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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 17:54 
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Curiosity wrote:
I think Corbyn's political goals are far less alienating than his complete and utter incompetence. I'd be able to vote for someone on a leftist platform, but only if they proved themselves capable at running things.

Corbyn is to the left of me (though he's not some raging insanity / his politics would be considered normal in, say, Norway), but I couldn't vote for him simply because he's completely useless at running his party.

Well, Corbyn wouldn't be in the Labour Party in Norway; he'd be in the Socialist Left Party or something else. ;) I wouldn't assume that the Nordic/Scandinavian Labour parties are all that left-wing. In fact, they're more New Labourish than you think, and are experiencing similar issues and problems in terms of declining popularity.

The domestic policies of Corbyn aren't too extreme, if fact they're pretty unexciting. Basically Milibandish stuff with more spending. That's even when or if you can find any policies. It's the lack of ideas or innovation that is shocking.

The non-domestic stuff – well, leaving the EU has always been a goal of the British far-left, and Corbyn has certainly delivered that to them...


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:13 
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JBR wrote:
I won't bore you with my finances, but taking a year off taught me to live on less, and that has stuck so far. Thanks to gorgeous George threatening to take away pension tax breaks, I now whack extra into the pension, pay little income tax (sorry, NHS) and the bit of my salary I do get just tops up the cash I live off. I am an aberration.


Maternity leave taught me to live off pennies. Meeting Gaz taught me how to spend money I don't have. Now have to find a sensible middle ground :DD

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:20 
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There's a reason why "You'll never defeat me Anakin! I hold the sensible middle ground!" isn't a famous Star Wars prequels quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 13:31 
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Cras wrote:
There's a reason why "You'll never defeat me Anakin! I hold the sensible middle ground!" isn't a famous Star Wars prequels quote.

Is that because there's no sensible ground, middle or otherwise, in a lava field?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 15:56 
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Isn't that lovely?

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Shots Fired near Houses of Parliament, reports of explosion or crashing sounds too.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 14:23 
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Douglas Carswell is leaving UKIP for a solo career citing 'artistic differences'.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 22:30 
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Labour will vote against any final Brexit deal unless it delivers the “exact same benefits” as the UK enjoys currently within the European Union, Jeremy Corbyn says.

Fucking hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 23:04 

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What a great idea to come out and announce such a plan not long after your party voted against an amendment that would mean you legally get a vote on the deal - considering all they have right now is a "promise". Let's see how that works out for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:52 
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I reckon Sir Keir Stamner and others (eg Hilary Benn, Sadiq Khan) are starting to realise that if/once (delete according to pessimistic taste) Brexit turns the economy sour, Labour need to be in a position to disassociate themselves from it all and take the initiative, but are currently being held back by the leadership.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:57 
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MaliA wrote:

:facepalm: :belm: :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:59 
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It's the New Politics in action.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:14 
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Kern wrote:
I reckon Sir Keir Stamner and others (eg Hilary Benn, Sadiq Khan) are starting to realise that if/once (delete according to pessimistic taste) Brexit turns the economy sour, Labour need to be in a position to disassociate themselves from it all and take the initiative, but are currently being held back by the leadership.


Starmer's distaste for Corbyn is very obvious, but he's trying to balance it out by being on the front bench and influencing, rather than taking a back seat and waiting for the inevitable carnage. He's clearly a smart chap, though he does sometimes do odd things that make me wonder, but then who amongst us doesn't?

No idea whether this tactic will work for him or not, but at least he's said he is committed to winning elections, unlike the current leader.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:19 
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Heh, that's at least the second time I've got his name wrong. I'll just stick to 'Sir Keir' in future.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 22:31 
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"Here, drink these fifteen pints.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 13:53 
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GazChap wrote:


:D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 15:48 
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Cavey wrote:

A cunt like you would find Hard Brexit hilarious, shouldn't have thought otherwise.


MOD EDIT - This post has earned Hero a two week forum vacation.


Last edited by Cras on Tue Mar 28, 2017 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 19:29 
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Man, I want a vacation.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 19:51 
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Government rules out privatising Channel 4, according to the Graun, but they might ask it to move out of London.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 22:16 
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MrChris wrote:
Man, I want a vacation.


I can't promise calling me a cunt will help in this matter, but I'll see what I can do. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 22:16 
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A50 starts now.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 22:22 
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Cavey wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Man, I want a vacation.


I can't promise calling me a cunt will help in this matter, but I'll see what I can do. :D


I could probably help out if needed

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 22:29 
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Cras wrote:

I could probably help out if needed


Title

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:07 
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Cavey wrote:
A50 starts now.


Why haven't they called a bank holiday for us to celebrate with street parties and parades and a flypast?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:18 
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Kern wrote:
Cavey wrote:
A50 starts now.


Why haven't they called a bank holiday for us to celebrate with street parties and parades and a flypast?

Yes, didn't Nigel Farage call this our Independence Day?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:23 
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He wanted 23 June. I agree: more likely to be sunny.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:25 
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The photo of Mrs May signing the letter looks like she's writing in the guest book of an Oxfordshire B&B. At least she didn't pick it up and gormlessly show it to the cameras.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:14 
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Cavey wrote:
A50 starts now.

Traffic is always bad around Mere in the morning.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:15 
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The signpost to 'Mere local services' amused me when I was eight. It still does now.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:50 
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Kern wrote:
The photo of Mrs May signing the letter looks like she's writing in the guest book of an Oxfordshire B&B. At least she didn't pick it up and gormlessly show it to the cameras.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was specifically told NOT to do that, lest it lead to a @MayDraws twitter account or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:59 
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I'm glad the foreign secretary, the exit secretary, the international business secretary, and all the rest of her cabinet were pictured behind her witnessing the moment of their triumph.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:01 
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Kern wrote:
He wanted 23 June. I agree: more likely to be sunny.


Totally should have delayed it and done it on 4th July, just to fuck with the Americans.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:31 
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To be fair the A50 has been murder of late. Knutsford was at a standstill for much of last week. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:21 
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Latest YouGov poll data: Labour voters want May as PM.... :D

Quote:
This week's YouGov/Times voting intention figures see the Conservatives on 43% (from 41% last week) and Labour remaining on 25%, giving the Tories an 18 point lead.


Quote:
In bad news for Jeremy Corbyn, the proportion of people who think he would make a better Prime Minister than Theresa May hits its lowest level ever this week, at 13%. With 51% of Brits believing the Conservative leader to be a superior choice, May's 38 point lead is also the highest it has ever been.

Worse still for Labour, this week is the first week that 2015 Labour voters have been more likely to pick Theresa May as the best Prime Minister of the pair, with 29% preferring May and 27% preferring Corbyn.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/vo ... 25-26-27-/

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:42 
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That's not strictly true.

They'd rather have her than Corbyn (which is just massively, massively damning and I can't imagine that having ever happened before).

I'm fairly sure that the vast majority of them would prefer someone else entirely :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:24 
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:D

Well, yes, but as unbelievable as it sounds in the latter case, the only two people in any likely position to be PM are the respective leaders of the Conservative Party and Labour Party.... but irrespective though and as you yourself observe, man alive, that's one helluva poll finding. At this rate, Corbyn's missus will probably be voting Tory. Corbyn is a total, total disaster. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:27 
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Heh, yeah. But at least he's only a disaster for his own party and not the whole fucking country like the Tories.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:31 
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Heh. Well, time will tell on that one, but right now May is 38 points ahead of Corbyn in the polls (which is an absurd lead) and her Party 20-odd points clear, so the public at large seem to be giving unprecedented approval levels so far. (As do the markets as well, as previously noted. The FTSE250 is actually up on today of all days, and at near historic highs)

Labour need to really, really hope that May doesn't decide to try for an early election to seal hers, and the Brexit mandate - because if she does, electoral annihilation awaits on an as yet unseen scale of devastation.

If it were me, that's exactly what I would do; shame to let Corbyn go to waste, and a larger outright parliamentary majority is always handy. Go for the Flawless Victory > Fatality in MK parlance. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:36 
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Time will indeed tell. But I'm quite sure that if the economy went completely down the toilet next week you would still be wittering on about Jeremy fucking Corbyn and Labour every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:39 
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Well, can you *honestly* blame me? It's just fecking hilarious, sorry. :D

But anyway, the economy is very much not going down the toilet thank goodness; business is booming right now so I'm in jovial spirits.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:42 
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Time has told. They even made a film about it "I, Daniel Blake".


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:42 
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markg wrote:
Time will indeed tell. But I'm quite sure that if the economy went completely down the toilet next week you would still be wittering on about Jeremy fucking Corbyn and Labour every day.


In fairness, I would. I expect the government to be strong enough to stand up to critiscm and be abLe to say "No, we're doing X because Y", or if that isn't possible, an opposition to hold them to account.

Somewhat bizarrely, we currently have neither, and a PM showing herself to be weaker everyday, making bad decisions and a leader of the opposition so ineffably hopeless he falls further behind.

It's a source of great frustration to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:49 
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Cavey wrote:
Well, can you *honestly* blame me? It's just fecking hilarious, sorry. :D

But anyway, the economy is very much not going down the toilet thank goodness; business is booming right now so I'm in jovial spirits.


Do you want to help fund arts events?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:53 
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MaliA wrote:
In fairness, I would. I expect the government to be strong enough to stand up to critiscm and be abLe to say "No, we're doing X because Y", or if that isn't possible, an opposition to hold them to account.

Somewhat bizarrely, we currently have neither, and a PM showing herself to be weaker everyday, making bad decisions and a leader of the opposition so ineffably hopeless he falls further behind.

It's a source of great frustration to me.


Aye. Regardless of the party in power, without a strong opposition the quality of governance suffers.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 13:59 
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Ordinarily I would agree, Kern, but I honestly believe that the quality of Labour's input, as evidenced by clear (disastrous) outcomes when in power, time and again, tends to suggest that we'd all be better off with nothing at all?

I've previously said that I would love to see a sensible, worthwhile opposition, as formed from a wide spectrum of genuinely able people who have wide experience of real life outside of Parliament and politics generally, especially in matters of business and genuine productive wealth creation. Clearly, however, that's never going to be Labour, most especially not now with the SEL contingent in tow, Momentum, UNITE and all the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:00 
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I think there should a "House of People with common sense" instead of a House of Lords.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:03 
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MaliA wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Well, can you *honestly* blame me? It's just fecking hilarious, sorry. :D

But anyway, the economy is very much not going down the toilet thank goodness; business is booming right now so I'm in jovial spirits.


Do you want to help fund arts events?


That's pretty random mate :D
I/we already sponsor all sorts - my little company just bought a whole bunch of school books for a local special school and we donate monthly to the Church, NSPCC, Red Cross, women's welfare charities, food bank and all the rest, and I also sit on the local PCC as well. :)

I'm sure I could help though mate if you want to pm me?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:03 
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Grim... wrote:
I think there should a "House of People with common sense" instead of a House of Lords.


I think you'd very much end up with a similar mix, excluding the hereditary peers.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:03 
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We're engaging in this Brexit disaster because May is too scared of the eurosceptic wing of her own party and not at all scared of her opposition. Both May and Corbyn are terribly weak and it's an enormous problem. Government policy is being set by faceless Tory backbenchers.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:04 
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Cavey wrote:
Ordinarily I would agree, Kern, but I honestly believe that the quality of Labour's input, as evidenced by clear (disastrous) outcomes when in power, time and again, tends to suggest that we'd all be better off with nothing at all?


One of the common things I've read about the prime ministership is how much its holders dread PMQs. Supermac is said to have been sick at the thought of facing the Commons. At other levels, junior ministers need to be careful to avoid laying elephant traps, and with playful use of procedure even the most technical vote on rabbit feed can become a potential embarrassment for the government of the day. In other words, it's about doing your job to both oppose and to present yourself as an alternative government.

Quote:
I've previously said that I would love to see a sensible, worthwhile opposition, as formed from a wide spectrum of genuinely able people who have wide experience of real life outside of Parliament and politics generally, especially in matters of business and genuine productive wealth creation. Clearly, however, that's never going to be Labour, most especially not now with the SEL contingent in tow, Momentum, UNITE and all the rest.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 14:04 
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Grim... wrote:
I think there should a "House of People with common sense" instead of a House of Lords.


I pretty much agree with you!
Selection would, as ever, be difficult but I'm sure most here would have a fairly sensible definition.
Doubt I'd get in

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