for anything like that across the EU and, of course, that would suggest a general sense of 'Europeaness' that really doesn't exist in the mainstream. Which is why I think an European federation would be doomed to fail, and we hurt ourselves by thinking otherwise.



* http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/vote20 ... on-results

Aye. Bringing your party into government for the first time in 80 years is a remarkable achievement, and once these days are over, I think we'll learn a lot more about how they influenced policies than we currently know.

In other news, Ukraine has a new president. I really don't know enough to know if this is going to help ease tensions in the country or just continue its dismemberment.

Aye, that and the fear of a Tory/UKIP coalition next year seems to be bringing a few over to the sunny side

That's all well & good, but I'd rather they were coming over because they were full of self-belief & optimism for an independent Scotland

"Prime Minister David Cameron will travel to Brussels for an informal dinner with other EU leaders where the election results will be discussed" according to the BBC

So after being accused of being out of touch by voters, he will be discussing this and other matters over Lobster and Champagne all funded by the tax payer! Have these people never heard of SKype of or Lync?

What a dick, and a prime example of why a lot of people voted UKIP, yes some are anti EU and some probably racist, but many where just sick of up their own arse politicians

Farage claims more in expenses than Cameron.

Sometimes face to face are better?

Yeah, this is utterly hysterical nonsense. I very much doubt anyone would say their main problem with Cameron is he doesn't use Skype or IM enough when meeting with other heads of state.

Perhaps if they all changed their practices to only meet using those things but it's fucking nonsense to suggest that you are at no disadvantage in a debate/negotiation if everyone else is around the table but you are just a face on an iPad screen or whatever. Also like it or not I'm pretty sure that some things happen or at least information is gleaned during the informal phases of such gatherings.

I'd argue quite strongly that government leaders definitely shouldn't be contacting each other on official business online due to security breach issues.

I'm the first person to say that British cabinets can do some of their activities far less extravagantly, but meeting leaders of other countries face to face is an essential part of what a cabinet does.

Clearly you should sell them an iPad-On-A-Stick™!

..........................................

Good to hear from you Cobracure, long time no speak. (I know we haven't seen eye to eye politically in the past, but it's always good to see old faces returning. I am, though, sorry to hear of your troubles).

In terms of your points, I agree about Clegg - he's Dead Man Walking I'm afraid, much as I personally think this is entirely unfair (albeit he has not handled "media situations" at all well). His chalice was poisoned, and almost impossible from the start of the Coalition IMO - and yet history will surely acknowledge his political bravery?

As regards no chance of a Con/LD Coalition - why not? People said that last time; they then said it wouldn't last a year; they then said it would all be an horrific failure, both economically and politically. All wrong as it goes, on all counts.

The reason why I personally think it's unlikely is that the LD vote will collapse at the GE, so they won't have any (or very few) seats, certainly nowhere near 60-odd, and so just won't have the clout? But where are these hitherto LD voters going to go? Labour?? Pfft.

As for Labour/UKIP - absolutely no chance; the Unions would never wear it for one thing.

I'm hoping the economy strengthens considerably further (it's no motoring at >3% annual growth), so that by the time of the GE, people vote Conservative as an outright majority (though I'd still prefer a Con/Lib coalition).

Green, probably. All depends if people feel that the Veggies have a chance in their consitenuency. Euro and local elections tend to favour minor parties, due to turnout and protest voting, but when the General Election comes round people have to have a good reason not to go for the majors.

It's going to be interesting to see how it falls in the next GE. Under FPTP it is extremely unlikely that UKIP will achieve much to shout about. If the LDs are slaughtered as expected (not down to single figures, but from 56 to 20-30) then it's possible that one of the 'Big Two' could get in on their own.

But it's a long time to go.

Possibly mate, though I personally doubt it (at least, on any grand scale).
The Greens are simply too radical (in both political and pragmatic terms) for most.

Other than make Tories in marginals worry that they'll lose due to UKIP siphoning their votes away. That's the advantage FPTP gives to a minor party: no chance of winning, but a chance to spoil another.

Living in a safe labour seat is very bad for political motivation. I'd like to take a look at the Greens, but is there really much point?

FAKE EDIT: ACTUALLY, looking at the numbers, this is absolutely not a safe Labour seat

Classic empirical example there mate: UKIP were nowhere, but even their derisory vote was enough to keep the Conservative out and Labour in, hardly (one imagines) an outcome that would appeal to a UKIP voter?

Man, I hate UKIP.

We yearn for the days in the early part of the 20th Century when Liberals would step aside in certain seats to allow the young Labour party entry into the Commons.

The Tories' slogan for the next 12 months could be 'vote UKIP and let Europhiles in'. But that might alienate the vast majority of the country who don't really care about the EU.

The Greens annoy me. The majority of their manifesto is pretty good, I would vote for them, but then you get to the batshit transport and environmental stuff, and that rules them out for the majority of sane people.

I wonder if a party emerged that took the best from all of the current parties and threw away the worst, how well they would do. There is a misguided belief that the majority of people don't vote because of apathy, and that is a belief that is pushed forward by the current political parties as they don't want the average person to vote, they want the rabid base they pander to, to vote.
I just don't believe it. I think if there was a party that was truly inclusive and positive on all points, and didn't try to fuck anyone over, the non-voters would turn up in their droves and it would be a landslide.

That'll never happen though, not in the current system.

I will vote for Trooper to be PM

I honestly think that Labour would walk the next election if only they could find someone a bit less fucking weird and a lot more forthright than Miliband. So many people just don't like him personally. Most people dislike Cameron but at least they think they know who he is and where he's coming from. Miliband looks like a fucking space alien.

I also think Labour have much to fear from UKIP as well. But they need to oppose them, not pander to them as the Tories surely will.

You'd probably need a couple of billion quid to get started.

Indeed, and that isn't going to come from the current donor base, not for this.

Also, activists in each area. Having a party organisation - people to stuff envelopes, knock on doors, get out the vote - matters.

Do a kickstarter...

A sad indictment of modern politics that appearance counts for so much.

Feex.

Well volunteered That's Oxford covered then

That's a thing that it seems to have become fashionable for people to say. I think it's absolute bullshit. People trot that out but then they still define and discuss previous governments in terms of their leaders. e.g Thatcher closed the mines and Blair invaded Iraq etc. So of course people are going to vote for a leader as well as their policies. It's not just how Miliband looks, it's the way he talks and the things he says, he has to communicate their policies and he does a shitty job.

I don't think the public especially want good looking leaders but they do recognise that it takes some force of personality to do that job successfully. They know it when they see it and they want someone they recognise as having good leadership characteristics.

That's what an uggo would say, aye, aye? AMIRITE beautiful people? Hello? Hello...

What's your take on the Syria thing? Milliband opposed he government and influence from the USA, and from a position of no power he actually stopped the involvement of our troops. That's a pretty powerful thing to have done, but he's still derided as being weak because of how he looks. It's the same kind of thinking that prevented Robin Cook from greater prominence.

I honestly don't know the ins and outs of that or precisely what his involvement was. It might be that he would make an excellent foreign secretary. He really isn't the leader that the party needs right now, though. He should be standing up for the things which the Tories are attacking and are vulnerable on. Not coming out with some fucking dribble about an unworkable energy price fixing policy. He just seems completely unable to engage with the people he needs to.