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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 18:38 
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If I were your employer, I'd make you work nights so I would not have to look at you.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 20:03 
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MaliA wrote:
If I were your employer, I'd make you work nights so I would not have to look at you.


If I were your employee, I'd work them.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 20:41 
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Awww, you guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:38 

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:14 
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[edit] never mind. Carry on.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:19 

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:32 
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Cobracure wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
[edit] never mind. Carry on.


Yeah. I will.


X

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzsfyxACV7M

You fucking coward.

"Imagine a king who fights his own battles"

"Is there no one else?"


Sorry, this is just too much now. Kissyfur's a good friend of mine, I'll be buggered if I'll sit by and watch you abuse him like this for having the temerity to say to you what most of us are doubtless thinking.

Just what "battle" are you expecting him, me, or anyone else to "fight" with you (and if we don't, we're all "cowards"?) Do you imagine that I'm some Conan the Barbarian type figure to be vanquished by your posts on some internet forum? Is that how it goes in your head? Get a grip, for fuck's sake.

We've got our own lives to lead and real world problems to deal with; you know, kids, grandkids, careers, mortgage payments, whatever. 'Fighting' some totally pointless and frankly worrying 'battles' with some random on the internet comes pretty far down the list I'd say, at least for us.

For my part I let your Politics thread comments about 'put any shit in his [mine] thread' or whatever slide because (a) I don't want bad feeling on the forum and (b) I don't give a flying toss anyway, I have real life stuff to worry about as I've said, but you're still here with this stuff regardless. You particularly need to make a mental note of (b), here.

I suggest you need to take a step back, press that 'reset' button in your head and ask yourself what are you even trying to achieve. As I've made patently clear, I don't want to play, and I very much suspect no-one else does either.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:50 
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Legendary Boogeyman

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I've said it before but I'll say it again. This bloke, whoever he is, has serious mental issues. Case in point the thread where he ranted at me saying that he'll 'finish it' between us when I argued with him about something or other. He just gave the impression of being a complete frigging nutbar. An internet hardman trying far too hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:01 
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Cavey wrote:
Do you imagine that I'm some Conan the Barbarian type figure to be vanquished by your posts on some internet forum?

That's totally how I imagine you. If that's not the case I'm going to be well upset.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:02 
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Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Do you imagine that I'm some Conan the Barbarian type figure to be vanquished by your posts on some internet forum?

That's totally how I imagine you. If that's not the case I'm going to be well upset.


You're gonna be disappointed, dude. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 14:00 

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 14:10 
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Good man. :)
Moving on, nothing to see here. :hug:

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 19:02 
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Well, looks like poor old Greece is toast, then.

I'm not saying they (successive Greek governments, especially this current one, and even the Greek people to an extent) don't have some culpability in all of this, of course they do. Y'know, it's kinda necessary to collect taxes; even the richest countries on Earth can't afford to give lifetime final salary pension schemes to its 45-year old hairdressers and bingo callers; actually making and exporting stuff also helps. But, there can't really be too much doubt that, not withstanding all the milk-and-honey Wongadosh economics and the endless borrowing of the Greeks, they, the citizens of this European project have been hung out to dry in the name of preserving a mere currency; a currency that it was clearly lunacy for them, and many other EU States to have ever signed up to. As everyone must surely now appreciate - even the most ardent supporters of the Euro - a currency union of this scale, with such politically, culturally and most importantly economically diverse would-be States absolutely cannot work long term without full and unflinching political union. That, of course, is never going to happen, not least as evidenced by the aforestated let 'em hang out to dry approach.

I've said it before many times and I'll say it again; Greece being ejected from the Euro will only hasten the inevitable complete demise of that currency, howsoever cynically 'firewalled' the bankers think this is after 2-3 years in the planning. No-one will ever believe 'cast iron' assurances from the EU ever again. Confidence, once lost, cannot easily (if ever) be regained.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 20:23 
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It certainly makes the whole project creak about its axis. You could get a week's break (half board, including flights) for £113 the other week, with the man on the bbc pretty saying if you took euros you would probably almost drink for free in the taverna the next night so desperate businesses would be to avoid the exit.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 20:55 
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Ugh. I'd really rather Greece didn't leave.

Mainly because I made a scenario about it for our business planning, and I don't want it to be shown as the work of spectacular fiction that it was.

As for the Euro, any monetary union without fully centralised fiscal policy ain't gonna last.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 20:59 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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Curiosity wrote:
Ugh. I'd really rather Greece didn't leave.

Mainly because I made a scenario about it for our business planning, and I don't want it to be shown as the work of spectacular fiction that it was.

As for the Euro, any monetary union without fully centralised fiscal policy ain't gonna last.

Those scenarios never work anyway. I have a client who is holding an amount of Greek bonds in case it cane good. You guys are no longer my worst!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:04 
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There is the advantage that a weakened Euro would be handy for trips to the continent in the upcoming months ;)

As of today the Euro->Pound rate is at its highest for a year.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:01 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
There is the advantage that a weakened Euro would be handy for trips to the continent in the upcoming months ;)

As of today the Euro->Pound rate is at its highest for a year.

Annoyingly, I have €500 in cash at home.

Even more annoyingly, the reason I didn't change it back was because I was (a) Hungover to buggery at the airport (and only had a stupid amount of cash as I'd taken a stupid amount out whilst very drunk the night before, causing said hangover) and (b) thought I may as well hold onto it as I'm off to Athens in September.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:47 
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I am sure most of us have played Civilisation. Would anyone be surprised if Greece announced themselves a vassal state of Germany, with full fiscal control by the Germans?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 16:53 
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Bobbyaro wrote:
I am sure most of us have played Civilisation. Would anyone be surprised if Greece announced themselves a vassal state of Germany, with full fiscal control by the Germans?


Meh. Actually, the Germans wouldn't touch em with a barge pole - that's basically the problem (from a European Federalist perspective, i.e. the EU's enshrined agenda, you know, the one they've fallen at the first hurdle on)

It's all so bloody stupid, what is it with these fucking people and their idiotic, grand vanity projects...? I'm no "kipper" and in fact used to regard myself as quite the Europhile (albeit I've never believed the Euro itself would fly, as oft-stated), but really, the last 2-3 years in particular have turned my stomach.

By the same token and relatedly, what is with (usually the same) people who insist on dodging, funking, vacillating and kicking the fucking can down the street when it's as plain as the nose on my face that, sooner or later, the nettle is going to have to be grasped and the longer said can is kicked, the darn sight worse it's going to be for all concerned? Sheesh, these people wouldn't last 5 minutes in business, yet they're entrusted to run institutions controlling tens and hundreds of billions of pounds (that they piss away). Gnnngh.

Greece is flat, flat broke, deal with it already. Give 'em back their currency (along with everyone else in the Eurozone), let them default (as there is NO other option long term), let them massively devalue. At least the terrible economic pain they'll endure will actually (eventually) have a positive outcome for them, unlike now. Let's get back to the EU being a collective of participants in a free trade zone; we could call it.......... the EEC, which has a familiar ring to it. :roll:

Banker's Rocket Science Lesson of the Day: don't lend to people or governments who have no means to repay. Fuck me, you'd have thought the twats would've worked that one out by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 18:19 
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Cavey wrote:
Sheesh, these people wouldn't last 5 minutes in business, yet they're entrusted to run institutions controlling tens and hundreds of billions of pounds (that they piss away). Gnnngh. ...Greece is flat, flat broke, deal with it already.... Banker's Rocket Science Lesson of the Day: don't lend to people or governments who have no means to repay. Fuck me, you'd have thought the twats would've worked that one out by now.
Uhh, the bankers who lent to Greece and started this merry-go-round *were* the people in business you seem to venerate. They're a more fundamental source of the problem than any current Greek or German politicians. The massive ECB and IMF loans propping up Greece's economy are essentially a bailout of German, French and (to a lesser extent) UK banks who lent money to the Greeks on dodgy loans they couldn't hope to repay. They're underwriting Greek loan repayments; loans on which the bankers have not (yet) accepted any sort of partial losses, I might add. I don't see how you can shoehorn your reflexive narrative of "public sector bad, private sector good" into that one.

Also, the Greek economy has run at an honest-to-God surplus for most of the last eight quarters, which is much more than the Conservatives have managed in the UK. By your usual metric, the Greek economy is being more competently managed.

Edit -- fleshed out my post a bit


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 19:19 
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But how can they ever hope to pay it back?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 20:14 
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Grim... wrote:
But how can they ever hope to pay it back?

Fucked if I know. If the economy continues to run at a surplus, in theory they are capable of repayments. In practice the surplus was pitiful compared to the money it owes. Seems unlikely to me the situation was sustainable, but the EU has been propping it up for five years, so what do I know? Maybe every politician was hoping the house of cards would fall down on the next person's watch.

Meanwhile, austerity has deepened the recession in Greece beyond anything seen elsewhere in Europe. Wages have declined to levels not seen since the '90s, unemployment is 25% (and youth unemployment as high as 55%), a 40% increase in the suicide rate (11,000 suicides so far), tens of thousands made homeless, soup kitchens in the streets of Athens serving as many as 400,000 people a day. Many of these metrics are remarkably close to the Great Depression in the '20s, or Germany's economic woes in the late '30s.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:48 
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So, whatserface has come up with a great wheeze to get more schools turned into academies. Any school that is “coasting” after the next three years (the definition of “coasting” being so wide that it will include a significant number of schools currently rated “good”) will be chucked over to an academy chain.

This is on top of the removal of the ability of schools and parents to challenge any decision to convert a school to academy status.

What is the obsession with academies? There’s no evidence they perform better than state schools - indeed the DfE did some research here that show they may be worse than state schools (but it should be noted that academies tend to start off from a “failing” school status so have more of an uphill struggle, arguably).

Ideology over evidence - the ghost of Gove continues at DfE.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:56 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Ideology over evidence - the ghost of Gove continues at DfE.


Turning failing schools into academies was a New Labour idea, mostly the work of Lord Adonis (the best named peer, ever). Gove and co. just massively expanded it them.

But yes, whilst some schools might benefit from a change of leadership in some situations, it doesn't proceed directly to the view that the academy model is best, or local government oversight/control is always wrong.

But then, has there ever been a year where politicians haven't felt the need to fiddle with schooling?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:58 
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Kern wrote:
But thn, has there ever been a year where politicians haven't felt the need to fiddle with school children

Janner FEEX.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:02 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Meanwhile, austerity has deepened the recession in Greece beyond anything seen elsewhere in Europe. Wages have declined to levels not seen since the '90s, unemployment is 25% (and youth unemployment as high as 55%), a 40% increase in the suicide rate (11,000 suicides so far), tens of thousands made homeless, soup kitchens in the streets of Athens serving as many as 400,000 people a day. Many of these metrics are remarkably close to the Great Depression in the '20s, or Germany's economic woes in the late '30s.


And I feel deeply uncomfortable with the idea promoted by some EU leaders that all this scarifice is necessary to save the euro or the EU. Nope, I think the EU and Europe could work fine without the single currency.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:41 
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Kern wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Ideology over evidence - the ghost of Gove continues at DfE.


Turning failing schools into academies was a New Labour idea, mostly the work of Lord Adonis (the best named peer, ever). Gove and co. just massively expanded it them.

But yes, whilst some schools might benefit from a change of leadership in some situations, it doesn't proceed directly to the view that the academy model is best, or local government oversight/control is always wrong.

But then, has there ever been a year where politicians haven't felt the need to fiddle with schooling?

I'd say it's all pissing into the wind until you manage to persuade the children that education is a good thing. There appears to be an undercurrent that doesn't start with that as a precept.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 13:56 
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Uhh, the bankers who lent to Greece and started this merry-go-round *were* the people in business you seem to venerate. They're a more fundamental source of the problem than any current Greek or German politicians. The massive ECB and IMF loans propping up Greece's economy are essentially a bailout of German, French and (to a lesser extent) UK banks who lent money to the Greeks on dodgy loans they couldn't hope to repay. They're underwriting Greek loan repayments; loans on which the bankers have not (yet) accepted any sort of partial losses, I might add.


Hmm, you seem to be as under the mistaken impression that I was referring to the Greek public sector./government as the principal 'villain of the piece', whereas although certainly critical of them (as stated), I was actually talking about the machinations of the EU. (I suppose you could consider the regulatory and quasi-governmental bodies of the EU as being the 'public sector' but certainly not in any conventional sense)

More pressingly, how anyone can even consider I am in any way 'venerating' the banks who lent Greece all this money, or that I consider them 'private sector' in the same way as SMEs and other real businesses that don't rely on multi-billion bailouts and nationalisations to survive etc., is truly anyone's guess, Doc. Suggest re-reading my last closing para, for one.

As I've said, successive Greek governments borrowing all this money they had no means of repaying, and those banks lending said money, are two sides of the same coin: both are clearly responsible for this. But this wasn't even what my post was supposed to be about in the main; who cares whose fault it is, we are where we are regardless, and blaming X and/or Y won't butter any parsnips that's for sure. I suppose all those banks believed all the crap about it being "impossible" for any State to be ejected from the Euro, ergo the EU itself was a de factor guarantor, but if that's the case, more fool them. Even the most cursory knowledge of how markets, and more importantly domestic German politics operates, should have told them all they needed to know. Now they're going to take one hell of a 'haircut', and it won't be the last before the whole sorry saga that is the Euro is fully played out. Bye bye German pension funds? That'll go down well...

Quote:
I don't see how you can shoehorn your reflexive narrative of "public sector bad, private sector good" into that one.


Gawd...

Quote:
Also, the Greek economy has run at an honest-to-God surplus for most of the last eight quarters, which is much more than the Conservatives have managed in the UK. By your usual metric, the Greek economy is being more competently managed.


You yourself state "fuck knows" in response to how the Greeks are ever going to pay off their existing massive debts, let alone new ones to rob Peter and pay Paul. I mean seriously, in what universe could the Greek economy ever be said to be 'competently managed'...? (Certainly not mine; as I said to you here the other day, ever increasing debt isn't 'good', because you know, it has to be paid back at some point, with crippling ongoing interest payments until it is repaid).

The fact that Greece has been in "surplus" to the tune of about a fiver a year, as against impossible billions in debt, is pretty much a moot point, I'd say. If I owed you £100 million but managed to save £20/month in a post office savings account, I assume this wouldn't cut much ice.

Look, it's a mess, you cannot get blood out of a stone and it's madness to deepen the problem even more by "bailing out" a bankrupt state to the tune of billions they can never pay, just to be able to claim they're up to date with previous (unrepayable) debts. It's just yet another example of kicking the can down the street that I've been talking about - it's ludicrous window dressing, no more. The very concept and status of the term 'bankruptcy' exists for perfectly good reason.

Clearly, the options are either GIVE them the money and/or write off the unrepayable debt, and do much to prevent the problem recurring by giving them back their currency which can then be massively devalued. Hopefully, you can now see why I said the Euro was such a crap idea all those years ago, too.

(Greece are going to default regardless, so the writing off current debts bit isn't even an option now anyway)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 14:48 
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Kern wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
Ideology over evidence - the ghost of Gove continues at DfE.


Turning failing schools into academies was a New Labour idea, mostly the work of Lord Adonis (the best named peer, ever). Gove and co. just massively expanded it them.

But yes, whilst some schools might benefit from a change of leadership in some situations, it doesn't proceed directly to the view that the academy model is best, or local government oversight/control is always wrong.

But then, has there ever been a year where politicians haven't felt the need to fiddle with schooling?


I too would be concerned about anything that's ideologically, rather than empirically driven, for sure. Before embarking on something like this, surely the facts and evidence from pilot schemes etc. need to be carefully, independently and dispassionately evaluated over time.

But, notwithstanding, in very broad terms and as a general concept, surely it's always generally better to locally empower management, i.e. the people on the ground who are best placed to know where resources need to be spent, what needs to be done etc., rather than via some part removed, centralised body? Of course, this assumes that said local management is competent and sufficiently skilled in management terms, by no means a foregone conclusion - but whatever the case, successful companies ditched the top down, centralised management model in the 1970s.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 14:52 
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Cavey wrote:
But, notwithstanding, in very broad terms and as a general concept, surely it's always generally better to locally empower management, i.e. the people on the ground who are best placed to know where resources need to be spent, what needs to be done etc., rather than via some part removed, centralised body? Of course, this assumes that said local management is competent and sufficiently skilled in management terms, by no means a foregone conclusion - but whatever the case, successful companies ditched the top down, centralised management model in the 1970s.


I suspect there is an element of truth in that, chap, but then with education you do need a significant degree of central control to ensure standard approaches to curriculum, exams, inspections etc. In terms of the control of the budgets, this would be better controlled locally – which it was, when the LEAs still had any power over anything. Handing control of schools over to what are basically private companies is not the solution, and the results of the academy schools so far would back up that assertion.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 14:54 
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund

€141,324 raised of the €1,600,000,000 target!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 15:22 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
I suspect there is an element of truth in that, chap, but then with education you do need a significant degree of central control to ensure standard approaches to curriculum, exams, inspections etc. In terms of the control of the budgets, this would be better controlled locally – which it was, when the LEAs still had any power over anything.


Agreed. :)

Quote:
Handing control of schools over to what are basically private companies is not the solution, and the results of the academy schools so far would back up that assertion.


I basically don't know either way, to be frank, but like I say, I most certainly don't ever feel comfortable with any ideology-driven politics/policies, not ever. For years I've been advocating for the shameless copying of best practices as observed (and studied in depth) from the rest of the world, in this case those countries that are reasonably socially compatible with the UK, yet seem to do much better, be it education, healthcare or whatever. Policial pride should not come into it and I for one couldn't give a fig if this is achieved via the most left wing politics imaginable - if it works, just call me Comrade Cavey I say. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 15:26 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund

€141,324 raised of the €1,600,000,000 target!


Awesome, what's four orders of magnitude between friends?
Sadly, even this €1.6 billion is barely 2% 0.5% of the total owed (corrected)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 15:32 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Cavey wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
I suspect there is an element of truth in that, chap, but then with education you do need a significant degree of central control to ensure standard approaches to curriculum, exams, inspections etc. In terms of the control of the budgets, this would be better controlled locally – which it was, when the LEAs still had any power over anything.

Agreed. :)


That's not how this is supposed to go! I came here for an argument, goddamnit! 

Quote:
Quote:
Handing control of schools over to what are basically private companies is not the solution, and the results of the academy schools so far would back up that assertion.


I basically don't know either way, to be frank, but like I say, I most certainly don't ever feel comfortable with any ideology-driven politics/policies, not ever. For years I've been advocating for the shameless copying of best practices as observed (and studied in depth) from the rest of the world, in this case those countries that are reasonably socially compatible with the UK, yet seem to do much better, be it education, healthcare or whatever. Policial pride should not come into it and I for one couldn't give a fig if this is achieved via the most left wing politics imaginable - if it works, just call me Comrade Cavey I say. :D

100% agreed, again. As Kern intimated earlier, education is one area that politicians just can’t leave alone, and it all too often does seem ideological, whether it’s curriculum changes or restructuring of the school system (academies and free schools*, I’m looking at you). What they really need to do is just look at where we’re not doing as well as we might (maths, boys’ reading and writing, women in STEM, etc) and then go out and find best practice and copy it. You know, an empirical, evidence based approach to something.

*My GOD what a massive waste of money those have been.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 15:35 
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Mr Kissyfur wrote:
...and then go out and find best practice and copy it. You know, an empirical, evidence based approach to something.


:this:

:blown:

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 16:54 
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Grim... wrote:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/greek-bailout-fund

€141,324 raised of the €1,600,000,000 target!


I'm glad you posted this. I was wondering how much they'd managed earlier. They have done very well :/


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 20:30 
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Greece: "Please, sir, can I have some more?"

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:18 
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Bailout now at 700k. A nice idea but at this point Greece need to default and exit for their own sake.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:29 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Bailout now at 700k.


Wow. Puts 'Wings over Bath' to shame!

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A nice idea but at this point Greece need to default and exit for their own sake.


Agreed. It will hurt, probably for a long time, but better than this farce recurring every few months indefinitely and the people of Greek suffering even more with even less control over their destiny.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:25 
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It's like a credit card company saying "Debt? No problem. We'll just whack it on a new card with a higher interest rate! Just keep up the minimum repayment. Forever. And you can't spend any money on anything else in the meantime that might help you pay it off faster".

I hope this ref. goes ahead . It would be interesting to see how the EU reacts to the vote. If they are not in favour of more indebted mess and it's reflection of the democratic majority, what are they going to say?

Having said that the proposed wording is bonkers and I have no idea what it means: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33311422

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:33 
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Apparently they have caved on most points, but by now the Troika want blood and are reluctant to negotiate at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 15:54 
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The Daily Mash made me lol...

Quote:
Pompous arse taking tough stance on Greece

COMPLETE nobody Roy Hobbs is demanding tough action be taken against Greece.

Hobbs is keen to see all Greeks punished, even though it is unclear how Greece’s economic problems have affected his life as a bakery supervisor in Wolverhampton.

Hobbs said: “The thought of the Greeks deciding to spend, spend, spend in a way that makes sod all difference to me makes my blood boil.

“A country’s economy is like a piggy bank. You can’t build roads and hospitals if you haven’t been putting coins in the slot. They need to be taught a harsh lesson. Only then will I be satisfied.”

Hobbs said Greece could learn from his own careful money management, such as writing down all the country’s expenditure in a notebook, even if it was small things like buying a Cornetto ‘because it all adds up’.

Hobbs’ colleague Nikki Hollis said: “I suspect the Greek financial crisis makes Roy feel less insignificant, because the only thing he’s ever achieved in his pitiful little life is being a tightfisted bastard.

“Also he reads the Daily Express and I think he just likes the idea of people being punished. I dread to think what sort of porn he’s got on his computer.”


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 5070299796


:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 15:59 
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Curiosity wrote:
Apparently they have caved on most points, but by now the Troika want blood and are reluctant to negotiate at all.


It's near-impossible to keep up tbh; one minute the Greeks have "caved in on most points" and then, apparently, mere hours later, are wishing plagues of locusts on their EU Creditors, or something. I think it's fairly clear to all concerned that this Socialist Greek administration is a complete laughing stock. Would you "lend" untold further billions to that shower, and ever expect to see so much as a single cent in interest or capital repayment that isn't itself part and parcel of yet another "bailout" set of Russian Doll loans?

At this rate, give it another 20 years, the Greeks will end up owing more dosh than the combined GDP of USA and China... that's a shedload of ouzo and olives.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 16:03 
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Kern wrote:
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
Bailout now at 700k.


Wow. Puts 'Wings over Bath' to shame!

Quote:
A nice idea but at this point Greece need to default and exit for their own sake.


Agreed. It will hurt, probably for a long time, but better than this farce recurring every few months indefinitely and the people of Greek suffering even more with even less control over their destiny.


:this:

It's at 1500k - not even a drop in the ocean, but certainly impressive in its own way, nonetheless!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 16:10 
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Cavey wrote:
It's near-impossible to keep up tbh; one minute the Greeks have "caved in on most points" and then, apparently, mere hours later, are wishing plagues of locusts on their EU Creditors, or something. I think it's fairly clear to all concerned that this Socialist Greek administration is a complete laughing stock. Would you "lend" untold further billions to that shower, and ever expect to see so much as a single cent in interest or capital repayment that isn't itself part and parcel of yet another "bailout" set of Russian Doll loans?

At this rate, give it another 20 years, the Greeks will end up owing more dosh than the combined GDP of USA and China...


To be fair, chap, they came into power with the mandate that they weren’t going to accept being ridiculously punished in a way that other shitbasket countries like Ireland and Portugal weren’t, so they could do nothing but stick to that. Then, when they started talking compromise, the Troika appeared to give them rope to hang themselves with, and then got all pissy when Syriza said they’d have to put it to a referendum. The Greek government are in an impossible position and the EU (for which, in this context, read “Germany”) have been acting like vindictive twats.

You had it right before – they really need to just rip the band-aid off and leave the Euro and default on their loans. Mass default has been done before with relatively little long term damage (is it Argentina I’m thinking of?).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 16:21 
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Oh yeah, sure. Don't worry, I haven't changed any of my views on that score; clearly the options are either massive write-down or default/Euro exit/devaluation. Obviously. :)

I'm just thinking the execution/handling isn't all that it could've been, to say the least - not exactly what you'd call professional, and more importantly, entirely muddled in terms of objectives/direction.

Edit - yeah, Argentina has variously defaulted and, whilst the economy grew significantly a few years back post the last big default (2001?) they're now mired again and probably going to default again. But, this is likely due to appalling ongoing standards of governance and its politics rather than the last default per se.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:32 
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Naz Shah has a pop in the Commons

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 17:32 
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Gah. Not often I find myself in full agreement with a Labour MP, but this is one such occasion... The phrase 'archetypal swivel eyed loon' springs to mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:07 
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Gogmagog

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Cavey wrote:
Gah. Not often I find myself in full agreement with a Labour MP, but this is one such occasion... The phrase 'archetypal swivel eyed loon' springs to mind.


His big posters are still up around Bradford. And his "legal challenge" to the result never materialised. His behaviour was terrible in the election, good luck, London...

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