Be Excellent To Each Other

All emergency wards have been staffed above normal levels during the strikes, by actual consultants. So a better service is given. The doctors are categorically not in it for the money, as most can make far more elsewhere. The only part about money is not to want to reduce the money paid to emergency services, whilst increasing their hours.

Every independent review has shown that Hunt is refusing to compromise and is going against the best interests of the NHS. Even his own party members have raised motions to get him to reconsider, and the one person who backed his contract categorically stated that it should not be imposed against their will.

So on the one hand you have the entirety of the NHS, including those who are not affected by the changes. You also have all the medical associations and the vast majority of senior healthcare professionals, as well as MPs across all parties.

But apparently all of them are lying and Jeremy Hunt is the poor little underdog telling the truth? Even with the backing of the majority of the media, public support is in favour of the doctors.

But sure, fall for his every word. It's easier that way.

Ted Cruz has quit. Trump v Clinton is almost certainly going to be a thing.

@Curio

Yup that's me man, I fall for Jeremy Hunt's every word. It's gotta be better than the doctor's unions propaganda and bullshit after all; someone needs to make a stand against paying ever spiralling wage costs from the public purse. (And as I showed you from that 2006 link you, ahem, chose not to comment on, that someone ain't ever gonna be Labour, eh. +31% in one year, six figure salaries that we've now paid in perpituity 10 years and counting, in times when y'know, we totally could not afford to do so for reasons of their other catastrophic mismanagement of the economy, spending and banking regulation. Still, amazingly enough, the BMA thought their members were worth all that extra money - so that's a nice objective clarification in support of your case, with no nasty arguments either. 'Crass appeasement and utter capitulation' in action, huh. Lol)

Still, "it's not fair" etc etc yada yada

This is going to be hellish.

Speaking of which, I felt it was a bit off colour for Obama to make a joke about Guantanamo Bay recently.

Hmmm...

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Is there a general trend if politicians these recent years to rise further to the fore when they are further from centre than their (recent) predecessors, do you think? Of do we just have a particularly rich assortment of nasty idiots, morons and buffoons on the political scene recently? I know personality politics has always existed, but I can't think of a time in my lifetime when there were so many prominent figures that were all at least a bit odd, and at the worst end of them racist bigots.

I think it's a mixture of factors:

There's been an economic recession whuch is still ongoing (albeit it might be on the up and up l). In times like this people tend to look with more suspicion at "them" and what "they" get compared with their own lot. This particularly affects low paid workers whose jobs are more at threat from immigrant labour. It's pretty easy to jump on this and get a good support going. The vast majority of people vote on stuff that affects them or stuff they perceive to affect them, so jobs and immigration go hand in hand. And the feeling it is "their space"

There's also more coverage of what is going on in the US so we're more aware of it. I think that here in the UK we forget that America is still going through its troubled late adolescent stages. After doing the space race and being King of the Hill for a bit, it gasn't had much to shout of as a country for a while, so smaller things become more important. THe many poorer people feel short changed by what they see as the Establishment and someone who isn't The Establishment can offer a way of getting one back.



I think living in the states cannot be easy for many: employment rights are poor, health care is expensive so might as well not exist for many, outdated ideas from religious ideologies have a lot of weight in the laws, education is expensive, you'll get shot and one can drive a stick shift

A politician is possibly a reflection of the people.

You had lost me until this bit:



This is language that I can understand.

Sometimes I switch it up and type in North Welsh dialects.

When I mentioned one stat in the climate change thread the other day, you ranted about cherry picked data, even though I had made no suggestion it meant anything in the wider picture. Now you're using one pay rise from one year over a decade ago about a group of people who aren't even junior doctors to reason about the junior doctors. That's some good work.

Have some better data courtesy of the Economist:

When you picked the first 3 months of this, an El Nino year, to allude that this somehow substantiated global warming (and in the light of your earlier telling me I needed to go on a stats course), then yes, I did laugh loudly and heartily, Doc, 'some good work indeed'. You make it so easy; in your head you're scoring points or something, whereas more often than not, you're belming mate, sorry. (And I say that as someone who actually thinks you're a good egg, and I myself a self-confessed belm-merchant for much of the time also. The basic difference between you and me, Doc, is that I'm honest and realistic with myself and others about my somewhat finite cerebral powers?)

Let's briefly look at your latest example; you criticise me for providing a link to 2006 - but this was when GPs were awarded their loads-a-money contracts by the then Labour government, with >30% increase in their incomes in the first year alone? No wonder the BMA thought Labour were such nice chaps, not like the nasty old Tories who don't want to pay umpteen overtime for every last hour or whatever, and who aren't signing those kind of blank cheques.

The contrast could not be clearer, and this is the point of course. You seem to think it's some amazing revelation that GPs aren't junior doctors - no shit, Sherlock. There, in a nutshell, is the difference between Labour and the Tories, and it's relevant because this is the last time that Labour 'negotiated' a big step-change in ANY doctors' contract with the NHS, which we can now benchmark, and compare to Hunt's approach. Obviously, duh. (According to your rationale, him doling out a 31% annual pay rise would've been better....)

As for all that other guff (sorry, "better data"), this appears to be about global NHS spending (and their ludicrous mismanagement of spending obscene amounts on temporary staff which in any actual business would've been ringing massive alarm bells etc. - again, all as previously discussed), not even the subject at hand. SoI think you'll find that my data as regarding actual doctors' contracts is considerably more relevant to the points *I* am making; if you want to (yet again) widen the debate to encompass entire NHS budgets and in relation to EU or whatever else then knock yourself out, just don't tell me my far more relevant and on-topic information is invalid. Ta.

I'd have thought that good English was pretty important for a councillor.

He could have a translator, I guess.

I think it would but I dunno.

Wait - distributing anonymous leaflets or distributing Anonymous leaflets?

Good news in Scotland; the Tories have doubled their number of seats to 31 and are now (easily) the main Opposition. Labour are now finally out of the game in Scotland; the Tories have at last turned a corner with their (IMO) incredibly effective and youthful leader, Ruth Davidson. What a lass!

More importantly, though, the SNP have lost ground and no longer have a parliamentary majority, and with it any "claimed mandate" for yet another Neverendum. Oooh dear, another massive setback for Independence, and the trajectory seems even clearer than it has been. The only thing they (remotely) have left is Brexit; if that goes the way I expect it to (i.e. ~55% in favour of IN) - they're screwed for 20+ years, and no amount of 'Eckernomics' or bullshit cherry-picked propaganda will ever change that.

Still, as a Conservative Unionist notwithstanding, I must remind myself not to be too gleeful. If it wasn't for the hapless SNP and their, ahem, tactics (and antics), as culminating in that infamous Miliband in Salmond's top pocket poster that, at a single stroke, did more for the Tory vote than any newspaper headline or other media, we wouldn't have a majority WM Conservative government, as all the polls retrospectively showed. Great timing guys, bless ya.

Planning backed for listed building

Then

fire at listed building

Re: Hunt's weekend working row with the NHS; http://gu.com/p/4tqaz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet



Seems pretty reasonable to me.

yeah, but *look a blue car*

'For now' out of the game, I'd say - never say never, after all. And certainly there will be those who spin it as 'no mandate', and it's arguable, but given that the SNP have increased their number of seats (and have steadily done so since 2003 - they lost some from 99-03), they can claim success. Perhaps wiser to wait for next time when, if the trend continues, they'll be the first party to ever have a majority. In an election system that seems to be setup to make that unlikely.

Um, the SNP did have a majority, in the last parliament.
They just lost said majority.

SNP gained 1.1% over what they had last time - but can't say I'm surprised they haven't got a majority. I still don't understand how they managed it last time. SNP is still far ahead of Labour and the Tories, which is always nice. And Greens! So happy Greens got so much.

The SNP: specialists in Pyrrhic victories.

Various 'meltdowns' occurring I see; not everyone is as chuffed it would seem.

I suppose I should mention the others too?
Lib Dems - projected to win pretty much no seats, ended up with 5... They insist this is the start of their "come back"... Despite also winning 5 in 2011. Okay then.
RISE - lol.
UKIP - did I see on the news they thought they'd get a 'break through' in Scotland? Not with a blubbering idiot like Coburn they wouldn't. And... Oh look, they didn't.

Duh - I thought they must have, but from the chart on here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament they didn't look to have one at the election. And they'd lost it before this one, thanks to a death and it being marginal. My only defence is that I read the it as showing seats, rather than %. Support is down for the SNP! Trend reversed! I still suspect they can wait and see on the subject of another referendum, rather than it being dead. And their independence would be good for England to work out if we really are a majority conservative country, as current voting patterns suggest, or whether it would force change.

Another embarrassing Tory u-turn. http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... -academies

See now - you can't hold it against a political party if they realise an idea is bad and throw it out. This shit needs to happen all the fucking time.

"Here's an idea! What do you think?"
"Hmm, let's look into it."
[a month later]
"So there's a couple of positives, but a lot of negatives. You shouldn't do your idea."
"K, thanks!"

Wouldn't that be great?

Indeed.

There needs to be more humour in your jokes, reckon

It wasn't a joke. It was irony.

Given the u-turns on so many flagship policies, Corbyn really should be asking If Cameron would like him to just come over and see which of the other Tory policies need shelving!

Between the Dubs Amendment and the Academies this week, plus the potential reopening of negotiations with the doctors, it's been an unusually effective week for the opposition!

I agree that in isolation, a U-turn isn't the end of a world, but it does start to look like you are out of touch with the public and/or reality if you start doing a lot of them in short succession. Even if the u-turns themselves are a positive.

I very much hope the government will take a u-turn on their assault on the NHS, but I don't know if they will or not.

Instead of announcing policies and then u-turning when the public shouts them down, why not hold consultations and, I dunno, float ideas and see what public opinion thinks? They way they are currently doing it seems arrogant and authoritarian. And it makes them look foolish, albeit in a "we are listening" sort of way.

I seriously doubt the opposition had anything to do with it; Labour are a shambolic, ineffectual laughing stock (even more so than usual last week...). The court of public opinion was surely the driver here.

At the end of the day, as Grim... Has said, people can't have it both ways. If the Tories u turn rather than implement a bad policy out of vanity, intransigence or pride, this is a GOOD thing. Pity Gordon Brown didn't do this more often (indeed ever), but then, at least the Tories are political grown ups huh.

So, Corbyn raises the issue in Parliament, and uses all six of his questions in PMQs for two weeks running, despite others telling him to forget it and go for more 'easy hits'. He doesn't, instead sticking to his guns and making it clear to all that this is poor policy. He's the one continually raising it in the court of public opinion.

The following week the government changes its mind. Of course it had something to do with Corbyn!

I agree that he is struggling to deal with the rebellious elements within the party, and that Ken Livingstone is being a twat. I agree that he might be unelectable, and that he may have to step aside at some point.

He is, though, doing a good job in his role as Leader of the Opposition, in terms of holding the government to account.

It's weird that someone would think that Labour are in total disarray, shot politically, and doomed forever. Labour just won more councils, more individual seats, and more votes in England than the Conservatives did, not to mention Khan thrashing Goldsmith in the London Mayoral Election.

If Labour are doing so terribly, how come the Tories lost to them in these local elections?

Guffaw.

Indeed. Believe me, I am doing just that.

/Clarkson smug grin

@Curio
I'm on a train right now. It's suffering a technical fault, apparently, we're gonna change trains etc., massive ballache. But, your indefatigable clutching at straws has, as ever, cheered me up mate. Your thinking Labour is effective and Corbyn good at holding the government to account, as opposed to them even pausing to stop laughing at him and his bizarre colleagues, thanking their incredible good fortune in disbelief, is actually endearing.

Good for you, son.

Good to see that Goldsmith's Trump-esque campaign has failed.

The reason I am laughing is because a few months ago you were saying Labour's u-turn over backing Osborne's deficit reduction plan showed weak leadership, whereas when the Tories do it you say they listened to public opinion. You can't have it both ways.

Also, Labour won the overall vote share in these local elections, as well as likely the London mayoralty. With also two by-election wins since the GE, it doesn't look like a party in disarray, more one just finding their feet still very early on in an electoral cycle.

Uturns are the best thing. Let's try something! Is it working? No. Let's change it!

That's how normal people do shit

Indeed. It's the hypocrisy and how it's spun when different parties do the same thing that made me chuckle darkly.

There may have been a whole new page there.

Heh. You're comparing this to something so utterly fundamental as Labour's shadow chancellor of the exchequer himself backing Osborne's deficit spending cuts one day, then the very next sputtering "we didn't mean it lol!"? Ah man, you guys crack me up, you really do. "Hypocrisy".... Lol.

I hate to be the one to break it to you bud, but Labour are shit. I get that you're hurting, I'm sorry about that, but you're gonna hurt a whole bunch more before that laughable shower ever get back in government. I reckon that'll see me out.

The only thing I'm hurting about is the poor, sick and disabled people who have been starving and dying on the Tories' watch. I couldn't give a stuff about who is better for the economy (which is a joke anyway as it's almost entirely guesswork), I just want our government to look after those who need it most. But I'm obviously in a minority as English people keep voting Tory - I wish voters were less self-centred, but there you have it. My conscience is clear, at least.

Well said. People struggle to see outside their own back yard most of the time.

The living wage has caused me to cut the gardener's hours.

Sorry guys; time was, I used to get angry at the smug conceitedness of the Left, their honestly believing their moribund politics - which has done so much harm afterall - has a monopoly on righteousness (and by clear implication, Tory = selfish amoral cunt, by default). These days, though, I just laugh; it's no more swivel-eyed than much of Labours antics of late, I guess.

I mean seriously, anyone would think that Labour hadn't presided over the most evil shit imaginable, ranging from hundreds of thousands dead in an illegal war, fought on an entirely false prospectus; or perhaps just the utter ineptitude of failing to regulate the financial sector, costing £375,000,000,000 in printed money alone, diluting the economy and hard earned pound in every pocket. Of course, the proponents of these cretinous morons whine 'everyone else would do the same', 'it was the world wot did it', as against all the evidence and plain facts of the situation, as is the want of the Left. When did they, steeped in conceit and entirely unearned self belief, admit to anything, ever? It's a cult; hard facts are a mere inconvenience to be swatted away. It never even occurs to them, for example, that the whole reason there is hardship among the disadvantaged, through cuts, is precisely because of this gross mismanagement of the economy in the first place; one can argue WHERE to cut, fair enough, but not IF.

For me, the acid test is this; Thatcher, who inherited another Labour meltdown, is reviled amongst the swivel-eyed Left, but lauded, even loved, by a huge chunk of the mainstream. By contrast, Blair is utterly reviled, even and especially by the Left, and Brown is written off as one of the worst prime ministers we've ever had the misfortune to have had. History will always judge in the end, and there can be no doubt here, even at all, how Labour will be judged. So really, I wouldn't be feeling too morally superior and/or castigating moderate Tories who mean well - and get this - are Tories precisely because that is what we think the best outcome is, for by far the most people, not just the toffs or whatever. Someone like me for instance; hardly borne of a silver spoon up my backside.

I don't claim to be a saint, far from it, but you know, true to my Tory roots, I give up a lot of my time (as well as a fair few thousands of pounds every year) to being a church Councillor helping people, I'm training to be a director at our food bank (because rightly or wrongly I reckon I will be able to assertively get more out of local businesses, supermarkets and stakeholders to help). I believe in hands on, get your hands dirty; don't wait for others, the council or who ever to do it; get involved. There IS very much a thing as 'community' as far as I'm concerned.

Many of these very good, civically minded people I work with are small c Conservatives just like me, many of them working and giving up of their time far more tirelessly than I. They're good, good people, and like me, they're Tories because they genuinely believe this gives the best outcomes for as many people as possible, for very good, sound empirical reasons. The thought of these people and those like them being derided as evil by default is somewhat galling, and rather stupid IMO.

There are food banks in rural Cheshire now?

Also, I invite you to claim that Thatcher is loved in Redcar, or Liverpool or Wales or...

I love you, man but you are blinkered beyond belief.

Really? Do you think that?

I think your acid test might be using a faulty batch of litmus paper.

And for what it's worth, I personally don't despise the Tories, but top end politicians in general. Sneering, smug faced public school educated, suit wearing career politicians, like Ed Milliband are every bit as galling to me as Osbourne or Boris. I was so hoping that Corbyn could crack into the establishment, but it increasingly looks like he's not the man for the job