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Political Banter and Debate Thread https://www.beexcellenttoeachother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10024 |
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Author: | MaliA [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:49 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful IT IS A BURBERRY. Or was, MrsA made me throw it away. |
Author: | Cras [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Curiosity wrote: Democracy sucks. True story. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! I wish there were some sort of quote from a great historical figure to illustrate that very point. |
Author: | DavPaz [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: Lonewolves wrote: All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful IT IS A BURBERRY. Or was, MrsA made me throw it away. Giphy "success": http://media.giphy.com/media/jpXAdNRiwGL0k/giphy-loop.mp4 |
Author: | myp [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
MaliA wrote: Lonewolves wrote: All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Joy Beechwood's face is placed over the middle of the Union flag. Malificent cosplay becomes incredibly popular. All beer is awful IT IS A BURBERRY. Or was, MrsA made me throw it away. Probably the best plan to prevent you getting arrested. |
Author: | Kern [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: All armed forces to wear flasher macs as part of their uniform. Thanks to defence cuts, these are the only lethal weapons our boys have! (c) The Now Show, probably |
Author: | MaliA [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:55 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cras wrote: Curiosity wrote: Democracy sucks. True story. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! I wish there were some sort of quote from a great historical figure to illustrate that very point. Ah, that same pale hard-hearted wench, that Rosaline. Torments him so, that he will sure run mad. |
Author: | Cras [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:56 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Perfect |
Author: | Grim... [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:12 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: All beer is awful Well, you'd be happy at least. |
Author: | Hero of Excellence [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:41 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: Cras wrote: Tribalism rarely includes the ability to be honestly self-critical about the tribe you've hitched yourself to. Interestingly I cancelled my Labour membership due to Corbyn's waving through of the govt's unamended Brexit bill. I think I'm going to stay out of party politics for a while as none of them seem to represent me at the moment. Good on you, seriously. I wish a lot more members would walk over that. I have no one really to vote for with enthusiasm – the main parties are now just Red UKIP and Blue UKIP. LibDems I'll vote for reluctantly purely because they aren't nationalist migrant-bashers like the other two, but I find the LibDems slippery and untrustworthy all the same. |
Author: | myp [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:44 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: Lonewolves wrote: All beer is awful Well, you'd be happy at least. Have you tasted Mali's homebrew? I'm sure it's much better now. |
Author: | Grim... [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I have, and it was a long time ago, so I also hope it's better now. |
Author: | Cavey [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:10 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Sir Taxalot wrote: I've always thought that voting was so, so important - it was a hard earned right and as such should be valued highly and not taken for granted. But yet, I feel so overwhelmed by the complexity of everything (yet somewhat contradictorily frustrated that things get oversimplified to an often inaccurate point) and frankly disillusioned by pretty much everything. If I vote, is it properly informed? If it isn't properly informed, is it a waste or somehow improper? Yet how can I start to make sense of all this tangled stuff without being overcome by despair? How many others feel this way? Probably a fucking load. I don't feel like any one party or person represents me either. Very eloquently put, good post - albeit I am bound to say that this can, more or less, be said of *any* intelligent, would-be voter, at any time in the last 30-odd years at least since I've been of voting age (and actually, probably since forever). Surely, this is the very essence and nature of democracy and its limitations - the key word here is *compromise*. There are very, very few people, surely, who are literally 100% happy with every single aspect of their proposed political party's prospectus and actual actions, for entire parliamentary terms, in all respects! For me personally (and as ever), I try to take a high level, big-picture approach. Of the main choices, the present-day Conservative Party most closely and very loosely/broadly matches my own politics. Two elections back, it was Vince Cable's/Nick Clegg's LibDems. Quite simply, I vote accordingly, not with a heavy heart, but actually glad of the democratic choice that my great forebears have bequeathed to the likes of me, through their very great sacrifice and suffering. I'd also hate to see an Italy-type situation where we have dozens of tiny parties all forming unstable 'rainbow' coalitions - give me two or three really big 'broad church' parties and the attendant required compromises at voting booth any day (IMO). |
Author: | MaliA [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:20 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: I have, and it was a long time ago, so I also hope it's better now. Ironed out a lot of issues from the first batches. Chiefly, using brewing sugar to prime, now, and better fermentation temperatures. |
Author: | Grim... [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:26 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Bring some lager to MeatUp! |
Author: | MaliA [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:34 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Grim... wrote: Bring some lager to MeatUp! I need a dedicated fridge to do that. |
Author: | Grim... [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:39 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Giphy "all i hear are excuses": https://media.giphy.com/media/Wo3KQPw0iOiDS/giphy-loop.mp4 |
Author: | Hero of Excellence [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:46 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cavey wrote: I'd also hate to see an Italy-type situation where we have dozens of tiny parties all forming unstable 'rainbow' coalitions - give me two or three really big 'broad church' parties and the attendant required compromises at voting booth any day (IMO). Italy hasn't really been like that since the earlier days of the second republic, and the first republic (1948 to 1992) was dominated by two parties, the permanently-in-government Christian Democracy and the Italian Communist Party. There's three main party blocs in Italy now, the Democratic Party (centre-left), Five Star Movement (populists), Forza Italia (centre-right) and their respective allies. Don't forget that Italy has a huge range of regionalist parties too, just as we have the SNP, Plaid, and the northern Irish parties. (Please don't take that fact correction as a jab against you, it's not. I follow Italian politics and realise there's some common misconceptions about it. Admittedly it's very hard to follow and keep up to date on.) |
Author: | Jem [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 14:18 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Budget boo: 2% rise in NICs for self employed |
Author: | Trousers [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 15:01 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year. I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight. Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want. |
Author: | MaliA [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 15:27 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Any changes to fags, cars, beer and 30 free nursery hours? |
Author: | Cavey [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:13 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Trousers wrote: And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year. I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight. Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want. What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike? |
Author: | Trousers [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:31 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
It doesn't really change the way you pay yourself - more the way you're taxed. If you're operating as a Limited Company profits distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends will (from April 2018) only get £2k worth of tax free dividends a year compared to £5k this year and your entire basic rate band going back a couple of years. From £2k through to the higher rate band you pay 7.5% on Dividends and then 32.5% over that. Bear in mind you'll already have paid corporation tax on your profits as well. They are basically winding back the low wages / high dividends culture that developed to avoid paying NICS. It is sort of fair with the exception of the lack of rights you can end up with as self employed (also getting stung by a 1% increase in Class 4 NIC that they ribbed Red Ed for not promising that he wouldn't put NICs up) |
Author: | Cavey [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:39 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Thanks very much Trousers. I have to say that on the face of it, this absolutely sucks and is the last thing I'd expect from a Tory government. Being a Tory means helping those who work hard and help themselves through said hard work, via incentivisation and not clobbering them with tax. I was disgusted about the last changes to dividends; little guys like you and me get taxed to the hilt, but as you say, the big boys with fancy accountants get away with not just paying less, but pretty much cock all. "Low tax economy" yeah right. But, it's not as though we have any other voting choices; Corbyn would probably burn us at the fecking stake, for having the sheer audacity of doing anything outside of the public sector, let alone just taxing us. |
Author: | Cras [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 18:55 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Doc made a fair point earlier, that it's likely not aimed at those that actually run their own business, but the likes of Deliveroo and Uber, where they're deliberately running an entirely self-employed workforce. Still, the tax only hits the employee, not the umbrella company, which seems highly undesirable. |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 19:18 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cavey wrote: Trousers wrote: And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year. I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight. Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want. What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike? Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf |
Author: | Cavey [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 20:08 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: Cavey wrote: Trousers wrote: And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year. I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight. Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want. What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike? Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf This is beyond fab, fantastic stuff and hugely helpful. Many thanks man, much appreciated. |
Author: | DavPaz [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 21:33 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote: Cavey wrote: Trousers wrote: And fucked over with a reduction with the dividend allowance to....£2k a year. I maintain that Making Tax Digital and various changes to "level the playing field" will mean that everyone gets either taxed at source or over taxed throughout the year (a la CIS) and then a refund calculated in April to set you straight. Apart from loaded people of course. loaded people can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want. What's the idiots guide bullet points please Trousers? Does this affect the way small companies pay via dividends and suchlike? Glad you asked. Me and my idiots did this. http://www.pkf-littlejohn.com/sites/def ... sights.pdf Good stuff! But tell Diana to cheer up a bit. She looks like someone's stolen her lunch |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Wed Mar 08, 2017 21:41 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I've also got the feeling that this won't ever see the light of day, as it is very off-style for us. I'll give it a go tomorrow but think compliance will want it watered down to the point I'll refuse to publish it. Apologies for formatting, its a c/p ex word. ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view! |
Author: | Trousers [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:07 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Would it not make a decent LinkedIn article for you rather than the company as a personal opinion or would that still be frowned upon? I was at the FreeAgent Partner Summit* last month and the Head of the OTS was there. He did a session on PAYE/NIC alignment and the plan seemed sensible; Quote: The OTS believes its overall seven stage closer-alignment plan is realistic and has proposed a five year timetable, between 2017 and 2022. The stages are: calculating employee NICs on a similar basis to PAYE; moving employer NICs to a payroll levy; aligning the scope and definitions for income tax and NICs; the self-employed to pay and receive the same contributory benefits as employees; bringing benefits in kind fully within NICs; increasing transparency and understanding amongst taxpayers; and harmonising administration and legislative procedures. So Hammond has basically gone for step 4 and just the "Self-employed pay more" bit. I hope his spreadsheets suffer from an unfindable circular calc. * As exciting as it sounds. |
Author: | Kern [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:31 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
From yesterday's PMQs: Bercow wrote: Finally, Mr Tim Farron. [Interruption.] Order. I do not know whether Members are cheering because it is “finally” or because of the popularity of the hon. Gentleman, but he is going to be heard.
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Author: | MrChris [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:42 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Kern wrote: From yesterday's PMQs: Bercow wrote: Finally, Mr Tim Farron. [Interruption.] Order. I do not know whether Members are cheering because it is “finally” or because of the popularity of the hon. Gentleman, but he is going to be heard. He's a card, that Bercow. |
Author: | Squirt [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:10 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right? |
Author: | myp [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:15 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Squirt wrote: Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right? The rates are completely different, and in theory the money is for different things than income tax. |
Author: | Trousers [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: Squirt wrote: Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right? The rates are completely different, and in theory the money is for different things than income tax. It all just ends up in one pot now for the treasury but originally it was set up in order to fund state benefits. It used to be you received an actual stamp in a savings book (like Green Shield stamps for the really old among us - Cavey) and I still occasionally use the term regarding being paid enough to "earn your stamp", in much the way I will refer to 50p as ten bob. It's a massive pain in the arse now - the NIC tables look like someone vomited up all the numbers possible. We have sales people trying to explain the difference between the Lower Earnings Limit and Primary Threshold on a daily basis and nobody understands what they are saying, including the sales people themselves. Part time workers and zero hours contracts allow companies to employ loads of workers on shitty hours and wages yet keep them below the NIC thresholds so they don't have to pay any NIC's. Then when they do have to pay people more they shift them over to self employed so they then don't have to pay any employer NICS and the workers don't get any of those pesky rights. |
Author: | Squirt [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:50 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
It does seem needlessly complicated - it's actually pretty hard to find what my actual marginal "tax rate" is, if you combine NI and Income Tax. |
Author: | ApplePieOfDestiny [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Lonewolves wrote: Squirt wrote: Question - is there a reason why we have Employees NIC and Income Tax as separate things? For a majority of people they're basically two lines that amount to the same result, right? Because the Daily Mail would have a shit fit if the basic rate of income tax went above 20%, even if everyone is paying 32% in reality Feex |
Author: | Cavey [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 15:11 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Trousers wrote: It all just ends up in one pot now for the treasury but originally it was set up in order to fund state benefits. It used to be you received an actual stamp in a savings book (like Green Shield stamps for the really old among us - Cavey) /feebly shakes walking stick |
Author: | BikNorton [ Thu Mar 09, 2017 20:22 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Get off, it's a super-lightweight Porsche Design carbon fibre walking stick and there's no fooling anyone. |
Author: | MaliA [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:44 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cat in the Hat to come back? Galloway might stand in Manchester |
Author: | Hearthly [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:52 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -raised-it I really wish this shower of cunts actually had some meaningful opposition. A Labour party or a Lib/Lab coalition with its shit together would be absolutely ripping them to shreds. The Corbyn experiment hasn't worked, a change of plan is needed. Quote: The Conservative party’s 2015 manifesto was unequivocal, promising four times that a Tory government would not increase national insurance. It did not mention the self-employed and offered future chancellors no wriggle room. On page three, it said: We will not raise VAT, national insurance contributions or income tax but we will raise the 40p income tax threshold to £50,000. On page six, it promised to “commit to no increases in VAT, national insurance contributions or income tax.” On page nine, it explained how it planned to do this: Our approach is focused on reducing wasteful spending, making savings in welfare, and continuing to crack down on tax evasion and aggressive avoidance. This means that we can commit to no increases in VAT, income tax or national insurance. Tax rises on working people would harm our economy, reduce living standards and cost jobs. Instead, as we reduce the deficit, we will cut income tax, as we have done over the last five years: during the next parliament, we will increase the tax-free personal allowance to £12,500 and the higher rate threshold to £50,000, so you keep more of your hard-earned money. And for the avoidance of doubt, on page 27, it said: A Conservative government will not increase the rates of VAT, income tax or national insurance in the next parliament. After the election, the first Queen’s speech of the parliament underlined the commitment not to increase national insurance. Legislation will be brought forward to ensure people working 30 hours a week on the national minimum wage do not pay income tax, and to ensure there are no rises in income tax rates, Value Added Tax or national insurance for the next five years. The tax lock was duly passed. Attachment: lying_economically_competent_cockbag.JPG
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Author: | Cavey [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:27 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
I'd say the Corbyn experiment is going awesomely well old boy (from a Tory perspective, natch ) |
Author: | Cavey [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:30 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Latest opinion poll puts Conservatives on 44%, Labour on 25%. Wow. It's panning out exactly as I said it would. The non-stupid thing to do would be to not concentrate on the £3 a year "Trots", ultra lefties and zealots who've recently joined the party, but actually, everyone else. All too late though. Labour is doomed whatever it does now. Corbyn = 20 years unopposed Conservative Government. As I said at the time of his election. I thought they would implode spectacularly, but it would appear that actually, they don't have the guts even for that. It now looks like they're going out with a whimper, not a bang. |
Author: | Hero of Excellence [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 13:06 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Maybe some of us ex-Labour voters hate Corbyn and the party for backing Hard Brexit and dredging up decades-old unworkable policies that have no place in modern social democracy? There's a thought, for once. You're probably getting off on the building xenophobia and Little Englander Britannia Rules the Waves bullshit as it doesn't affect you, but it terrifies some of us, believe it or not, and it's disgusting seeing the Labour Party capitulate to it. |
Author: | Cavey [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:26 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Owen Jones has flounced from Twitter, apparently. |
Author: | Curiosity [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:55 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Cavey wrote: Owen Jones has flounced from Twitter, apparently. To be fair, he didn't flounce. He posted a long explanation of how he thought that it was no longer productive and that he spent all of his time dealing with receiving hateful abuse. |
Author: | Cavey [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:06 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Well, that's Twitter for you. Full of loons and trolls with nothing better or more productive to do with their time. I'm not in any way excusing the antics of such people, but one does have to consider the nature of the constituency he's himself been overtly courting and frothing at for the past however many years (I seem to recall him flouncing off QT?) At the political extremes, there will always be a ready supply of nutters who are more SE than you, and not just for show either. As ever, you live by the sword etc., I guess. |
Author: | MaliA [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:10 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Secession! Shipley and Keighley MPs want their constituencies to not be part of Bradford MDC, as the tax collected there funds the inner city disproportionately. This could get interesting. I think I would be for it. |
Author: | MaliA [ Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:50 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Heh. |
Author: | Cavey [ Tue Mar 14, 2017 14:44 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Quote: The Government's historic Brexit Bill cleared Parliament yesterday, after the Commons sent it onwards into law. This could have been a big moment for the Leader of the Opposition – if only he thought it was worth his time. Jeremy Corbyn had originally decided it would be a better use of his time to attend a Momentum protest rally outside Parliament as MPs discussed the Article 50 legislation inside the Commons. That way, he could put pressure on the Government over its refusal to guarantee the rights of EU citizens. In the end, he gave it a miss. His supporters had to settle for John McDonnell and Diane Abbott instead. Despite declaring last month that "the real fight starts now", Westminster went without hearing from Mr Corbyn inside or outside the chamber. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... ust-given/ |
Author: | myp [ Tue Mar 14, 2017 14:53 ] |
Post subject: | Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread |
Utterly baffling. |
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