Be Excellent To Each Other

As said earlier, sci-fi and fantasy are both settings, not genres. Star Wars is in a sci-fi setting. If you want a genre for it, space opera is about right.

I'd disagree massively. Science fiction and fantasy are certainly both genres.

If that that argument holds up, you'd be able to tell the setting of a sci-fi novel without having read it. For instance (and this works best if you haven't read it ), what is the setting of Ian Watson's "Whores of Babylon" if I tell you it's a scif-fi novel?

If that that argument holds up, you'd be able to tell the setting of a sci-fi novel without having read it. For instance (and this works best if you haven't read it ), what is the setting of Ian Watson's "Whores of Babylon" if I tell you it's a scif-fi novel?

if I tell you it's a scif-fi novel?

Well, you can't tell anything else, either - plot, theme, or genre. Setting is a closer term than any of the others.

Well, it's fiction, innit. And there's some science in it that's more advanced than ours.

And so therefore Science Fiction is a genre and not a setting.

Surely by this stage in an internet nerd-off someone should have started posting dictionary definitions?

Dictionary

A dictionary, also referred to as a lexicon, wordbook, or vocabulary, is a collection of words in one or more specific languages, often listed alphabetically, with usage information, definitions, etymologies, phonetics, pronunciations, and other information;[1] or a book of words in one language with their equivalents in another, also known as a lexicon.[1] According to Nielsen 2008 a dictionary may be regarded as a lexicographical product that is characterised by three significant features: (1) it has been prepared for one or more functions; (2) it contains data that have been selected for the purpose of fulfilling those functions; and (3) its lexicographic structures link and establish relationships between the data so that they can meet the needs of users and fulfil the functions of the dictionary.
Further, each word may have multiple meanings. A dictionary typically includes each separate meaning in the order of most common usage.
In many languages, words can appear in many different forms, but only the undeclined or unconjugated form appears as the headword in most dictionaries. Dictionaries are most commonly found in the form of a book, but some newer dictionaries, like StarDict and the New Oxford American Dictionary are dictionary software running on PDAs or computers. There are also many online dictionaries accessible via the Internet.

That doesn't follow at all. Genre specifies something thematic about the story. Like Grim... said, you can have horror, romance, comedy, adventure, all within the sci-fi setting. Those are the genres.

scentient machines

In broad genre terms it doesn't matter whether the story is a light hearted romantic comedy, satire or adventure, it's still broadly science fiction genre and would be catalogued as such in a library, rightly so in my view.

Your robots smell lovely, Cate.

You don't choose books on the basis of the setting, you choose it on the basis of what it's about. I'd like to avoid the sci-fi romance novels like the plague, thanks, so they should all be over with Jane Austen and Louise Bagshawe.

I couldn't agree more, that's precisely what I've been saying all along. .

I couldn't agree more, that's precisely what I've been saying all along. This whole 'setting' thing is a complete red herring/nonsense IMO.

I think others are claiming that the setting somehow defines genre, which to me seems absurd.

A snake might be quite useful. Not only would the right species of snake be valuable in keeping down the vermin population, larger snakes could be employed in re-shelving books using their dexterous and powerful jaws and supple bodies.

The word "supple" is always, no matter what it's applied to, sexual.

That's not what you're saying at all. You're saying if it's about robots, put it in sci-fi. I'm saying if it's about robots at school clumsily writing each other love poems before finally bumping rusty uglies at the end, put it in teen romance.

I, personally, think genre is more about the meat of the subject matter and the window dressing you're talking about is "setting".

For example Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan is set in a cyberpunk dystopian world, but is actually a classic noir detective novel in the style of Raymond Chandler; complete with double-crossing femme fatales, steamy underworld characters, and a grimly determined protaganist who skirts the law to get to the bottom of the convoluted case.

So it is with Pratchett; as he matured as a writer, his work moved from slapstick farce and into pretty sophisticated satire, and to me it feels much more that that's what it's about. The fantasy aspects are just the mirror he holds up to our world. Sam Vimes, to my mind, is one of the most entertaining fictional detectives I've ever read.

I think this thread has shown that our current book designation system is inadequate. I suggest a system that places a book in a category based on the location and time period of it's setting, major thematic elements, writing style, character types and major plot points, and possibly the inclusion or exclusion of certain key items or elements. For instance, under my new system LoTR is a book of type Tg.XII.ii.aBhg.1178.__!!?.HepJesChaClam.[{. I think we can all agree that this is much simpler and easier to understand, and much less likely to lead to arguments of this type.

/sniggers

Yes, that's the Crastorian Catagorisation System(tm); I'm sure librarians the world over will be thrilled with that. You forgot to add the 'dwarves used, but only in a romantic comedy context' adjunct, though.

Which is why Star Wars isn't science fiction. A lightsaber is just a magic sword, and an X-wing is just a Spitfire.

So what's the force then?

Which is why Star Wars isn't science fiction. A lightsaber is just a magic sword, and an X-wing is just a Spitfire.