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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 18:23 
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Hearthly wrote:
The same SVR that HSBC have now reviewed after the BoE base rate cut and decided they'll leave as it is.


An unexpected wild bonus appears!

We are now officially £16.32p a month better off.

They've passed on 0.25% of the base rate cut, which is not as good as 0.5% but better than 0%, so I'll take it.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 18:32 
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Wasn't the base rate only cut by 0.25% anyway?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 18:33 
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Hearthly wrote:

They've passed on 0.25% of the base rate cut, which is not as good as 0.5% but better than 0%, so I'll take it.

The base rate was cut from 0.5% to 0.25%, and your bank appears to have passed the whole of it on to you?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 18:39 
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Oh yes, what a total brain fart that was, I have no idea why I had 0.5% in my head as the base rate cut.

Ummm, hooray for HSBC! 100% of savings passed onto customers!

I feel like going wild and buying all the Titan X cards.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 18:52 
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Hearthly wrote:
I feel like going wild and buying all the Titan X cards.

Well, you do own a car.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:14 
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... our-corbyn

Quote:
Peter Taaffe, the veteran leader of Militant – the hard-left group pushed out of Labour in the 1980s and now renamed the Socialist party – expects to be readmitted to Labour if Jeremy Corbyn wins September’s leadership election.

Taaffe, who was a founding editor of the Militant newspaper and has remained active throughout the movement’s existence, said he had sounded out Corbyn indirectly, including through Mark Serwotka, the leader of the PCS union, about the possibility of reversing Neil Kinnock’s ban on Militant.

...

The Socialist party published an editorial on Tuesday which argued for a Labour split, even if it meant Labour was left with just 20 MPs. “The civil war, now it is out in the open, cannot be simply called off,” the editorial said.

“The worst response to Jeremy’s re-election would be to attempt to make peace with the Blairites. Many Labour supporters will fear that a split would weaken the Labour party. In fact the opposite would be the case.

“True a Blairite split away would, at least initially, dramatically decrease the number of Labour MPs in Westminster. But a group of 40, or even 20 or 30, MPs who consistently campaigned against austerity and defended workers in struggle would do far more to strengthen the fightback against the Tories than 232 ‘Labour’ MPs, a majority who vote for austerity, privatisation and war.”


It's just as well Corbyn appears to believe in homeopathy, as this is homeopathic opposition.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:16 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's just as well Corbyn appears to believe in homeopathy, as this is homeopathic opposition.


Bravo!


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:19 
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Also, regarding the common belief of "232 ‘Labour’ MPs, a majority who vote for austerity," I read this interesting piece about how that vote was more nuanced than I'd realised: https://medium.com/@rob_francis/that-we ... .67tlhqz93
ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Quote:
This amendment argued that the bill would effectively repeal the Child Poverty Act, and would introduce measures which would be unfair to sick and disabled people; as such, the amendment argued that the bill should not proceed.

193 Labour MPs voted to support this amendment and so block the bill; these MPs included Yvette Cooper, Liz Kendall, and Andy Burnham. Interestingly, Jeremy Corbyn abstained, along with all SNP MPs. You can see the votes here.

This amendment was defeated, and so MPs voted on the second reading of the bill. Harriet Harman asked Labour MPs to abstain, and 184 did, including all leadership candidates apart from Jeremy Corbyn. This abstention, this is the vote that Corbynites point to as incontrovertible proof that most Labour MPs are immoral, austerity loving Red Tories.

But if that were true, why wouldn’t they just vote in favour? Why would they have tried to pass an amendment that would have blocked the bill entirely? Consider the following.

A bill passing its second reading does not mean it becomes law. Following this vote, the bill goes through various stages where it is scrutinised and challenged, line by line.
There were elements of the bill that were positive. The bill committed to create three million apprenticeships, to reduce rental costs in social housing, and to provide support for early intervention programmes.

There were not enough Labour MPs to vote the bill down in any case.

Given all of this, Harriet Harman decided, unwisely, to use the vote as a platform; to demonstrate that Labour had heard an electorate which thought that the party spends too much on welfare. Further, there were parts of the bill that Labour wanted to retain, as Dan Jarvis says here. So Labour abstained, with the strategy being to either amend the bill at the committee stage, or to try and vote it down at the third reading.

At the third and final reading of the bill in the Commons, the text still contained the measures that Labour objected to, and so the party opposed it. 209 Labour MPs voted against; including Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper, and Liz Kendall.

...

Let’s be clear. Abstaining in the second reading of the Welfare Reform and Work bill was the wrong decision. Clearly it is something that we in the Labour Party should have opposed, in the interests of protecting the sick and reducing poverty, as Hilary Benn says here.

But even from a strategic viewpoint it was a mistake; the Labour response to the bill will be long forgotten by the next general election, and we were weeks away from electing a new leader who would want to construct their own economic narrative in any case. Harman’s desire to hear the electorate was laudable but a bit confused; the electorate had, two months previously, voted for us to provide opposition. Opposing governmental policy would have been a reasonable thing to do.

But let’s not pretend that Labour MPs are signed up to austerity, or that by abstaining, they helped pass this into law. This was Harriet Harman, hoping to send a message to the electorate, in a vote that couldn’t be won, and also trying to salvage the positive elements of the bill in committee. People claiming that “Labour might as well have supported it” fundamentally do not understand how parliament works. We can file this whole business under “stupid mistake” rather than “evil Tory”.
(Emphasis mine.)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:56 
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Oh my fucking stars

Quote:
Smith’s campaign received a fillip on Wednesday when he was endorsed by the GMB union after he won a ballot of its members, 60% to 40%. Its general secretary, Tim Roache, said: “GMB members cannot afford for Labour to be talking to itself in a bubble for the next five years while the Tories run riot through our rights at work, our public services and our communities.”

Corbyn’s allies blame the result on “GMB political officers close to Watson” and claimed the ballot question “Who do you think is best placed to lead the Labour party to a general election victory and serve as prime minister?” was a leading one, because it made reference to electability.


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... filtration


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:56 
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It would be interesting, in the event of a Labour split in the current parliament, to see how NuNuLabour operates under those circumstances. In order to be relevant, and particular to be able to point to this in a subsequent GE, they would somehow have to position themselves as being different from both the Tories and OldOldLabour, which in the context of voting Aye or Nay, is going to be quite troublesome. Abstain on everything?


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:02 
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Life in the Commons can be about more than just being herded through the division lobbies when the bell goes. New Labour:Rebooted could land blows during ministerial questions, haul Tories over the coals in committees, play clever parliamentary games forcing senior members to abandon dinner to get the Commons to avoid a defeat on minor issues, and so on. The problem with Labour at the moment is that they're letting the government get off the hook on far too much.

Parliament's scrutiny role is just as important as its legislative function, perhaps moreso.

EDIT: And, of course, winning the airwar - or at the very least putting up a fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:17 
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The GMB endorsement is hopefully a sign that (if it comes to it) a post-split NuNuLabour could get at least some union backing.

(I'd join a hypothetical NuNuLabour. It'd highly likely be to the right of where I'm comfortable politically, but it won't be run by the far left either.)


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:40 
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Kern wrote:
Life in the Commons can be about more than just being herded through the division lobbies when the bell goes. New Labour:Rebooted could land blows during ministerial questions, haul Tories over the coals in committees, play clever parliamentary games forcing senior members to abandon dinner to get the Commons to avoid a defeat on minor issues, and so on. The problem with Labour at the moment is that they're letting the government get off the hook on far too much.

Parliament's scrutiny role is just as important as its legislative function, perhaps moreso.

EDIT: And, of course, winning the airwar - or at the very least putting up a fight.


I don't disagree with any of this. However as we also know, the great unwashed do not pay great attention to the parliamentary scrutiny or indeed to parliament as a whole - but to newspaper and TV reports on votes won and votes lost by the government and who supported them.

My post was partly joined to that made by the Right honourable Dr G. I would suggest that many more people believe and will always believe that Labour voted for austerity than will ever read the article explaining the nuances as to what they were actually voting for,


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:42 
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ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
My post was partly joined to that made by the Right honourable Dr G. I would suggest that many more people believe and will always believe that Labour voted for austerity than will ever read the article explaining the nuances as to what they were actually voting for,

Aye, I agree with that. "A lie is halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on," and in this case, it's a half-lie versus a half-truth which exacerbates it further.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:46 
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good old Phil!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:09 
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MaliA wrote:


Fucking hell.

Oh look, he's divorced and his wife has custody of the kids. That's a shocker.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 13:36 
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Cras wrote:
MaliA wrote:


Fucking hell.

Oh look, he's divorced and his wife has custody of the kids. That's a shocker.


He knows which notes to hit with his constituents in the aging, white, and relatively affluent constituency of his.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 15:21 
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The Labour NEC have won the appeal preventing its own members voting for their leader. The circus continues.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 16:19 
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Curiosity wrote:
The Labour NEC have won the appeal preventing its own members voting for their leader. The circus continues.


So the members can? Or cannot?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 16:22 
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MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
The Labour NEC have won the appeal preventing its own members voting for their leader. The circus continues.


So the members can? Or cannot?


The NEC is legally allowed to prevent the members voting.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 16:28 
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Gogmagog

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Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
The Labour NEC have won the appeal preventing its own members voting for their leader. The circus continues.


So the members can? Or cannot?


The NEC is legally allowed to prevent the members voting.


I think i much preferred the time in my life when all I had to worry about was who shot Nice Guy Eddy

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:25 
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Do you know anything about Bill Etheridge, the guy who wants to be the next leader of UKIP?

This story should tell you what kind of a guy he is..

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/poli ... ty-claims/

I don't mean to clickbait you all, but his last comment makes it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:50 
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TBF, he's not really wrong overall. Although the "men's issue" bit is an interestingly silly one one - media-wise there is a small tendency for cheating men to be portrayed as baddies and cheating women as people escaping dull/boring/shit husbands hahaha cuckolded.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:57 
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MrChris wrote:
media-wise there is a small tendency for cheating men to be portrayed as baddies and cheating women as people escaping dull/boring/shit husbands

Citation?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:57 
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Pretty sure you've got no legal leg to stand on with respect to getting the police involved in your spouse publicly calling you a cheater. He can probably sue her for defamation if he really wants to go down that road, but surely that's a civil matter, how would the police be involved? Or have I missed something?

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:58 
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Cras wrote:
Pretty sure you've got no legal leg to stand on with respect to getting the police involved in your spouse publicly calling you a cheater. He can probably sue her for defamation if he really wants to go down that road, but surely that's a civil matter, how would the police be involved? Or have I missed something?

"UKIP"


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:04 
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Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
media-wise there is a small tendency for cheating men to be portrayed as baddies and cheating women as people escaping dull/boring/shit husbands

Citation?


Lady Chatterly's Lover

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:06 
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Cras wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
MrChris wrote:
media-wise there is a small tendency for cheating men to be portrayed as baddies and cheating women as people escaping dull/boring/shit husbands

Citation?


Lady Chatterly's Lover


Wuthering heights

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:19 
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So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:27 
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Jeremy Partridge


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:27 
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Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:33 
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Yet if a man has a lot of sexual conquests he is congratulated, and if a woman does then she is labelled a 'slut'.

Also the pervasive attitude that men are 'programmed' to cheat as if they can't control their own actions due to hormones or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:37 
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Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D


It's very good.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:41 
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MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D


It's very good.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:49 
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Myp - a lot of the crappy books and films Mrs K watches, plus the general tenor of media discourse on people cheating on others. However, it more focusses on the man being a cuckold (hahaha etc) rather than congratulating the woman for her new sexual conquest (although there is often a degree of "Phew, escaped the boring man to my new hunky artist or whatever"), and you're right there is (sometimes, but continually less frequently than there used to be I think) a view that sexually promiscuous women are "sluts", but I think that's increasingly often the view of men who do it now too.

In an ideal world of course what people get up to in their (or other people's) bedrooms wouldn't make any difference to anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:24 
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Or McDonald's car parks

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:01 
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MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D


It's very good.


There's an interesting (YMMV) article on 538 about how shows aimed primarily at women suffer from lower ratings on IMDB and similar due to a proliferation of male reviewers scoring them lower due to being less 'worthy' than shows aimed primarily at male demographics.

It's here:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men ... -at-women/

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:07 
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It'd scored higher had Charlotte got her tits out more, mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:12 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D


It's very good.


There's an interesting (YMMV) article on 538 about how shows aimed primarily at women suffer from lower ratings on IMDB and similar due to a proliferation of male reviewers scoring them lower due to being less 'worthy' than shows aimed primarily at male demographics.

It's here:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men ... -at-women/


I would have said that is just programs with different target audiences, but after the rubbish with ghostbusters.. I can see how bad some men can be...

I mean sex and the city is aimed at women and Maila

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:15 
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Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:18 
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Cras wrote:
Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

It's seen as a zero-sum game. If they make things that are not targeted at a young white male audience it somehow threatens them as they think less stuff is being made for them.

So vote it down so this kind of stuff is made less!

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:28 
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Gogmagog

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KovacsC wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
So, apart from books written hundreds of years ago...


Sex and the City.

I dunno. I've not really watched it, but I'm guessing :D


It's very good.


There's an interesting (YMMV) article on 538 about how shows aimed primarily at women suffer from lower ratings on IMDB and similar due to a proliferation of male reviewers scoring them lower due to being less 'worthy' than shows aimed primarily at male demographics.

It's here:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men ... -at-women/


I would have said that is just programs with different target audiences, but after the rubbish with ghostbusters.. I can see how bad some men can be...

I mean sex and the city is aimed at women and Maila



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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:28 
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which is really pathetic

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:30 
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Paws for thought

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Cras wrote:
Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

As someone who was made to watch Bridget Jones Diary by a lady friend, I can understand the need to publicly butch about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:37 
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INFINITE POWAH

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The assumption it's largely neckbeards/MRAs/whatever-we're-calling-them-now/twatty loners marking them down rather than aggrieved boyfriends who've been made to watch shit films, or indeed women who've watched them and thought they were shit (lord knows Mrs K would mark down a fair few romcoms recently - too many people dying and not enough feelgood laughs apparently), is perhaps not necessarily spot on, although I'm sure they contribute. Then again, I would never ever ever wade through the morass of self-important entitled shitbag comments on IMDB to find out the reasoning behind the voting. The comments on *any* film on there are just bizarre.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:43 
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UltraMod

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In the case of Ghostbusters it was exactly that. How dare they make the dumb receptionist a man - teh sexisms!

Also it somehow went back in time and ruined their childhoods, conveniently forgetting the garbage that was Ghostbusters 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:49 
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Gogmagog

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Mr Dave wrote:
Cras wrote:
Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

As someone who was made to watch Bridget Jones Diary by a lady friend, I can understand the need to publicly butch about it.


See you that and raise you The Holiday.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:51 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Lonewolves wrote:
In the case of Ghostbusters it was exactly that. How dare they make the dumb receptionist a man - teh sexisms!

Also it somehow went back in time and ruined their childhoods,


Oh god yes, the whole Youtube voting thing was beyond ridiculous. I'm just not convinced all the low scores for some non-blokey films on IMDB are due to the same people, although I'm sure they've contributed.

Quote:
conveniently forgetting the garbage that was Ghostbusters 2.


Oh god no! I love that film :)

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:52 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Posts: 30498
MaliA wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Cras wrote:
Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

As someone who was made to watch Bridget Jones Diary by a lady friend, I can understand the need to publicly butch about it.


See you that and raise you The Holiday.

I really liked that film.

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 Post subject: Re: Political Banter and Debate Thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 13:55 
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Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
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MrChris wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Mr Dave wrote:
Cras wrote:
Thing is, if you know you're not the target audience, why rate it? It takes an odd sort of dude to seek out programmes aimed at women to then mark them down.

As someone who was made to watch Bridget Jones Diary by a lady friend, I can understand the need to publicly butch about it.


See you that and raise you The Holiday.

I really liked that film.

Erm... me too


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