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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:04 
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I actually think that saving the building and ensuring it can still be used for its intended function would be money well spent. Be cynical about politicians, but Parliament as an institution matters, and the building symbolises this (although the Victorian Gothic can get a bit boring after a while).


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:10 

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:11 
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In some respects I think its right that long term benefit claimants do some sort of work

Depressingly you just know this scheme will be run by pencil pushers, who are obsessed with volume not quality.

Also it will be abused by employers who will just use it for free labour doing repetitive work with no real skills to be learnt.

The people doing this should be paid something as well, by the employers. maybe £1 or £2 an hour. This is not saving the tax payer anything, just letting the government twist the figures, so I don't see why employers should get totally free labour.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:42 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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I don't think private companies should be able to use benefit claimants for cheap labour.
Long term claimants doing work for the community and local charities if they can isn't a bad thing though.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:58 
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Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:01 
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The makers of Benefits Street wanted to do a show in Birkenhead. The locals basically told them to Fuck right off and never come back. Kinda made me proud


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:03 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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markg wrote:
Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


Absolutely agree :)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:43 
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markg wrote:
Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


So very much :this:


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:48 
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Trooper wrote:
markg wrote:
Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


Absolutely agree :)


I agree, as well.

My experience of being on the rock and roll was incredibly dispiriting. And the stigma was even worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:18 
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markg wrote:
Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:33 
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Curiosity wrote:
markg wrote:
Surely the main point is that most benefit claimants are genuine and the Tories only have widespread support for their policies because most people's perceptions (as demonstrated by countless surveys) are way out of whack with the reality of the situation. Whole sections of society have been dehumanised by the right wing press and by shite like Benefits Street on the telly which basically stigmatises anyone who lives on a council estate.

They're starting filming another one of these shitty types of shows now where a whole area of Blackpool (Mereside) will no doubt be portrayed as being full of scroungers when the reality of the situation is that most of the residents are just ordinary working people. The whole thing is fucking shameful. Realistically having to support a few wasters is the cost of any benefits system which doesn't humiliate the majority of genuine claimants.


Marks for President!

6/10, could do better.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:44 
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Perhaps surprising, but I actually broadly agree with Mark's sentiments here, although I do think there is a separate, but related issue wrt. to people "on the sick" (comparing historical head counts with those of the last 15-20 years). Clearly though, the vast majority of those claiming benefits would much rather be working/productive, whatever BS Channel 4 or hard line Tories would have us believe.

For me, it is imperative that as a collective, we simply MUST do something about it; all stakeholders in this country of ours need to contribute, one way or another. We don't want to be like Spain and other countries where 25% unemployment (and 60% youth unemployment) is somehow acceptable; once you've reached those sort of numbers, one has to understand that 'society' itself has demonstrably failed, and it's time to start again?

What most Tories seem to miss, however, is that such a (genuine) programme is a massive money LOSER - it COSTS money, it doesn't save it. But it is money bloody well spent! I honestly think IDS' heart is vaguely in the right place, but financial circumstances/politics have dictated the rug being well and truly pulled. It just isn't possible to achieve these objectives AND save money? What we end up with is a grotesque, dehumanising persecution of people who already have nothing.

Opening a can of worms perhaps, I do honestly think the mass immigration of Eastern Europeans HAS led to a situation whereby many low-paid jobs are have been taken which could've been done by our own unemployed? (and I say that as someone of Eastern European descent; xenophobic/racist/UKIP supporter I am not, but let's face empirical fact?) Perhaps if there was some compulsion on the part of the fit and well unemployed to take such jobs (stick) BUT with financial help, redress, support and genuine incentive from government (carrot), the problem may sort itself out despite necessarily open borders which we ourselves benefit from? There again, this smacks of the 'British jobs for British workers' line which is undesirable - there is not a quick and easy fix, else it'd been done by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:31 
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Cavey wrote:
What most Tories seem to miss, however, is that such a (genuine) programme is a massive money LOSER - it COSTS money, it doesn't save it. But it is money bloody well spent!

What would the money be spent on, though? With all the good will in the world, more and more jobs are being done by robots or computers, and that's going to continue to increase (along with the population, who are going to want a job).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:42 
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In an ideal world things would keep progressing the way they were until greed became so utterly rampant. People should be earning more for working less. Or we could just keep on down the road of making people work longer hours for lower wages and creating a new handful of squillionnaires because that is clearly a plan for long term stability.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:55 
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Cavey wrote:
Opening a can of worms perhaps, I do honestly think the mass immigration of Eastern Europeans HAS led to a situation whereby many low-paid jobs are have been taken which could've been done by our own unemployed? (and I say that as someone of Eastern European descent; xenophobic/racist/UKIP supporter I am not, but let's face empirical fact?) Perhaps if there was some compulsion on the part of the fit and well unemployed to take such jobs (stick) BUT with financial help, redress, support and genuine incentive from government (carrot), the problem may sort itself out despite necessarily open borders which we ourselves benefit from? There again, this smacks of the 'British jobs for British workers' line which is undesirable - there is not a quick and easy fix, else it'd been done by now.

Not fair to weigh in on this one point usually, perhaps, but as I'm agreeing it's a bit less wanky. There was a More or Less episode recently looking into the numbers around immigration which found exactly that. Yes, adding people to a country increases GDP (of course it does) and yes it adds people who want to work. But the competition for low-paid jobs does disadvantage those who are competing for those jobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:24 
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Never thought I'd be cheering the Tories winning a by-election!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 13:11 
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markg wrote:
In an ideal world things would keep progressing the way they were until greed became so utterly rampant. People should be earning more for working less. Or we could just keep on down the road of making people work longer hours for lower wages and creating a new handful of squillionnaires because that is clearly a plan for long term stability.


Well that's the issue, isn't it. Everything is a race to the bottom. Whenever someone's willing to work for a pittance to do a job, regardless if they're native or immigrant, the market value of that worker drops. Which means jobs going to those people who will work for less and less money each and every time. The minimum wage should be a brake on that, but then you come up with great ideas like zero-hour contracts to ensure that you're absolutely not paying a penny more than you have to in order to get the work done. Unskilled/semi-skilled labour hasn't been more undervalued since the building of the pyramids, and the only way to do something about it is to insist on some sort of living wage. And all the major parties are too scared of upsetting the large businesses that make use of so much of that labour (particularly retail) to make a step in that direction.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 13:14 
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Grim... wrote:
Cavey wrote:
What most Tories seem to miss, however, is that such a (genuine) programme is a massive money LOSER - it COSTS money, it doesn't save it. But it is money bloody well spent!

What would the money be spent on, though? With all the good will in the world, more and more jobs are being done by robots or computers, and that's going to continue to increase (along with the population, who are going to want a job).


That's true to an extent of course, but there's so much stuff that needs doing and no-one is doing it. I'm not talking about picking up chewing gum/dog turds off the street, but meaningful things like our millions of lonely elderly people, housing stock being left to fall apart, help in hospitals and elsewhere, the voluntary sector etc. People need to feel valued and they need a function. Sitting at home totally dejected, depressed, watching daytime tv, chasing an ever-diminishing pool of 'basic' jobs with fierce competition from here and abroad isn't doing them - or the rest of us - any good. Time for some radical new thinking? (But with the expectation this will cost us more, not less, but we'll surely be living in a better, more equitable, fairer world).

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 13:15 
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JBR wrote:
Not fair to weigh in on this one point usually, perhaps, but as I'm agreeing it's a bit less wanky. There was a More or Less episode recently looking into the numbers around immigration which found exactly that. Yes, adding people to a country increases GDP (of course it does) and yes it adds people who want to work. But the competition for low-paid jobs does disadvantage those who are competing for those jobs.


Wanky? No, not at all, glad to hear from you. :)

I agree on all fronts; you're right.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 14:38 
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Cras wrote:
Well that's the issue, isn't it. Everything is a race to the bottom. Whenever someone's willing to work for a pittance to do a job, regardless if they're native or immigrant, the market value of that worker drops. Which means jobs going to those people who will work for less and less money each and every time.

Exactly. I mean, where I live in the southern parts, there's no practical difference between 'Eastern Europeans' (the definition of whom is rather nebulous) 'taking' low-paid jobs from locals than if those jobs go to people from generally poorer areas of the country like Tyneside or Greater Manchester who've relocated. Or people who live with family members or in social housing and need less money for housing costs. Or under-21s, apprentices, etc, who don't get the full minimum wage. The list is endless. Migrants are just a more convenient scapegoat than others. TBH, I'd be far more concerned about the rise in unpaid forced workfare, as that is taking away the bottom rung of the employment ladder and very harmful for equality of opportunity,amongst other issues.

I have a lot of sympathy and respect for 'Eastern Europeans', incidentally. (My own girlfriend counts herself as Eastern European to some extent.) Many I've known have improved their own personal situations while being here in the way they couldn't in their own countries, or not to the same amount. If anything the 'Eastern Europeans' often are stuck in employment they are over-qualified for rather than seeking bottom-end wages; many I've met had/have postgraduate qualifications that they can't use, and find having an obviously foreign name a real red flag to employers when they try and apply for employment, as if employers only see worthy of using them for low-wage menial jobs. One Polish girl I've known for years has said that she wishes she could Anglicise her name for job applications to greatly improve the chance of an interview! They're certainly not some of privileged group that always gets first in the employment queue.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 15:12 
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No-one is 'scapegoating' Eastern Europeans, or indeed blaming them in any way for wanting to better themselves by coming to the UK and taking work - any work.

It simply cannot be denied, though, that in so doing they have occupied (many) jobs which could, theoretically, be done by British unemployed people. I'm sorry, but that's just plain fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:01 

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:48 
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Cobracure wrote:
Considering leaving Blighty if Scotland go independant and the Conservative Empire get partial or total control in 2015.
Even if we don't go independent we'll probably no stop that if it's on the cards. http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour ... -scotland/

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:53 
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Wullie wrote:
Cobracure wrote:
Considering leaving Blighty if Scotland go independant and the Conservative Empire get partial or total control in 2015.
Even if we don't go independent we'll probably no stop that if it's on the cards. http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour ... -scotland/


Of course, Stu fits the data around his initial assumption, rather than around the more obvious question of "What would that do in the current political climate?"

The answer to that question was, and likely is, make a majority Conservative government.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 15:47 
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Trouble in UKIP

Quote:
"... he felt he was being driven out by local members, including a couple based in nearby Glastonbury who practise alternative healing inspired and guided by angels...Baynes, a teacher who stood at the last general election for Ukip, said: "I do think if someone is saying you are in touch with the angelic realms I have to call into question their judgment.

"Everyone's got their different beliefs. It's not for me to belittle anyone's beliefs. People have different views. But if Ukip is trying to shake off this fruitcake image thing, we're not doing a good job of it."

"


Wonderfully understated.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 15:57 
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I just can't really take UKIP seriously. Perhaps I should, but I just can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:00 
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This is pretty much the first thing I have heard about them since the European elections. I'm not at all convinced they are going to be as much of a factor in things as people were making out.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:04 
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markg wrote:
This is pretty much the first thing I have heard about them since the European elections. I'm not at all convinced they are going to be as much of a factor in things as people were making out.


I hope you're right, but there again it's the month or two leading up to an election that's obviously key (same goes for Scottish Referendum); that's when most ordinary people are actually going to start thinking about stuff and their voting intentions. UKIP are bound to be very vocal and visible at such times (unfortunately), but here's hoping for a few more "gay floods" type nutjob stories to undermine their credibility further.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:12 
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I assume that since they got all those Euro seats they have enacted some pretty strong legislation by now, and we're all living in a right wing utopia.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:13 
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Curiosity wrote:
I assume that since they got all those Euro seats they have enacted some pretty strong legislation by now, and we're all living in a right wing utopia.


Indeed. Here are my shoes mate, thanks. I'll be back in ten.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:14 
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Cavey wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
I assume that since they got all those Euro seats they have enacted some pretty strong legislation by now, and we're all living in a right wing utopia.


Indeed. Here are my shoes mate, thanks. I'll be back in ten.


*doffs cap*

*pisses in shoes*

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 16:15 
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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 15:34 
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George Galloway will say anything to get some publicity, won't he?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 18:08 
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Yeah, pretty much.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:19 
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MaliA wrote:
George Galloway will say anything to get some publicity, won't he?


Now Big Brother is a thing of the past he is a bit stuck for publicity.

Who votes for an arsehole like that?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:43 
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asfish wrote:
MaliA wrote:
George Galloway will say anything to get some publicity, won't he?


Now Big Brother is a thing of the past he is a bit stuck for publicity.

Who votes for an arsehole like that?

Bradford, clearly.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 14:28 
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I'm really not properly understanding why the UK et al doesn't march straight back Iraq and sort out ISIS. Syria can sweep in form the other side and do the same. It's terrible what ISIS are doing, and countries shouldn't stand by and watch.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 16:16 
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MaliA wrote:
I'm really not properly understanding why the UK et al doesn't march straight back Iraq and sort out ISIS. Syria can sweep in form the other side and do the same. It's terrible what ISIS are doing, and countries shouldn't stand by and watch.


Is it because we never just marched straight in in the first place, rather the Americans marched in taking the lead and then we then showed up afterwards?

We ain't going to go matching back in before the Americans do and they ain't going in anytime soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 16:16 
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MaliA wrote:
I'm really not properly understanding why the UK et al doesn't march straight back Iraq and sort out ISIS. Syria can sweep in form the other side and do the same. It's terrible what ISIS are doing, and countries shouldn't stand by and watch.


Is it because we never just marched straight in in the first place, rather the Americans marched in taking the lead and then we then showed up afterwards?

We ain't going to go matching back in before the Americans do and they ain't going in anytime soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 0:58 
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Saturnalian wrote:
MaliA wrote:
I'm really not properly understanding why the UK et al doesn't march straight back Iraq and sort out ISIS. Syria can sweep in form the other side and do the same. It's terrible what ISIS are doing, and countries shouldn't stand by and watch.


Is it because we never just marched straight in in the first place, rather the Americans marched in taking the lead and then we then showed up afterwards?

We ain't going to go matching back in before the Americans do and they ain't going in anytime soon.


And going in and committing to land wars in the Middle East almost always ends well.

Unfortunately, there's probably no 'right' answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:05 
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Quote:
I'm really not properly understanding why the UK et al doesn't march straight back Iraq and sort out ISIS. Syria can sweep in form the other side and do the same. It's terrible what ISIS are doing, and countries shouldn't stand by and watch.


Doubt they will bother for a while as its not going to wash with a lot of the public

They kicked out Saddam Hussein on mostly trumped up charges of chemical weapons.

He was a murdering manic but ironically there was more order in the country when he was there

Then we go in there with the US and "liberate" the place and install a government at a cost of billions

Couple of years later we have a group just as insane and murderous as Saddam trying to take over, and if you get rid of them another bunch of murdering nutters will pop up.

There are plenty of oil rich states surrounding Iraq so let them pay for it this time.

I would prefer my government spend its billions on roads and maybe sorting out the shit primary school I will be forced to send my son to in 3 years time, than fighting wars for other countries.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 18:19 
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Because Archer would kill everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:45 
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Todays question is who the fuck does Shaun Wright think he is?

His PC polices allowed Pakistani men to rape white girls unheeded just in case it was racist and investigating it might offend somebody. Its just unbelievable that a cunt like this should be allowed to make any decisions on anything full stop.

The prick should be in prison, never mind just been asked to resign

Fuck me he must have thicker skin that a Rhino.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:56 
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Totally agree mate; really does make you wonder just what it would take to get these people to "do the honourable thing"? Like, 1400 kids' lives ruined and everyone terrified to do anything about it for fear of being labelled "racist"...? And this guy's still drawing his salary and expenses, which the rest of us (taxpayers) have to continue to fork out for?

I know what I'd do with the fuckers, let me tell you. And him, for that matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:09 
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Its the same everywhere in all these organisations.

A good mate of mine has just won custody of his kids from his wife after spending £200,000 or more

A High court judge has said she is mentally unsound and she gets 3 hours access every 2 weeks supervised .

He had a huge battle with social services and the Police who had implemented a "mother is always right" policy after their respective incompetence led to 3 domestic violence cases end in murder.

Straight away he was guilty of beating his kids and later of raping his wife just because she said so, she was backed up by shameful greedy barristers all paid for by the tax payer.

Both these charges have been found to be false.

In the end his wife helped him out, she said in front of the judge that the Police coached her and the kids to try and make the rape case stick. Sadly he is a bit stuck in taking action against the Police as he wife has been defined as unsound so she won't be a good key witness in any litigation.

None of these people have any need to be accountable as they have insurance cover in the case of social services or its just covered in in the case of the Police


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:46 
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What can you say?
For me, a good deal of this and other stuff like it comes back to the unaccountability (and all-round uselessness) of the public sector - but these views don't go down too well around here.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:33 
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Cavey wrote:
What can you say?
For me, a good deal of this and other stuff like it comes back to the unaccountability (and all-round uselessness) of the public sector - but these views don't go down too well around here.

Sigh :)

It's not like private sector supremos haven't fucked up and then walked off with massive payoffs or anything.

Anyway, agree on the original premise that he really should resign. Guy's got some serious brass neck.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:17 
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:32 
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Interesting. Tory in a safe seat has defected to UKIP and called a by-election.

I would find it hilarious if they split the vote and let Labour in.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 14:38 
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It's good that he's actually resigned. Yes, I know that according to the constitutional theory we elect a person and not a party, but I've always felt it's the public's right to decide if they want their MP to remain representing them after switching sides.


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