Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 14340 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209 ... 287  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 13:12 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
It has to be the cladding doesn't it? The fire spread around the outside of the building.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 13:15 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
markg wrote:
It has to be the cladding doesn't it? The fire spread around the outside of the building.

It looks likely and seems to make sense, but there's no official word yet.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 18:42 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
Tim Farron becomes a pub quiz question.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:18 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
:'(

https://www.facebook.com/cool.britannia ... 7151715236

Quote:
A Tory outrage.

2009 - Lakanal House tower block catches fire killing 6 people. The local authority is prosecuted for lapses in fire safety. A review is promised by the Labour government after pressure from the Fire Protection Association (FPA).

2010 - Building Regulations Act is published, including provisions for fire safety. Conservatives win election, a review is promised by the new government after more pressure from the FPA and warnings that the BR act does not go far enough.

2013 - Boris Johnson overrules the ruling body of the London Fire Brigade and uses legal action to inflict £29m in cuts. Closing 10 fire stations, cutting firefighters by 552, losing 14 fire engines and cutting minimum staffing levels from 5 to 4. By the time he steps down as Mayor of London he inflicts a further £100m in cuts to £130m total and the loss of 7000 firefighters. Fire prevention measures carried out by the service drop by over 25%.

2013 - All Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety and Rescue produces a report strongly recommending installation of fire suppression systems and sprinklers in 4000 tower blocks throughout Britain. The Grenfell residents action group publishes a report warning that their landlord is putting their safety at risk by restricting the access ways to their car park. They are ignored by their landlord.

2013 - 2016 Conservative housing ministers sit on All Party report without action, promising they are "looking at it", including housing minister Gavin Barwell.

2016 - Conservatives vote against a Labour motion to make sure all landlords and housing associations ensure residences are fit for human occupation, including provisions for fire safety. The motion is denied by 312 votes to 219. 72 of the MP's voting against are landlords. The Grenfell residents action group publish a report warning people will die in a fire before the landlord takes notice of their poor fire safety provisions. They are ignored by their landlord.

2017 - Ex housing minister Gavin Barwell becomes Prime Minister Theresa May's chief of staff. He never actions the All Party Parliamentary report recommendations. Grenfell Tower is reduced to rubble with the deaths of at least 12 residents as a fire spreads through the building in 4 minutes. It has no fire suppression system or sprinklers. The stairwell is not adequate for a full building evacuation. The emergency lighting is missing from half of the floors. The fire service struggle to reach the building due to previous car park modifications causing access issues as warned by the resident action group in 2013.

This post will be updated as more facts become apparent. These people were ignored because they were poor, and now they are dead. We all need to add our voices to theirs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:06 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
From the BBC

Quote:
A 2012 report by the British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association (BAFSA) concluded that fire sprinklers could be retrofitted with tenants in place at a cost of about £1,150 a flat. Since the 24-storey Grenfell Tower contained 120 flats, it works out at £138,000. Significantly less than the £2.6m spent on the cladding and replacement windows which were largely done for cosmetic reasons.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 13:36 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14483
This whole event seems quite surreal in places

We have Corbyn meeting and talking to the survivors (even offering a shoulder to them) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... ell-tower/
May goes , but does not meet any of the survivors because of 'security concerns' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40300369

And then just to show how true that is you get the Queen turning up : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40298473


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 14:02 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
The horrific fire and its aftermath probably deserves its own thread. I've found it really distressing to watch the news these two days. Horrific.

As for the visits: yes, Mrs May should have just visited and listened to the residents' anger. Sadiq Khan took it as well as political leader would have done in that circumstance, I thought.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 14:09 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
Kern wrote:
The horrific fire and its aftermath probably deserves its own thread. I've found it really distressing to watch the news these two days. Horrific.
The whole thing is just heartbreaking, what those people must have gone through in their final desperate minutes is unimaginable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 14:28 
User avatar
INFINITE POWAH

Joined: 1st Apr, 2008
Posts: 30498
I think the Queen did that deliberately, Kern - May has not endeared herself to Brenda recently apparently.

_________________
http://www.thehomeofawesome.com/
Eagles soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 14:54 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
MrChris wrote:
I think the Queen did that deliberately, Kern - May has not endeared herself to Beenda recently apparently.


I think most people blame the Conservatives for elements of this tragedy, some sort of corner\cost cutting will doubtless be found to be a key issue, so guess May was worried that somebody might attack her.

Corbyn is the working class (and a lot of other classes hero) and pretty much everyone likes the Queen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 16:34 
User avatar
Sitting balls-back folder

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10065
The failures already seem extremely well-documented and constantly-highlighted, which is what's really upsetting me about the whole thing.

What's making me angry is politicians making wafty "we will investigate to understand what went wrong" statements from about 3 seconds in.

Either be honest or decline to make a statement, don't be a stereotypically weasally fucking *politician* about it, especially *while it's still happening*.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 19:06 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
MrChris wrote:
I think the Queen did that deliberately, Kern - May has not endeared herself to Brenda recently apparently.


Attachment:
queeno.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:46 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
From four years ago.....

Quote:
The Government is "waging war against the excessive health and safety culture that has become an albatross around the neck of British businesses", said the PM.


Prime Minister David Cameron today said that his new year's resolution was to "kill off the health and safety culture for good".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 85238.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 21:55 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
I like this guy.



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:17 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
Watched the first 10 seconds.
Heads up: Jeremy Corbyn didn't win the election; he lost it. Very badly.

It's simply that expectations were so low, falling short of a Parliamentary majority by 60 odd seats, thereby not a cat in hells chance of getting a sniff of being anywhere near government, is seen as a 'victory' - and all this as against a Tory election campaign that was the worst in living memory. As I said, any sensible non-swiveleyed Labour Party/Leader such as David Miliband talking of aspiration instead of free unicorns etc would've walked it.

I really hate to be the one to break the news but, actually, very little indeed has changed - we still have a Tory government in place?

Interesting to see shares soaring and the pound steady upon the start of Brexit negotiations also.

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:36 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
Ha ha fucking hell, still trying to gloat, even now! That's some fucking chutzpah!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:40 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
But I think your assertion is questionable to begin with. If it was a choice between Tories and Tory-lite then I think that they would still have a majority. I don't think that younger voters would have even bothered.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:47 
User avatar
Can you dig it?

Joined: 5th Apr, 2008
Posts: 4662
Now, I'm more aligned with Labour than the Conservatives, I read the Guardian, and I like how May and her team have been given a right bloody nose; I do however feel that while, yes it was an expectation defying result, the reactions on the left have been a little over the top and the celebrations a little unwarranted perhaps. Labour came out way stronger than expected and the Conservatives massively diminished, of course, but that's not really a win - it's significant progress - there is far far more to be done and the UK is still in for one hell of a rough, uncertain ride.

_________________
rumours about the high quality of the butter reached Yerevan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:43 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
I was wondering if everyone had seen a different set of election results to me. Turns out after going to a wedding at the weekend on a farm that not everyone had :)

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:44 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
markg wrote:
Ha ha fucking hell, still trying to gloat, even now! That's some fucking chutzpah!


Nah, just stating uncomfortable truths. I'm very far from gloating I assure you, the Tories should have *walked* this, given the (ahem) quality of their opposition. That they did not, and in fact scraped home by the barest of (Scottish) margins isn't cause for celebration, but relief on my part.

Notwithstanding, the more idiotic elements of the Far Left trumpeting a dismal second and 60-odd seats short as a "victory" tells its own story, I guess. I mean, it's all a very far cry from the halcyon days, still less than a decade ago, with three landslides chalked up on the bounce, right? Still, we all still remember how that panned out, which probably explains the grasping of the flimsiest of straws now. Not so much green shoots of recovery, more like a tinge of moss. :D

Labour lost, and lost badly. Fact.

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:50 
User avatar
Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13381
markg wrote:
But I think your assertion is questionable to begin with. If it was a choice between Tories and Tory-lite then I think that they would still have a majority. I don't think that younger voters would have even bothered.


:this:

Demographics will do for the Tories, their support base is literally dying of old age, and I don't think they'll be replaced as younger people move into middle age and middle aged people move into old age. (Because those people have not enjoyed all the one-time-only benefits that the baby boomers have been the recipients of.)

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/ho ... -election/

Attachment:
Screenshot 2017-06-20 at 07.49.33.png


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:56 
User avatar

Joined: 23rd Nov, 2008
Posts: 9521
Location: The Golden Country
:DD

Trouble is, of course, people (well, most people ;) ) get wiser with age, and tend towards small c Conservativism as they get older. It stands to reason; people see more of life and gather knowledge and experience (plus, they have more to lose, and they'll remember first hand the disastrous outcomes of previous Labour governments directly). So the simplistic idealism of youth is gradually supplanted by a wiser pragmatism. So basically, I don't see the Tories' sensible, intelligent and pragmatic voter base dying off any time soon. Good grief... :D

_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...

Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but interestingly wrong :p


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:09 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
Latest polls show Labour ahead now.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:15 
User avatar
Soopah red DS

Joined: 2nd Jun, 2008
Posts: 3209
Bear in mind the context-those labour voters celebrating the most loudly are those who want nothing to do with the new labour years, and who wouldn't compare anything to them. Right wing travesty, Blair, blah blah. So this for them is a vindication of picking a left wing position, and a suggestion that if they can defy predictions here, then they have something to build on. It's absolutely essential to them that the Labour Party actually mean something leftist, not just be a watered down version of the Tories. The latter seemed the only way to sneak a few lefty ideas in, now they're hoping it wasn't. But even if it isn't true, they feel they're getting their party back. Much division, though, still plenty of blairites left, and I can't see the two sides' quest for power ending well.

If it were a sports match, every commentator would be (tediously) banging on about how the momentum (ha!) is with Labour now, regardless of the score.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:16 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
Cavey wrote:
:DD

Trouble is, of course, people (well, most people ;) ) get wiser with age, and tend towards small c Conservativism as they get older. It stands to reason; people see more of life and gather knowledge and experience (plus, they have more to lose, and they'll remember first hand the disastrous outcomes of previous Labour governments directly). So the simplistic idealism of youth is gradually supplanted by a wiser pragmatism. So basically, I don't see the Tories' sensible, intelligent and pragmatic voter base dying off any time soon. Good grief... :D

By and large the Tories voter base also voted for fucking Brexit. Not sure how sensible, intelligent and pragmatic that makes them tbh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:24 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27343
Location: Kidbrooke
Cavey wrote:
:DD

Trouble is, of course, people (well, most people ;) ) get wiser with age, and tend towards small c Conservativism as they get older. It stands to reason; people see more of life and gather knowledge and experience (plus, they have more to lose, and they'll remember first hand the disastrous outcomes of previous Labour governments directly). So the simplistic idealism of youth is gradually supplanted by a wiser pragmatism. So basically, I don't see the Tories' sensible, intelligent and pragmatic voter base dying off any time soon. Good grief... :D


Because of course all sensible and pragmatic people vote Tory, and the people on this board are all teenagers.

People are starting to see that ideological austerity that is designed to widen the gap between the rich and the poor is a bad choice. Looking at recent tragic events and seeing that axing support to the police, to firefighters, to doctors and nurses, and to people who are just trying to live their lives without getting burned to death is a bad thing. All signs point that if another election was called tomorrow then Labour would likely get a majority.

Now, they obviously didn't win. Lost, in fact. But vote share and total votes went up; it just also went up for the Tories as UKIP fell away to nothing, and the SNP were massively cut in Scotland. But it might bring back onside the moderates, and their influence on Corbyn could result in something very electable. Depends what the Tories do. But at the moment they are having an absolute disaster on Brexit, and May is now very unpopular.

It's the same old, same old. Labour get in, build up the state, people feel less reliant on it and on them, people vote Tory, Tories dismantle welfare state, people get angry, people vote Labour, etc.

Oh for a sensible centrist option.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:25 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17757
Location: Oxford
Cavey wrote:
. I mean, it's all a very far cry from the halcyon days, still less than a decade ago, with three landslides chalked up on the bounce, right? .


Both parties got a higher share of the vote than Labour did in 2005. Thanks for the disproportionate outocmes, First-Past-the-Post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:41 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Kern wrote:
Cavey wrote:
. I mean, it's all a very far cry from the halcyon days, still less than a decade ago, with three landslides chalked up on the bounce, right? .


Both parties got a higher share of the vote than Labour did in 2005. Thanks for the disproportionate outocmes, First-Past-the-Post.


A good part of that is down to the Lib Dem meltdown, of course.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:20 
User avatar
Heavy Metal Tough Guy

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6496
I think there is a very good chance that this coming parliament will go down as a disastrous outcome to outclass all previous disastrous outcomes, at least in living memory of a decent chunk of the electorate. I think Brexit, the way it seems to be going, stands a good chance of being the poll tax, winter of discontent and financial crash all rolled into one, and utterly self-inflicted. And I also don't see much small-c conservatism in the current government - they're charging headlong into a purely ideological approach to this without a clue what they're doing, swinging wildly in the dark, purely because they're scared of their back benchers and the Daily Mail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:44 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/j ... ns-prisons

Quote:
"Caring for inmates with dementia can be distressing for officers, as well as fellow prisoners. One officer, who asked to remain anonymous, had such a prisoner on his wing. Overnight, every night, the prisoner would forget that he was guilty of any crime and wake, expecting to be in his own bed, at home. Every morning, the officer had to allocate extra time to gently break the news to him yet again that he was in prison, why and for how long. It was, the officer said, deeply upsetting – not just for the prisoner, but for him, too. 'Of course this prisoner should be punished for his crime,' the officer said. 'But his condition meant his punishment was many times worse than a prisoner without dementia. I ended up feeling that he was going through something closer to torture than to civilised punishment. It didn’t seem humane and it didn’t seem fair.'"


Christ, that's bloody terrible.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:57 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Worse, it sounds like an Adam Sandler film


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:56 

Joined: 23rd Sep, 2010
Posts: 729
Cavey wrote:
Interesting to see shares soaring and the pound steady upon the start of Brexit negotiations also.


Image
"Steady"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
That could be a fluctuating dollar that causes that, though. MOAR GRAFZ are needed.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:10 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
I'm not sure why the markets would react to the start of Brexit negotiations anyway, it was something that has been scheduled to happen for months.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:12 
User avatar
EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
Grim... wrote:
That could be a fluctuating dollar that causes that, though. MOAR GRAFZ are needed.


Against the Euro;

Attachment:
steady.JPG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Everyone but Zardoz is better than me at videogames.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:15 
User avatar
EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
markg wrote:
I'm not sure why the markets would react to the start of Brexit negotiations anyway, it was something that has been scheduled to happen for months.


I think it's the fact that some small measure of economic stability has been predicated on us at least having a slight modicum of skill in negotiation.

Us wandering out of the first meeting having backed the fuck down on just about everything we banged the desk about indicates a government in a weak position.

_________________
Everyone but Zardoz is better than me at videogames.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:15 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69502
Location: Your Mum
It looks bad, but that's about half a penny. Is that bad? It doesn't strike me as bad.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
Quote:
The sterling ERI has fallen close to 20% from its November 2015 peak. Since then, UK-focused equity prices have fallen by over 2%. In contrast, broader equity price indices such as the FTSE 100 and S&P 500, which more heavily reflect global economic considerations, are almost 20% and 40% higher respectively (in sterling terms). UK 10-year real government bond yields have fallen 115 basis points; by contrast 10-year real government bond yields in the US are down by around 25 basis points only


Said the bank guy, and he went on

Quote:
Markets have already anticipated some of the adjustment. Depending on whether and when any transition arrangement can be agreed, firms on either side of the channel may soon need to activate contingency plans. Before long, we will all begin to find out the extent to which Brexit is a gentle stroll along a smooth path to a land of cake and consumption

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:26 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
Grim... wrote:
It looks bad, but that's about half a penny. Is that bad? It doesn't strike me as bad.

That's the thing isn't it. Look at that same graph over a 2 month period and today might not even be a blip.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:28 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
For example. Here's a month of data
Attachment:
euro.PNG


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:29 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38439
And that entire graph covers 5 cents


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:35 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49232
Cavey wrote:
Trouble is, of course, people (well, most people ;) ) get wiser with age, and tend towards small c Conservativism as they get older. It stands to reason; people see more of life and gather knowledge and experience (plus, they have more to lose, and they'll remember first hand the disastrous outcomes of previous Labour governments directly). So the simplistic idealism of youth is gradually supplanted by a wiser pragmatism. So basically, I don't see the Tories' sensible, intelligent and pragmatic voter base dying off any time soon. Good grief... :D


See, I don't think this is true at all. I don't think people trend conservative as they get older, I think conservative voters are ageing. The big tory voter block is now those people who remember the (disastrous) labour government of the 1970s. You're not seeing gen X start going from Labour to Conservative, it's just not happening. The Conservative party has some real thinking to do about how it takes itself forward. IMO it needs to kick the rancid old hardliners to the curb and form a new, sensibly right of centre pro-business party. Pretending that 2017 is the same as 1980 is killing the party and the country.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:38 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55715
Location: California
The 25-34 age group saw a massive swing towards Labour since 2015.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 13:01 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16552
Cras wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Trouble is, of course, people (well, most people ;) ) get wiser with age, and tend towards small c Conservativism as they get older. It stands to reason; people see more of life and gather knowledge and experience (plus, they have more to lose, and they'll remember first hand the disastrous outcomes of previous Labour governments directly). So the simplistic idealism of youth is gradually supplanted by a wiser pragmatism. So basically, I don't see the Tories' sensible, intelligent and pragmatic voter base dying off any time soon. Good grief... :D


See, I don't think this is true at all. I don't think people trend conservative as they get older, I think conservative voters are ageing. The big tory voter block is now those people who remember the (disastrous) labour government of the 1970s. You're not seeing gen X start going from Labour to Conservative, it's just not happening. The Conservative party has some real thinking to do about how it takes itself forward. IMO it needs to kick the rancid old hardliners to the curb and form a new, sensibly right of centre pro-business party. Pretending that 2017 is the same as 1980 is killing the party and the country.

I think that whatever they do their Brexit mess is going to cast a long shadow. The younger generation overwhelmingly didn't want it and they will remember this government with about the same level of fondness cavey has for Labour.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 13:20 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14483
Related to the above few posts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 98386.html

Quote:
Conservative voters dying out at rate of 2% per year, Lord Heseltine warns

‘One thing which is just worth having in mind: 2 per cent of the older part of the electorate die every year - they are 70 per cent Conservative’


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 13:25 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
Posts: 8293
Cras wrote:
You're not seeing gen X start going from Labour to Conservative, it's just not happening. The Conservative party has some real thinking to do about how it takes itself forward. IMO it needs to kick the rancid old hardliners to the curb and form a new, sensibly right of centre pro-business party. Pretending that 2017 is the same as 1980 is killing the party and the country.

I think that statement needs some clarification. You're not seeing Gen X start going from Labour to this Conservative. Referendum aside, Cameron did pretty well out of the Yoot (sufficiently enough in 2015 in any event). If the ref hadn't happened (or, had come in as the correct answer), and Cameron had then called the 2017 election anyway, I've a feeling he would have deliverered the majority that everyone thought May would have now.

The issue is with this Conservative party though. I can't realistically see May or any of the current shitballoons who are tipped for leader (with the notable exception of Ruth Davidson, who can be PM even as an MSP, but this isn't going to happen soon) ever making any form of progress in this area. Maybe, maybe Hammond could if his recent noisiness is a push for the top job, and he could have a reasonable change as a Major-esque candidate, but I can't see him having the desire for doing that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 14:28 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14130
Location: Shropshire, UK
I think Cavey's right on a historical basis, I reckon that previously as people have aged they do tend to become more conservative - I attribute this to them finally getting "sorted" in terms of property, career, kids etc. and not really wanting to give away too much of their hard earned income.

However, the generations that are ageing now are of the ilk that are increasingly unlikely to ever really get much of a foot on the property ladder, or get a decently paid job, or have much in terms of prospects. So they're probably going to stay closer to Labour's ideals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 14:55 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 1982
Cras wrote:
The Conservative party has some real thinking to do about how it takes itself forward. IMO it needs to kick the rancid old hardliners to the curb and form a new, sensibly right of centre pro-business party. Pretending that 2017 is the same as 1980 is killing the party and the country.


E.g. maybe think about not making a deal with the DUP?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 15:19 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
GazChap wrote:
However, the generations that are ageing now are of the ilk that are increasingly unlikely to ever really get much of a foot on the property ladder, or get a decently paid job, or have much in terms of prospects.


In Shoreditch's Box Village there's a ball pit for grown ups. Millennials deserve that future.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 15:24 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48607
Location: Cheshire
MaliA wrote:
GazChap wrote:
However, the generations that are ageing now are of the ilk that are increasingly unlikely to ever really get much of a foot on the property ladder, or get a decently paid job, or have much in terms of prospects.


In Shoreditch's Box Village there's a ball pit for grown ups. Millennials deserve that future.


And that Flight Club place can get to fuck and all.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 14340 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209 ... 287  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Columbo, Satsuma and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.