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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 13:39 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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We need to deal with the bigger issues first. A segregated carriage for people who think that its reasonable to take up a seat with their bag on a rush hour train is first on the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 13:52 
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What about people eating cheese and onion pasties on packed train carriages? I'm not sure your priorities are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:01 
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My pet hate is some young, well-bodied twat sitting in priority disabled seat on the Tube, with some elderly lady positively falling all over him for six stops and still does not give up his seat.

I've said something before now and just been told to knob off, and even the person I've said it for has looked mortified, too. 8) Needless to say, no-one else says owt, and all wear that "...I can't believe you've said something on the Tube to people you don't know, you complete northern oik" look.

Other than that, people who don't appear to know what deodorant is for, mothball-chewers entirely unacquainted with either toothbrush or mouthwash and/or eaters of raw garlic (or at least, those filling an entire hot carriage with garlic-stench that makes me gag) aren't exactly my favorites, either. Paramount among even these is the sick-burp emitting, semi-conscious drunk, whom you're terrified of entering into his 3 metre radius projectile vomit exclusion zone - like some fetid, foul-smelling, piss-stained Mount Vesuvius in human form, venting sulphurous fume and showing distinct warning signs of imminent, catastrophic eruption. :D Ah, the joys of public transport...

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:01 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Actually, the worst problem is women (and I'm afraid it is only women, albeit only a handful) who get on a packed rush hour train, sit in a seat, and proceed to apply make-up vigorously for the length of the entire journey - often creating a cloud of foundation powder in their wake (and over peoples suits) and a lot of painful elbows in ribs as they frantically buff away. And then, seemingly unaware of their antisocial behaviour to date, tut and sigh when someone moves a fraction of an inch within 20 yards of them as they try and precisely apply mascara, normally as the train is going over some points.

But Corbyns 'plan' inadvertently solves that one too.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:02 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
We need to deal with the bigger issues first. A segregated carriage for people who think that its reasonable to take up a seat with their bag on a rush hour train is first on the list.


A carriage which automatically catches fire, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:03 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Actually, the worst problem is women (and I'm afraid it is only women, albeit only a handful) who get on a packed rush hour train, sit in a seat, and proceed to apply make-up vigorously for the length of the entire journey - often creating a cloud of foundation powder in their wake (and over peoples suits) and a lot of painful elbows in ribs as they frantically buff away. And then, seemingly unaware of their antisocial behaviour to date, tut and sigh when someone moves a fraction of an inch within 20 yards of them as they try and precisely apply mascara, normally as the train is going over some points.

But Corbyns 'plan' inadvertently solves that one too.


Men only trains? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:06 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Actually, the worst problem is women (and I'm afraid it is only women, albeit only a handful) who get on a packed rush hour train, sit in a seat, and proceed to apply make-up vigorously for the length of the entire journey - often creating a cloud of foundation powder in their wake (and over peoples suits) and a lot of painful elbows in ribs as they frantically buff away. And then, seemingly unaware of their antisocial behaviour to date, tut and sigh when someone moves a fraction of an inch within 20 yards of them as they try and precisely apply mascara, normally as the train is going over some points.

But Corbyns 'plan' inadvertently solves that one too.

I've seen people applying make up whilst driving,moo. It's ridiculous.

... But don't pretend to us you don't put your Lipstick and mascara on whilst on the tube, you pretty thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:12 
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Mimi wrote:
I've seen people applying make up whilst driving,moo.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:13 
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Bamba wrote:
Mimi wrote:
I've seen people applying make up whilst driving,moo.


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:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:15 
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It's not entirely forced segregation, just a safe space within a larger area. One carriage in ten. We won't be herding women into them and pulling them away from their husbands, etc.

And I think this is more about consistent 'low level' harrassment rather than all out assaults. To police that would be pretty much impossible without every third passenger being a cop.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:18 
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This could be avoided if all these train wankers would just use cars instead, like proper people. Concrete over the lot of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:19 
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My uni used to offer a night bus after all the paid busses had finished travelling to help stranded people get back to their halls.

It was women only, even if you were travelling in a pair or as a group, so the women would get on, and leave their drunk men friends stranded in a ditch or where-ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:20 
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10 carriages! Lucky to get 4 at rush hour to leeds on airedale line

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:23 
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Curiosity wrote:
It's not entirely forced segregation, just a safe space within a larger area. One carriage in ten. We won't be herding women into them and pulling them away from their husbands, etc.

And I think this is more about consistent 'low level' harrassment rather than all out assaults. To police that would be pretty much impossible without every third passenger being a cop.

Yes, and if it did happen I'd open this up to not being just women, but family groups (men and women) accompanying children.

You sometimes get similar areas in football grounds, where I used to take the twins out.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 14:27 
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Mr Russell wrote:
My uni used to offer a night bus after all the paid busses had finished travelling to help stranded people get back to their halls.

It was women only, even if you were travelling in a pair or as a group, so the women would get on, and leave their drunk men friends stranded in a ditch or where-ever.


There used to be a free bus for all students where I was.

Though there was also a scheme that if you were stranded and without money, you called or hailed a cab and the porter would cover the fare. It was to stop students being stranded alone after getting separated whilst out. There had been a series of student rapes, and for tge sake of the occasional covered fare was a great scheme that potentially stopped a number of awful things.

I don't know anyone who ever needed or used it, personally, but it was a well advertised scheme, and one that was appreciated for tge knowledge it existed.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 15:05 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
We need to deal with the bigger issues first. A segregated carriage for people who think that its reasonable to take up a seat with their bag on a rush hour train is first on the list.


I noticed on a commuter train from London to Brighton on Friday that a lot of people get on at London Bridge, sit down in the aisle seat at a table, then fall asleep, annexing the window seat like a colossal, selfish, snoring ape. In the same carriage I witnessed four men do the same thing.

They will be sorry when they wake up with my crotch in their face as I climb over them in a straddly fashion.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 15:07 
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Findus Fop wrote:
They will be sorry when they wake up with my crotch in their face as I climb over them in a straddly fashion.


"Teabag" 'em? :D

I should imagine that's almost as bad a faux pas as talking to someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 15:11 
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Mimi wrote:
What about people eating cheese and onion pasties on packed train carriages? I'm not sure your priorities are correct.


I nearly had to move carriages the other day. 7.30am on Thursday, on the London Overground. Middle-aged lady sat next to me, opened a large Tupperware container and started eating lasagna and chips. 7.30 in the morning! It was so gross I almost felt like applauding her chutzpah. I hope to see her next week for a pre-sunrise moussaka and garlic bread, or maybe a casserole.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 15:12 
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Cavey wrote:
Findus Fop wrote:
They will be sorry when they wake up with my crotch in their face as I climb over them in a straddly fashion.


"Teabag" 'em? :D

I should imagine that's almost as bad a faux pas as talking to someone.


Good God man. I could ask them to move but, y'know, London.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 15:20 
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:D

Crikey, we don't have these problems in Crewe or Middlewich... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 16:23 
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I am in Middlewich this weekend

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 17:15 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Poor caveys house price :(


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 17:24 
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MaliA wrote:
I am in Middlewich this weekend


Really? Are you about around late lunch, we could have a quick get together and a pint! :)
(I am doing mega Wedding Mk II (tm) preps though and am under orders, so soz mate it could only be a flying hello! I'd bring the Harley though! :) )

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 17:25 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Poor caveys house price :(


:D

Our house isn't in Middlewich old bean :p

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 18:27 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Cavey wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Poor caveys house price :(


:D

Our house isn't in Middlewich old bean :p

You clearly don't realise how big a splatterzone Malia creates.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 18:33 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I am in Middlewich this weekend


Really? Are you about around late lunch, we could have a quick get together and a pint! :)
(I am doing mega Wedding Mk II (tm) preps though and am under orders, so soz mate it could only be a flying hello! I'd bring the Harley though! :) )


I will see what The Agenda is, as MrsA us somewhat regimented about these weekends in a cottage with a group. Hopefully i should be able to get away.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 18:34 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Cavey wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Poor caveys house price :(


:D

Our house isn't in Middlewich old bean :p

You clearly don't realise how big a splatterzone Malia creates.


Broken hearts and shattered dreams, broken hearts and shattered dreams.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 21:46 
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Gogmagog

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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I am in Middlewich this weekend


Really? Are you about around late lunch, we could have a quick get together and a pint! :)
(I am doing mega Wedding Mk II (tm) preps though and am under orders, so soz mate it could only be a flying hello! I'd bring the Harley though! :) )


I will see what The Agenda is, as MrsA us somewhat regimented about these weekends in a cottage with a group. Hopefully i should be able to get away.


Saturday looks best. We cannot get in until 3pm so I think we might arrive in the vicinity at about half one to grab lunch. I shall find out more and let you know tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:46 
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In the interests of balance there are a fair few articles around the place (including from women) defending Corbyn on several points, notably:

1) There really is a problem with harassment and assaults on women on trains, which is getting worse - and in lieu of LOADS OF MONEY to spend on a magic army of police and extra staff and all that lovely stuff (because as we know the Tories love chucking money at this sort of thing), safe carriages for women might not be such a terrible idea. Whilst the separate carriages might not be their top choice, sometimes a compromise a decent option in lieu of the ideal solution.

2) It's a system that's used in several other countries with apparently, some degree of success and acceptance.

3) It's not a policy statement, it's one of several things Corbyn would consider as part of a wider package of measures designed to make life better for women in a range of situations and scenarios (no bad thing, surely?). He's also explicitly stated that it would be a inclusive consultation process with, y'know, loads of women.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:53 
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http://www.allmediascotland.com/broadca ... -together/

Fucking yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:21 
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Re: Corbyn and trains, this nails it for me. It's a stupid idea, but the reaction to it has also been stupid.

Quote:
The women's-only carriages idea is logistically, politically and morally unsound. But considering it and saying you want to consult women over it is hardly worthy of the hysterical responses we've seen this morning. This is the punishment for politicians who dare to express opinions clearly. This is what has helped create the current generation of political pygmies in Westminster.

It's why families who help their loved-ones with assisted dying must do so while technically breaking the law because we have politicians without the bravery to discuss the issue. It's why politicians speak in a way which constantly hedges their bets, without ever saying anything of value. It's why we have a prime minister who can make whole speeches without a single identifiable meaningful political statement in them. It's why Corbyn is facing three candidates who are seemingly incapable of expressing what it is they actually want to do with power.

Our instinctive response to people expressing political opinions especially, but not exclusively, in the world of gender, race and sexuality is the witch hunt and collective craziness. Merely considering a consultation on something is now considered offensive and unacceptable.

And then, when everyone calms down, they will watch Newsnight and complain that politicians all sound the same. What happened to all the politicians with character, they will ask? Well we killed them all off, by losing our minds at the slightest provocation.


http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/08 ... -shows-why


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:27 
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We should pay women less than men so they would be less inclined to work and then not be able to afford train travel.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:00 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Re: Corbyn and trains, this nails it for me. It's a stupid idea, but the reaction to it has also been stupid.

Quote:
The women's-only carriages idea is logistically, politically and morally unsound. But considering it and saying you want to consult women over it is hardly worthy of the hysterical responses we've seen this morning. This is the punishment for politicians who dare to express opinions clearly. This is what has helped create the current generation of political pygmies in Westminster.

It's why families who help their loved-ones with assisted dying must do so while technically breaking the law because we have politicians without the bravery to discuss the issue. It's why politicians speak in a way which constantly hedges their bets, without ever saying anything of value. It's why we have a prime minister who can make whole speeches without a single identifiable meaningful political statement in them. It's why Corbyn is facing three candidates who are seemingly incapable of expressing what it is they actually want to do with power.

Our instinctive response to people expressing political opinions especially, but not exclusively, in the world of gender, race and sexuality is the witch hunt and collective craziness. Merely considering a consultation on something is now considered offensive and unacceptable.

And then, when everyone calms down, they will watch Newsnight and complain that politicians all sound the same. What happened to all the politicians with character, they will ask? Well we killed them all off, by losing our minds at the slightest provocation.


http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/08 ... -shows-why


I think that's good reasoning.

However, one aspect that I would add is that the hysterical reaction comes from the non Corbyn supporting end of the spectrum, and the more reasoned response comes from his supporters.

In a parallel universe, where Cameron was asked the same question and provided a response that was word for word, and tonally exactly the same, the backlash would have been even more virulent about patronising and condescending Tories who want to hide rather than deal with the problem because they hate women, and derived primarily from those self same Corbyn supporters.

Its not that a politician isn't allowed to express opinions that you may disagree with, its that a politician who you don't support isn't allowed to express opinions that you disagree with. And if said politician does say something that you find reasonable, tribalism means you must either pretend you didn't hear it, or rip a new arse out of the tiny aspect that wasn't expressed how you would.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:07 
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That's definitely true however the reaction from one side is massively amplified in the minds of the public by the overwhelmingly right-wing press.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:31 
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markg wrote:
That's definitely true however the reaction from one side is massively amplified in the minds of the public by the overwhelmingly right-wing press.


We should stamp this out by lowering literacy levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:42 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
However, one aspect that I would add is that the hysterical reaction comes from the non Corbyn supporting end of the spectrum, and the more reasoned response comes from his supporters.

In a parallel universe, where Cameron was asked the same question and provided a response that was word for word, and tonally exactly the same, the backlash would have been even more virulent about patronising and condescending Tories who want to hide rather than deal with the problem because they hate women, and derived primarily from those self same Corbyn supporters.
Absolutely agree that it's a bipartisan issue, and indeed as the OP quote says, extends beyond politics and into public figures of all walks of life.

The obvious counter example from the other side of the pond is Trump, and what popularity he is enjoying from a select nunber of US voters is because he is diametrically opposed to the inspid speech patterns of someone who is afraid of offending anyone. I think that's at the root of what people pick up on when they say things like "outside the Westminster bubble" or "a breath of fresh air." Farage has a bit of that about him too.

Quote:
Its not that a politician isn't allowed to express opinions that you may disagree with, its that a politician who you don't support isn't allowed to express opinions that you disagree with. And if said politician does say something that you find reasonable, tribalism means you must either pretend you didn't hear it, or rip a new arse out of the tiny aspect that wasn't expressed how you would.
Sure, but there's always going to be a vehement, vocal number of the other side's base doing that. That's a given. What isn't a given is: how much attention does the media pay to these views, and how much attention do the politicians pay to it? There's a stereotype at play here of the career politician, the professional vote-winner, never taking a clear stand that could cost them even one vote - which is any stand at all, of course. Like many stereotypes, it's an exaggeration but there's a kernel of truth there, regardless of what colour tie they're wearing.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:48 
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The fact of the matter, though, whilst I find myself much in agreement with what Corbyn says, having him as leader would be a terrible idea for the party. It would be unsavoury for the electorate, poor for the PLP and banish the country to at least another decade of Tory rule.

As much as I hate to say it, I am going to have to be pragmatic about it all and doing what is right for the country as a whole is not supporting Corbyn.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:56 
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I am pleased the White House and HilCli is taking a bit more of a stance on guns in the US than previously. Although the former has less to lose. It is time America grew up on this. Roanoke has a good railway museum, if memory serves.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:05 
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MaliA wrote:
The fact of the matter teaming, though, whilst I find myself much in agreement with what Corbyn says, having him as leader would be a terrible idea for the party. It would be unsavoury yo the electorate, poor for the PLP and banish the country to at least another evade of Tory rule.

As much as I hate to say it, I am going to have to he pragmatic about it all and doing what is right for the country as a whole is not supporting Corbyn.

For better or worse, I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:54 
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Frankie Boyle's turned out to be a pretty decent political columnist:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ip-contest

Quote:
Yvette Cooper, whose name sounds like something Jeremy Corbyn drove in the 1960s, says Corbyn doesn’t have answers for the future. She doesn’t have a particularly firm grasp of the future either, as she spent the first three months of this year telling us that Ed Miliband would be prime minister.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:12 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Re: Corbyn and trains, this nails it for me. It's a stupid idea, but the reaction to it has also been stupid.

Quote:
The women's-only carriages idea is logistically, politically and morally unsound. But considering it and saying you want to consult women over it is hardly worthy of the hysterical responses we've seen this morning. This is the punishment for politicians who dare to express opinions clearly. This is what has helped create the current generation of political pygmies in Westminster.


Hmm, well, "hysteria" would seem a little strong, personally I'd go with "utter incredulity" (certainly as far as any of his detractors' comments here, and elsewhere that I've personally read, though I can't speak for the Daily Mail brigade).

Speaking for myself, as I said to Mimi earlier, I think it's entirely right that we should criticise him for floating what almost everyone agrees, including here (and the article you quote), is a totally stupid idea, howsoever caveated re. "consulting women's groups" or whatever. Fundamentally, if an idea is stupid and unworkable in any practical terms, it shouldn't even get past the first hurdle, let alone put out there in the public domain as this has been, and proposed for further consultation.

Quote:
It's why families who help their loved-ones with assisted dying must do so while technically breaking the law because we have politicians without the bravery to discuss the issue. It's why politicians speak in a way which constantly hedges their bets, without ever saying anything of value. It's why we have a prime minister who can make whole speeches without a single identifiable meaningful political statement in them. It's why Corbyn is facing three candidates who are seemingly incapable of expressing what it is they actually want to do with power.

Our instinctive response to people expressing political opinions especially, but not exclusively, in the world of gender, race and sexuality is the witch hunt and collective craziness. Merely considering a consultation on something is now considered offensive and unacceptable.

And then, when everyone calms down, they will watch Newsnight and complain that politicians all sound the same. What happened to all the politicians with character, they will ask? Well we killed them all off, by losing our minds at the slightest provocation.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/08 ... -shows-why


Oh, I agree with that sentiment entirely, though you should note, of course, that no single political party has done more to promote the PR-managed/obsessed drone than Labour, from the Blair/Campbell era onwards, "sofa government" and all the rest, with the vast rump of their parliamentary party treated with contempt. That they now find themselves so desperate for an ideology - any ideology - and political identity/soul, after decades of this kind of vapid pursuit of power for its own sake (as I've been saying for years), is precisely why they are listening with such rapt attention and adulation to some 32-year served backbencher who's been overlooked in all of that time, doubtless with good reason - now belming cheerfully away, with half-arsed, unthinking, simplistic crap like this.

The women-only carriage thing may well be as mad as a box of frogs for sure, but not half as bad as some of the other stuff he's saying re. the economy, QE for the people, taxation, defence etc. etc. But, Corbyn at least DOES have a coherent, earnest, identifiable ideology (even if it is swivel-eyed), and that distinguishes him from the other three (who don't). In this near-perfect vacuum where the bar is surely so, so low, this alone lends him an air of authenticity that the others don't have, at least in the eyes of their collective, long-suffering electorate.

The point about just speaking plainly is that this is very, very risky - great men and women of politics, far greater than any of this sorry shower of would-be Labour leaders - have come a cropper over the years doing just that. It's HARD; so much easier just to trot out the same old platitudes, cliches, the dodged answers to questions, the inoffensive party line that someone's told you to say and sticking rigidly to it for dear life. So whilst New Labour was very much all about controlling what people in the parliamentary party said and no-one could be "off message", actually there are very few, if any within the Labour Party who have/had the requisite belief, conviction, properly formed ideology and intellectual horsepower to have done any different, even if they were allowed to and/or had the inclination to do it anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:21 
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Hearthly wrote:
Frankie Boyle's turned out to be a pretty decent political columnist:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ip-contest

Quote:
Yvette Cooper, whose name sounds like something Jeremy Corbyn drove in the 1960s, says Corbyn doesn’t have answers for the future. She doesn’t have a particularly firm grasp of the future either, as she spent the first three months of this year telling us that Ed Miliband would be prime minister.


"Decent"? Not read the article, but going off your quote, what the hell else was she supposed to say about Ed Miliband (her leader), as within her position in the Shadow Cabinet serving under him, and in the final few months leading up to a GE? That they were going to lose?

Fuck me, honestly. With such sparkling insights such as these, I dread to think what else he's had to say. Typical Guardian luvvie tosh, then. Heard enough of this kind of shite from the likes of Russell Brand.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:32 
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Cavey wrote:
"Decent"? Not read the article, but going off your quote, what the hell else was she supposed to say about Ed Milliband (her leader), as within her position in the Shadow Cabinet serving under him, and in the final few months leading up to a GE? That they were going to lose?

Fuck me, honestly. With such sparkling insights such as these, I dread to think what else he's had to say. Typical Guardian luvvie tosh, then. Heard enough of this kind of shite from the likes of Russell Brand.


I thought it was a funny piece making a serious point, that's all.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:56 
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OT

Apparently, the Latin for "swivel-eyed loon" is Gavia articulata oculos, which sounds awesome. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 14:59 
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How come Corbyn is a swivel-eyed loon but Tony Benn was some hallowed figure whom you discussed in a reverential tone? They were close colleagues and seem pretty similar except for the fact that Corbyn is not dead and didn't used to be on telly as much.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 15:09 
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markg wrote:
How come Corbyn is a swivel-eyed loon but Tony Benn was some hallowed figure whom you discussed in a reverential tone? They were close colleagues and seem pretty similar except for the fact that Corbyn is not dead and didn't used to be on telly as much.


I respected Tony Benn for his long years of service at the top of British politics, as an intellectual, great author (including his diaries and tapes, whose serialisation I very much enjoyed). He was also, it should be noted, a man of his time, i.e. the 1960s and 1970s and early 80s (at such time when the world did not yet,fully realise the utter folly of Socialism, as compared to now when this is empirically demonstrated. Tony Benn didn't have the benefit of hindsight, by and large, whereas Corbyn does)

Corbyn might have long(ish) service on his side but even then, only within the policial wilderness - and bugger all else. Seriously, just what exactly has he achieved in 32 years in parliament? Does it not make you wonder why the likes of Foot, Smith and Kinnock, all well before the New Labour era, totally passed him over even to serve as a junior shadow minister, if he's so brilliant according to you?

It's perfectly possible to respect someone you fundamentally and diametrically disagree with, on just about every level. I hardly think I've ever said or claimed that I regard Benn as some "hallowed figure", but certainly I respected and admired him as the considerable intellect and radical thinker that he was, as well as for his bravery, good intentions and integrity, and powerful oratory right to the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 15:27 
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I don't think I've ever said he is brilliant, just that they shared very similar views. The fact that he supported Benn in his opposition to much of the rest of the party and doesn't vote how he is told to seems a more ready explanation of his being "overlooked" for jobs in government or the shadow cabinet. He seems to be a capable MP if nothing else.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 15:50 
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Just out of curiosity, how would folks here go about tackling the harassment of women on public transport, if at all?

If Corbyn is wrong to have said that he'd consult women's groups on the matter, what should his response have been, in aid to lead to what action, if any?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 16:13 
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Who was that lady on Radio 4 this morning who said she objected to a special carriage and that there should be a campaign and posters and sexism and assault tackled until it was, presumably, eradicated?

Just like racism and all the other isms and the (rising) number of assaults that don't exist because of public campaigns.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 16:25 
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Saturnalian wrote:
Who was that lady on Radio 4 this morning who said she objected to a special carriage and that there should be a campaign and posters and sexism and assault tackled until it was, presumably, eradicated?

Just like racism and all the other isms and the (rising) number of assaults that don't exist because of public campaigns.


This is what I am asking for, really. Raising awareness is good, and something that should be done at every opportunity. Unfortunately it does not 'solve' the issue, and I think that most people who had been harassed would agree that what they want is a solution to the harassment rather than just awareness being raised about it.

So, as far as practical solutions are concerned, I can only think that measures need to be put in place to stop it happening, or properly punish those that inflict it when it does happen.

So do we massively increase the staff and police presence on the transport network? This would be a great solution, but who is going to pay for that to happen when they are cutting police numbers? Or can you think of a way of protecting those at most risk of teh harassment? Or do you just ignore it and not see it as a problem?

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