Be Excellent To Each Other

UKIP want their manifesto back.

Well it's worth pointing out, with 2005 they arrested people virtually immediately. Just under 4 weeks later they released without charge (iirc) 21 of 22 of them.

Of course the 2nd part wasn't reported. They'll arrest SOMEONE immediately just to look like they're doing something.

In the Metro's coverage, it says something like 22 arrests, 11 of whom were charged. I'll try and remember to have a look.

No mention of how many were actually convicted, and I'm giving them the leeway here that "charged" means the CPS have accepted the case for prosecution rather than just "the police want to charge".

No mention of what they were charged with either, come to think of it. Assault on an officer after 30+ days of refusal to charge or release, probably. And by assault I mean "swearing at loudly".

This scum of a government and mindless dribble of a populace makes me want to cry.

I want to subscribe to his newsletter. Kind of surprising that he didn't secure the Tory leadership, actually. How good would it be if every Labour rebel followed his lead, triggering by-elections all over?

I'm just glad he's not my MP because then I'd get all confused by having to vote Tory as a matter of conscience.

^{[citation needed]}

(not doubting you - just astonished)
(Also totally going to type that all the time now I copied how to do it )

Yeah, but it'll take a while to get through and Labour may well be out on their ear by then.

Listening to PMQ's on R5 yesterday, I had to turn off in disgust at that cunt Brown. I'm not a Cameron fan (looks like the kind of person who used to wet his bed as a kid) but Browns comments about the Torys knowing nothing about terrorism were disgusting, Despite a campaign from the IRA which was far more professional and frequent than the current lot, I don't remember the Torys locking up anyone with a suspicious accent for 42 days without charge.

Indeed people were pulled for having an Irish accent and being in the wrong place at the wrong time (including my old PE teacher) but you usually spent a couple of hours in the cells until they could verify who you are (and that is indeed what happened to my PE teacher who had been walking back from a party at 5am).

And how many Tory MP's were killed by the IRA? Yet they still never went this far.

Didn't we have this sort of detention in Northern Ireland itself for a while. It really, really didn't go down to well then, if I remember. Plus then we actually had Army patrols coming under fire on the streets and bases getting mortared, so it's not completely comparable to now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3712318.stm

From when it was reviewed. The law lords later said it was unlawful, the government said "Fuck off we're doing it anyway" and to my knowledge it's not got any further.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4100481.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4103987.stm

You'll note it mentions several people being held under said law. To my knowledge all still are.



If a labour one did it, then they would be replaced...

Why don't the labour rebels defect to the Lib Dems or Tories? Sod the by-elections, let's be rid of Brown overnight.

That'd be funny as fuck.

I think they could intern people in Northern Ireland if they wanted to without trial. But like you say, certain areas were more like a warzone and it enabled the police to literally bang people up if they thought something was going to kick off or they had word that someone might be planning something naughty.

Weak willed. You lose your friends and the party machine from behind you. Only a cold hard bastard could do that these days.

+ you risk splitting the vote at the next election and losing your seat.

I didn't know David Davies was a trained killer. Ex-SAS apparently. Not the kind of man to piss off (crosses fingers and waits for both Brown and Cameron to be snapped in two like a twig).

Wow, now I thinking the BBC analysis here is cynical and dickish.

What the hell is going on!?

Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down

(Cheers Dudley I'll read that)

/me tries to remember exact words.

And I'd like to take a minute
Just it right there
And I'll tell you how I became the Prince of a town called Bel Air?

For the last couple or so years I've really been taken by David Davis' stance on matters of basic freedom. I have no idea how this gamble will play-out, but I hope he is not lost to the Commons or politics.


(Of course, I accept that the following might occur were he to become Home Secretary:
DD: Right, abolition of sinister National Identity Register, repeal of internment, and free sweets for kids.
Civil Service: Sorry Minister. The NIR is hotwired to most government services, and would cost £2400billion to remove, far more than its continued operation. The sweets for kids plan is popular and would only cost £500k. £250k if we merge it with the 'sharing is fun' plan).

He did, in series 3.

Ok, I actually just pinched myself. What world am I living in. I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

From this recent BBC article it first says that the Lib Dems won't stand in the by-election as the agree with Davis but then it says this:



WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!

The BNP isn't as stupid as people think.

But they are as racist as people think.

clever evil fucks.

Indeed. If someone really devious gets to head the BNP, and nothing significant chnges in the Tories or Labour, we could be in serious trouble. It's not as unlikely as it may sound.

Kelvin "Loud Mouthed Arsehole" McKenzie just announced on This Week that he may stand in the by-election on a "bang all the darkies up for as long as possible" ticket.

Just to give you an idea about his viewpoint, he just said that he didn't care if it was 420 days.

Oh and if he does stand Rupert Murdoch is going to bankroll him.

A lifetime's supply of saluting for the first policeman to arrest him and throw him in prison without charge for 420 days.

Seriously. In fact, anyone in favour of this bill should be immediately arrested, pilloried, and locked up without trial indefinitely. Let's see how long they stand by their idea then.

I watched it too - I felt like kicking the tele every time that idiot opened his mouth.

David Davies is one of the few Tory MPs who strikes me as a genuinely honest politician, and the way the BBC, ITV and C4 news have all turned this into an 'is Davies bonkers?' story rather than a crucial debate about liberty and justice is too depressing for words.

10 years in power has turned Labour into a monstrous parody of what it once was.

The general media response has been: "Is Davis an honourable politician trying to spark a debate about British freedoms and civil liberties or IS HE A PUBLICITY-SEEKING MEDIA WHORE? You decide! (Even though we've already made the decision for you.)"

Never mind that he has absolutely nothing from a personal standpoint to gain from all this, and, if the right (read: some right-wing extremist fuck) candidate stands against him, he could very well lose his seat.

I think this marks a quite important shift.

Thanks to the BBC's youtube style clips of everything he said I saw what he did unedited. As such I could view the reporting of the event without having to filter for facts.

And the reporting was horrifying. Horrifying.

Very late now, but the Metro said 11 uses of the 28 days rule since 2006, 8 of whom were charged.

Was what, "not in power"?

FTFY

What would be interesting would be whether a) the charges were successfully brought to court and b) whether the suspect was charged with the offence for which they were brought in.

I mention this thanks to the recent Nottingham Uni case, where a student downloaded an Al-Qaeda training manual as part of his politics course from a US Government website and got shopped for it. And his lecturer was pulled in with him and is currently being deported.

The Metro is hardly Daily Mail jnr. They reported on the Polish leaving, they published many, many pro-Manhunt 2 letters and gave GTA 4 a glowing review.



Since 2006 is important, my memory referred to 2005.

Interesting report on the press reaction to Davis, subtly ignoring the fucking appalling BBC reporting, obv.


Pretty much what you'd expect, then. I also still see zero explanation for all the ego shit being slung his way. Seriously—what has Davis really got to gain from this, bar promoting discussion? GAH!

As for all the people rattling on about Cameron and a split in the party, a smart man would have done a press statement by now, fully endorsing Davis's decision and also nailing colours to the mast regarding freedoms and civil liberties. Clearly, Cameron isn't that smart.

A potential future leadership bid is all I can think of.

Yeah, like I said originally, they just said "were charged" and that leaves the stat very open to claims of abuse. And of course they were brought in for "ZOMGTERROR!"

Yeah, seriously what the fuck is going on here with the press? I can understand The Sun going bonkers - though its extremity surprised me once again - but everyone else seems to be towing the line as well. Have they become so used to dissecting inter-party political relations that they can't understand someone making a stand any more? Cameron needs to make a statement and fast, and the wisest would be unequivocal support and a specific refuting of the paper's speculation.

The Sun is making me feel naseous again, I can only hope it gets a bloody nose in the contest. Or its balls ripped off, that would be quite nice.

I don't normally post in political threads because I get easily upset and depressed, but c'mon - the fucking Magna Carta. If a despotic King of an invading army could come up with a core freedom, then why is it so hard for a democratic country to preserve it?

The Press response is the most astonishing thing I've seen in a long, long while.

What the hell is going on?

And I watched Keith Olbermanns comments about Habeus Corpus and thought "Ha! At least they'll never try that here."

Fuck ME. I'm in said constituency and on Look North tonight there was some balanced stuff from David Davis followed by an interview with that utter cuntwit Kelvin Mackenzie bellowing at the camera.

I am going to HAVE to vote tory aren't I? It's not even an option. I will be soiled forever.

Unless you want page three girls for every constituent.

< http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7459053.stm >

Oh, go away Mr Brown.

I just can't bring myself to even listen to the cretin any more.

Doublespeak++

I clicked on the Have Your Say section to the right of that article, and it's super accurate, isn't it?

I think it's a great argument: "We're protecting your civil liberties by taking them away from you." Perhaps Brown's definition of safeguarding civil liberties means slinging them in a drawer until they're long forgotten.

Only trouble with trusting the government with your liberties is how likely they are to be left on a train, or lost in the post.

Its the argument a card board cut out villian prime minister would use in a really bad sci-fi tv show.

His entire argument rests on convincing people that Safety is a Civil Liberty - rather than the thing that stands opposite them.

He has however somehow succeeded in convincing people the choice is between 28 and 42 days, as if 28 days is a long standing accepted limit and is as low as things ever were.

28 days is too long, no question. The problem is that the vote was not over a reduction of the limit but on increasing it.

Frankly, the more I think about this bill, and with plenty of others passed in recent years, the more angry and miserable I get. There are odd rays of hope - I think the tide is slowly turning - but short of a major repeal act, we're going to have to settle for whatever scraps we can get.

I thought the thing was that they looked at goings on,and patterns in behaviour of suspects, then pulled the communications guy into custody and watched what happened with everyone else suspected for a while then charged on the basis of what their frantic re-routing and chance-taking revealed. And that 28 days was not quite long enough in the past to get the people they were after. In which case we want a law which allows in very specific circumstances for this to happen, nad not just anything under the auspices of terrorist shenanagins.

Internment never did any good to the early 70's Ulster terrorism business did it?

No, if they want to keep people for any length of time they need to charge them.