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Gas Guzzling Money Pits
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Author:  Grim... [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
That reminds me of possibly the best joke I've ever done.
Author:  myp [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote:
That reminds me of possibly the best joke I've ever done.

Wow, I totally missed that. Despite posting about three posts later.
Author:  GazChap [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 14:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Now looking at Volvo S60s and Lexus IS200/IS300s as potential LEAF replacements in September.

Can pick up seemingly decent ones for under a grand, two max.
Author:  Kern [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 14:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Changing a rear windscreen wiper: twenty minutes of fiddling, frantic You-tubing, and mild cursing before it just 'clicks' into place. Gah.
Author:  DavPaz [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 15:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Kern wrote:
Changing a rear windscreen wiper: twenty minutes of fiddling, frantic You-tubing, and mild cursing before it just 'clicks' into place. Gah.

I bet you watched the same video that I did. Turns out, WD40 and brute force is the way
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 15:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
This is what Hertz gave me in the US. I ordered a "midsize." This thing was big enough to park my normal car inside it.

It handled like a bathtub full of water, although with a 300 bhp 3.5l V6 it was surprisingly quick in a straight line. Seven seats just meant I had to drive my whole team around all week, though.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 17:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Man, that's awful. A giant Toyota mum-bus.... can it possibly get any worse? The Americans have awful (mainstream) car tastes.
Author:  Grim... [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Trump will ban non-American cars soon, so it's okay.
Author:  myp [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
The Ford Mustang is pretty mainstream in America.
Author:  Cras [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Lonewolves wrote:
The Ford Mustang is pretty mainstream in America.


Not compared to SUVs, trucks, and minivans.
Author:  Grim... [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Ford F150 is the best selling car, isn't it?
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Lonewolves wrote:
The Ford Mustang is pretty mainstream in America.


No it isn't; in fact, Google says it barely makes it into the Top 20.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/08/us ... gures.html

That's just our romanticized, rose-tinted spectacles vision, which isn't based on reality.
That link provides the full table, but look at the top 18:

1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Civic
3. Honda Accord
4. Toyota Corrolla
5. Nissan Altima
6. Ford Fusion
7. Hyundai Sonata
8. Hyundia Elantra
9. Nissan Sentra
10. Ford Focus
11. Chevrolet Cruze (a Suzuki btw)
12. Kia Soul
13. Nissan Versa
14. Chevrolet Malibu
15. VW Jetta
16. Kia Forte
17. Toyota Prius
18. Kia Optima

...Urrgh. *shivers*

The 'Stang comes in at no.19 -they shift fewer than 10,000 units per year, for a country with 320 million people. So pro-rata, that's like less than 2,000 units per year if it were the UK... wow, big deal. Sad isn't it?

EDIT: Must be units per month, not per year. My bad.

Oh, if you're wondering, no.20 is the Subaru Impreza. Not the hot one, either. :roll:

Like I said. Very bad taste.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
That doesn't sound right. The third most sellingest Ford in the US only sells 10,000 units? Ignore that it is a mustang, there must be more than two fords that sell in excess of that number.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
:shrug:

Dunno. I just lifted it off Google.
Unless they don't class trucks as cars or something?
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I see. Monthly sales figures of 10,000. Not annual.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 18:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
I see. Monthly sales figures of 10,000. Not annual.


Yeah, sorry, my bad. See edit; I realised my error after your 1st post.
Derr.

However, the point still stands - that's a shit list of cars (from an enthusiast/petrolhead perspective).
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 19:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
It's almost like most people have other things to spend money on.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 19:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
It's almost like most people have other things to spend money on.


8)

And your point is, caller?
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 19:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
That it isn't "bad taste."
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 19:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
That it isn't "bad taste."


In the nicest possible way, Doc, you've had a Citroen Picasso and a Clio (IIRC). Thus, I wouldn't expect you to understand - any more than I understand coding, or even accessing the most basic functions on my bloody phone. It's just not your bag. :)
Author:  MrChris [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 20:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Quite. The cool kids have Volvo estates.
Author:  Cavey [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 20:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Quite so old chap. :D
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 20:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I drove a cheap and practical car so I have bad taste. Got it.
Author:  Cras [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 20:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Well, from a petrolhead's perspective, yeah :shrug:
Author:  GazChap [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 21:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I imagine the same list for the UK wouldn't be much better. Or indeed any country.
Author:  Grim... [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 22:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
#19 is pretty mainstream, IMO.

But that is indeed just cars, throw in "trucks" and the top three are Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado and a Ram.
Author:  Grim... [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 22:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Cavey wrote:
any more than I understand coding

Hang on, didn't you used to be a programmer?

Edit: Aha! viewtopic.php?style=26&p=643578#p643578
Author:  DavPaz [ Sun Jan 22, 2017 23:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Cavey wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
That it isn't "bad taste."


In the nicest possible way, Doc, you've had a Citroen Picasso and a Clio (IIRC). Thus, I wouldn't expect you to understand - any more than I understand coding, or even accessing the most basic functions on my bloody phone. It's just not your bag. :)

That's my car history, not Doccy Welsh.

And you're right, I view cars are practical objects. I'm sure that would change if I could afford something sporty.

Like a Honda Jazz
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
GazChap wrote:
I imagine the same list for the UK wouldn't be much better. Or indeed any country.


Hmm, I don't think that, say, the UK or German top 20 are quite as bad, though admittedly far from great.

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/britai ... ds-models/
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/german ... ds-models/

In Germany, the Merc C-Class makes it into the Top 3. (OK, it's hardly a fire-breathing monster but is at least rear wheel drive and a good handler, as well as being a desirable car). It makes the Top 10 in the UK, too, and the Mini and Beemer 1- and 3-series are also in the mix - all also fine handlers (and in the Beemers' case, rear drive as well).

I realise our tastes in cars differ considerably to say the least, but I'm sure you'll agree that just has to be better than the awful, soul-crushing dross they're buying in the States.

But, I take your point to an extent - looks like we're heading in the same (boring) direction; kids just aren't bothered about cars these days and the average age of a biker in the UK is now over 40. We're (literally) a dying breed, people are more bothered about what telephone you're making calls on these days it would appear. :shrug:
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote:
#19 is pretty mainstream, IMO.

But that is indeed just cars, throw in "trucks" and the top three are Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado and a Ram.


If, say, you looked at our typical Top 20 and all the songs were pop papp except no.19, would you be hailing the great state of the music scene/industry? Hell, I'm an optimist and I try to see the positives in any situation, but must admit that's pushing it waay too far even for me.

(As for the 'coder' stuff, well, I was doing OPL/BASIC/Pascal in 1989, but I don't think that makes me a coder, man (sadly), see above. :D )
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
DavPaz wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
That it isn't "bad taste."


In the nicest possible way, Doc, you've had a Citroen Picasso and a Clio (IIRC). Thus, I wouldn't expect you to understand - any more than I understand coding, or even accessing the most basic functions on my bloody phone. It's just not your bag. :)

That's my car history, not Doccy Welsh.

And you're right, I view cars are practical objects. I'm sure that would change if I could afford something sporty.

Like a Honda Jazz


:D
Of course, no doubt Gaywood has taken umbridge as per, but I wasn't trying to take the piss; I don't know the first thing about loads of stuff - phones, computers, laptops, PCs, consoles, software... you name it really! Can you imagine me venturing into the PC hardware thread? Shit, it'd be like Sir Les Patterson staggering into a black tie do (in more ways than one ;) ). People have their passions and their areas of expertise (the two are, of course, inextricably linked - cars and bikes are my thang).

Yours is an entirely sensible, pragmatic view; I'm actually quite jealous in a way. If I'd been like that, I'd have saved six-figure sums. :)
Author:  Hearthly [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Cavey wrote:
But, I take your point to an extent - looks like we're heading in the same (boring) direction; kids just aren't bothered about cars these days and the average age of a biker in the UK is now over 40. We're (literally) a dying breed, people are more bothered about what telephone you're making calls on these days it would appear. :shrug:


Anecdotally, from folks I know with children in their teens and twenties, learning to drive and getting a car just isn't the draw it was when we were that age. Indeed, quite often a car is simply regarded as a massive and unnecessary expense.

I think part of the reason is 25-30 years ago, a car was what gave you freedom. Chances are that at home there was one telly controlled by the parents, no internet, not much to do, maybe living in a less than salubrious neighbourhood, and so on. As such a car represented the ability to get away from all that, and live more of the life you wanted to, to see your friends and engage with the opposite sex.

Fast forward to today, and home is a much more hospitable place. Entertainments galore, computers/tablets/phones, internet and games, streaming anything and everything from all over the world, you can keep in touch with your friends and boyfriend/girlfriend via multiple devices, social media and Skype or whatever, and houses in general are just a lot cosier than they used to be.

I think there's also a similar thing going on with the decline of pubs, 25-30 years ago going out to the pub during the week was what you did to socialise, play pool and pinball, and generally 'do stuff', whereas now you've got everything you want at home, who wants to trudge around the pubs on a cold Tuesday evening?

But yes, back to cars, I'd say there are two main things go on, (1) Is the massive expense involved with learning to drive, then buying a car, insuring it, and keeping it on the road - that's a lot of money and leads onto (2) Which is the car itself doesn't represent anything like what it did when we were a teenager or in our early twenties. Why bother, is what a lot of youngsters think about it IMO.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Yeah, good post mate, sadly I agree.
Author:  MaliA [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I'd suggest that "interesting" cars are more likely to be bought by hobbyists, or those with a greater interest in these things. "Interesting" cars are considerably more expensive to buy, run and maintain than other ones, which reduces the pool of available buyers further. Fleet cars make up a lot of sales (NAMs here use 3 series BMWs, their assistants Golfs or Minis). Privately owned cars are going to be chosen based more on purchase and running costs one woould have thought.

So, no real surprise that the best sellers are somewhat staid.


*More performance orientated
Author:  Doctor Glyndwr [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I have a simpler explanation: they're skint. Millenials are the first generation to grow up poorer than their parents. Age of moving out of parental home is way up. Age of buying first house is way up. Student debt is way up. Entry level jobs are precarious. Probably unsurprising luxuries are falling by the way side.
Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Your pubs had pinball machines in?

Neat.
Author:  markg [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
I agree but also think there's a lot of rose-tinted spectacles here too. The roads have always been filled with boring cars. In fact in the old days most of them were not just boring but absolutely terrible as well.
Author:  Kern [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I have a simpler explanation: they're skint. Millenials are the first generation to grow up poorer than their parents. Age of moving out of parental home is way up. Age of buying first house is way up. Student debt is way up. Entry level jobs are precarious. Probably unsurprising luxuries are falling by the way side.


I've observed that younger people are drinking less, or not at all. Part might be due to increased enforcement of checking ages, making it harder to get into the habit of going to a pub/club, but it might also be for the reasons you and Hearthy have already identified.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
@doc
I don't accept that, living standards have immeasurably improved since when I was young. I drove around in a 12 year old Capri and was considered flash and quite the catch (even if I do say so myself lol), and in order to do even that I had to source, and do the engine transplant in my mate's dad's garage and pump all my disposable income into it (I had a reasonable job too). I hardly see 20-somethings doing that now, most lease new Mercs and Beemers lol. Shit, even the sixth form car parks are chock full of brand spanking cars, and I myself did not permit my girls to drive the type of old wrecks that I had - cars too I might add, let alone bikes!

I agree with Hearthly.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Kern wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I have a simpler explanation: they're skint. Millenials are the first generation to grow up poorer than their parents. Age of moving out of parental home is way up. Age of buying first house is way up. Student debt is way up. Entry level jobs are precarious. Probably unsurprising luxuries are falling by the way side.


I've observed that younger people are drinking less, or not at all. Part might be due to increased enforcement of checking ages, making it harder to get into the habit of going to a pub/club, but it might also be for the reasons you and Hearthy have already identified.


I read it was because young people today dare not getting wasted for fear of making an arse of themselves on Twitter etc. Can you imagine! :(
Author:  myp [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
markg wrote:
I agree but also think there's a lot of rose-tinted spectacles here too. The roads have always been filled with boring cars. In fact in the old days most of them were not just boring but absolutely terrible as well.

Image
Image
Image
Image

And those are just the ones I remember my dad having.
Author:  Cavey [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
BL were shite (Mini excepted) but there were loads of cool Fords, especially the rwd Escorts and Capris to a lesser extent. Then there were the incredibly lairy, dangerous yet very exciting first gen hot hatches - ever driven a Pug 205 GTI?

Mk 1 Escorts fetch up to £70k these days so they must've been onto something- they're awesome to drive and all conquering at classic rallies for a reason.

But the main issue is not that old cars were shit, or not - it's that young people cared much more about them either way.
Author:  Hearthly [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I have a simpler explanation: they're skint. Millenials are the first generation to grow up poorer than their parents. Age of moving out of parental home is way up. Age of buying first house is way up. Student debt is way up. Entry level jobs are precarious. Probably unsurprising luxuries are falling by the way side.


The youngsters I'm thinking of could definitely afford a car, they just don't want one.

I remember that at their age we'd do anything and everything to get a car on the road, irrespective of how much of our income (meagre or otherwise) it'd soak up - the goal was getting a car on the road because of what it allowed us to do, and was far more of a priority than getting our own place to live or anything like that.

Cars just aren't desirable to youngsters in the way they used to be.
Author:  myp [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Cavey wrote:
I read it was because young people today dare not getting wasted for fear of making an arse of themselves on Twitter etc. Can you imagine! :(

lol

You've read a lot of things, mate.
Author:  myp [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Winter is a killer for the Type R's fuel economy. Last summer I was getting 30-35mpg, at the moment I'm lucky if I get 28mpg. The tank before last I only got 23mpg. :'(
Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Lonewolves wrote:
Winter is a killer for the Type R's fuel economy. Last summer I was getting 30-35mpg, at the moment I'm lucky if I get 28mpg. The tank before last I only got 23mpg. :'(

Does it warm up okay? Your thermostat could be stuck open.
Author:  ApplePieOfDestiny [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Don't forget too the different 'quality' of the type of cheap car that your 17 year old would be buying 20-30 years ago. My first car aged 18 was a 10 year old Metro, and my dad (who knew pretty much fuck all about cars compared to my friends dads) was still happy to come along with me and encourage me to buy it on the grounds that if something went wrong, odds were that a tap with a hammer or a quick wipe down would get it back on the road without paying through the nose.

Today a 10 year old car isn't going to be fixed as readily if something goes wrong and the cost of running repairs is going to be higher.

And that's before you get to Insurance.
Author:  myp [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Winter is a killer for the Type R's fuel economy. Last summer I was getting 30-35mpg, at the moment I'm lucky if I get 28mpg. The tank before last I only got 23mpg. :'(

Does it warm up okay? Your thermostat could be stuck open.

Seems to be fine once warm, but I only do 10 miles to work. What symptoms should I be looking for?
Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
When it's cold, the thermostat closes to cut the radiator out of the cooling system, letting the car get up to running temperature quickly. Apart from the obvious heating benefits, it also helps fuel consumption.

Without knowing how long it takes a Civic to come up to temperature when it's in good working order, the only way you can tell is to take the thermostat out, which is a bit much. Perhaps best to ask on a Civic forum.
Author:  Grim... [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Today a 10 year old car isn't going to be fixed as readily if something goes wrong and the cost of running repairs is going to be higher.

Far more reliable, though.
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