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Bik has a point though, the problem doesn't happen with these people, it happens a mile further back where the compression causes a rear ender.

And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all.

Where was I making a fuss?

And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all. Just swapping back across 2 lanes while I'm still very clearly in sight.

Dudley wrote:

And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all.

"Almost" is an important word.

If someone did that to you I suspect you'd be the first to complain about their dangerous driving.

You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead.

See how long that lasts.

Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway.

I drove up and down the motorway this week. It was fine, hardly got miffed at all. The only thing that pisses me off is when someone shoots up behind you at 120mph and flashes you before you've even had a chance to react and move over. It's that kind of thing that makes me want to slam on my breaks. If you're going to drive like an erratic dick, at least give people the chance to react.

Dudley wrote:

You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead.

See how long that lasts.

That generally seems to work fine for me. Even if it didn't, the accident would still ultimately caused by cunts driving too close to the car in front (or the car behind, if you like).

Com wrote:

How bendy was this motorway that it took you longer to notice the guy approaching behind you that it did to move over?

Dudley wrote:

Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway.

Yes, and of the two, your behaviour is demonstrably the more dangerous.

Mr Chris wrote:

Dudley wrote:

You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead.

See how long that lasts.

That generally seems to work fine for me. Even if it didn't, the accident would still ultimately caused by cunts driving too close to the car in front (or the car behind, if you like).

You drive 100m (or more accurately 315ft) behind cars at all times on the motorway and no-one ever changes lane to fill that gap?

Mr Chris wrote:

Dudley wrote:

Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway.

Yes, and of the two, your behaviour is demonstrably the more dangerous.

But far funnier.

Com wrote:

How bendy was this motorway that it took you longer to notice the guy approaching behind you that it did to move over?

Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris?
And does anyone mind if I merge the current driving argument in B&B with this topic?

Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris?

And does anyone mind if I merge the current driving argument in B&B with this topic?

We also have handy chevrons on tge M4 and M5 near us which apparently you need two of between you and the car in front.

How are you supposed to not be angry?

Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris?

Mr Chris wrote:

We also have handy chevrons on tge M4 and M5 near us which apparently you need two of between you and the car in front.

Ah now, with them, is it two chevrons, or having two chevrons visible at all times?

It's worth bearing in mind that you don't actually need 100m to stop unless a tree suddenly grows in the middle of the motorway.

I thought 2 seconds was about the gap you were meant to to leave rather than some set distance.

And now, of course, with modern cars that can actually stop (official braking distances are still based on a Ford Anglia, fact fans), it's only our feeble human minds letting us down.

It's worth bearing in mind that you don't actually need 100m to stop unless a tree suddenly grows in the middle of the motorway.

That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it.

Dudley wrote:

That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it.

Clearly I need to read more twee comedy fantasy books.

Remember the 2 second rule?

kalmar wrote:

Remember the 2 second rule?

"Only a fool believes the two second rule".

Dudley wrote:

That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it.

Clearly I need to read more twee comedy fantasy books.

I think it wasn't actually Pratchett himself who came up with that, it was Jack Horner and that other bloke who got roped in as the scientists to write the "Science of Discworld" books. I may be bothered to check later.

Remember the 2 second rule?

At 60mph, this is 27 meters: not very much!

Grim... wrote:

Com wrote:

How bendy was this motorway that it took you longer to notice the guy approaching behind you that it did to move over?

When someone is going that stupidly fast, they can very easily come out of virtually nowhere. Also consider the fact I might be busy overtaking in the outside lane myself, at a reasonable speed, and so can't suddenly crash into the middle lane at will.

I did breach the 2 second rule egregiously this morning, though, because the stupid stupid idiot in front of me decided that holding up the traffic by rolling past the poor injured car on the other side of the road to have a good look was perfectly acceptable.

At 70 it says ~63m compared to the 100m overall stopping distance twenty years ago.

The last was a fucking ambulance.

Dudley wrote:

At 70 it says ~63m compared to the 100m overall stopping distance twenty years ago.

FTFY. I'd imagine that 63m is probably quite accurate now.

Quote:

At 60mph, this is 27 meters: not very much!

Your maths is wrong. It's 27m/second not 2 seconds. 54m in 2 seconds.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Dudley wrote: Bik has a point though, the problem doesn't happen with these people, it happens a mile further back where the compression causes a rear ender. But what causes the rear ender is somone driving too close to the person in front.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Dudley wrote: And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all. "Almost" is an important word. But slinging your car across the nose of idiots who don't know how to use a motorway should be in the driving test. According to the reversing radar on my father's Toureg, I got within five inches once. Win.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:46 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Dudley wrote: Where was I making a fuss? Any time we talk about middle lanes... Quote: And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all. Just swapping back across 2 lanes while I'm still very clearly in sight. Sorry, a car "changing lane slightly earlier than is strictly required [in order to shake them out of their torpor]" sounded like you were changing back in front of them a tad closer than was necessary, which may conceivably lead them to jump on their brakes and have an accident, no? If someone did that to you I suspect you'd be the first to complain about their dangerous driving.

Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead. See how long that lasts.

Author:	ElephantBanjoGnome [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:47 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
I drove up and down the motorway this week. It was fine, hardly got miffed at all. The only thing that pisses me off is when someone shoots up behind you at 120mph and flashes you before you've even had a chance to react and move over. It's that kind of thing that makes me want to slam on my breaks. If you're going to drive like an erratic dick, at least give people the chance to react.

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Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Grim... wrote: Dudley wrote: And "Deliberately causing an accident?" Where? I'm not touching them at all. "Almost" is an important word. So it is, which I missed, apologies. Quote: If someone did that to you I suspect you'd be the first to complain about their dangerous driving. Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Dudley wrote: You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead. See how long that lasts. That generally seems to work fine for me. Even if it didn't, the accident would still ultimately caused by cunts driving too close to the car in front (or the car behind, if you like).

Author:	The Rev Owen [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Dudley wrote: You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead. See how long that lasts. It pisses me off when I leave a decent gap between the car in front and me and then someone decides to change lanes into it. Grrr.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Dudley wrote: Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway. Yes, and of the two, your behaviour is demonstrably the more dangerous.

Author:	metalangel [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
The other weekend I found myself stuck in a cluster of trucks on a dual carriageway... a huge articulate dump truck had decided he could overtake two other trucks, and proceeded to do so (with the usual 0.5mph speed advantage over them). I was in a line of cars following this tosser... but the funny thing was the executive behind me in a BMW who was going absolutely mental!

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Com wrote: I drove up and down the motorway this week. It was fine, hardly got miffed at all. The only thing that pisses me off is when someone shoots up behind you at 120mph and flashes you before you've even had a chance to react and move over. It's that kind of thing that makes me want to slam on my breaks. If you're going to drive like an erratic dick, at least give people the chance to react. How bendy was this motorway that it took you longer to notice the guy approaching behind you that it did to move over?

Author:	Shin [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
The last time I got angry, and I mean really angry so that I was nearly steaming was when my sister, Rae was being bullied at her school. I live up here and I don't see her much (which is a blessing) but she rang me in tears because there was this one girl that said she was going to stab her because Rae was dating the lad that she fancied. Rae said she was too scared to go to school and didn't want to say anything as this girl had quite a few friends that were going to help her out. Rae is a very pretty girl and this other was a short, fat girl with awful teeth and glasses, so obviously she was jealous of Rae. I got Rae to speak with the teachers about it all and they said that they could tell the girl off basically, but until she brought a knife or something they couldn't act. Fucking idiots. So I went down a week just before the summer holidays and I walked down with Rae to the school bus, but kept at a distance so noone knew I was 'with' her. The girl was stood at the bus stop with 2 friends who looked rough as hell. Rae looked at me once and my heart nearly broke, I didn't want her anywhere near them, but I had to wait and see what they did so I could act accordingly to the situation. Rae went over and stood about 5 feet away from them and waited for the bus, saying nothing, not looking at the or anything. One of the girls came over to her and shoved her and the fat girl was egging her on to punch her. I don't fucking think so love. I raced over and the girl backed off, 'If I even catch you looking at my little sister again you bitch I will break your fucking neck, you got me? And if I hear anymore about this knife business I'll show you how to use one properly. I don't want to see you near her again.' I was pretty scary actually, even Rae shrunk back at my face. I was all teeth and eyes apparently 0_o; If there wasn't a lot of people round I would have torn her throat out. While me and my sister don't get on at all, I won't have anyone do anything to her, my close family is very important to me. That day the 2 girls were suspended from school because they had pen knives on them, it was lucky really that I decided to go down otherwise one could have been stuck in my little sister. Knives in schools, I can't believe it's got this bad.

Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Mr Chris wrote: Dudley wrote: You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead. See how long that lasts. That generally seems to work fine for me. Even if it didn't, the accident would still ultimately caused by cunts driving too close to the car in front (or the car behind, if you like). You drive 100m (or more accurately 315ft) behind cars at all times on the motorway and no-one ever changes lane to fill that gap? I really must drive the candy motorway in rainbow land more often.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Grim... wrote: Com wrote: I drove up and down the motorway this week. It was fine, hardly got miffed at all. The only thing that pisses me off is when someone shoots up behind you at 120mph and flashes you before you've even had a chance to react and move over. It's that kind of thing that makes me want to slam on my breaks. If you're going to drive like an erratic dick, at least give people the chance to react. How bendy was this motorway that it took you longer to notice the guy approaching behind you that it did to move over? It may have been the horizon....

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
Mr Chris wrote: Dudley wrote: Indeed, except that it wouldn't happen because I wouldn't be driving 10 mph under the limit in the middle lane of an empty motorway. Yes, and of the two, your behaviour is demonstrably the more dangerous. But far funnier.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:53 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Dudley wrote: Mr Chris wrote: Dudley wrote: You try leaving a gap large enough on the motorway that can see you stop to 0 before you hit them if they stop dead. See how long that lasts. That generally seems to work fine for me. Even if it didn't, the accident would still ultimately caused by cunts driving too close to the car in front (or the car behind, if you like). You drive 100m (or more accurately 315ft) behind cars at all times on the motorway and no-one ever changes lane to fill that gap? Sometimes they do, and when they do I drift back a bit further to open the gap up again. Simple. Perhaps not living in the City O' Cunts helps...

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris? And does anyone mind if I merge the current driving argument in B&B with this topic?

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: Bits and Bobs 3
I'm just thinking that you are utterly wrong, but then I figured that people may not come up behind me quite so quickly because I'm normally the one doing 120mph.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:58 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris? Fairly sure, yes. It's quite a ways. It's far further than the apparently standard-issue 10m which seems so popular among drivers of today. We also have handy chevrons on the M4 and M5 near us which apparently you need two of between you and the car in front. to make a hollow laughing Quote: And does anyone mind if I merge the current driving argument in B&B with this topic? Fine with me!

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Mr Chris wrote: We also have handy chevrons on tge M4 and M5 near us which apparently you need two of between you and the car in front. Ah now, with them, is it two chevrons, or having two chevrons visible at all times?

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
You've used this forum before, right?

Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: Are you sure you know how far 100m is, Sir Chris? Indeed, it's a very very long way. On the mentioned M4 segment it's actually 2.5 Chevrons.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: Mr Chris wrote: We also have handy chevrons on tge M4 and M5 near us which apparently you need two of between you and the car in front. Ah now, with them, is it two chevrons, or having two chevrons visible at all times? I assumed the later, otherwise it's not a very long way.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:07 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
It's worth bearing in mind that you don't actually need 100m to stop unless a tree suddenly grows in the middle of the motorway.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: It's worth bearing in mind that you don't actually need 100m to stop unless a tree suddenly grows in the middle of the motorway. Hey, it happens. You need a bit less than 100m if there's an acccident, of course, as the accident will travel a ways as well, but still - I think you need more than 10m.

Author:	markg [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:10 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
I thought 2 seconds was about the gap you were meant to to leave rather than some set distance.

Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
markg wrote: I thought 2 seconds was about the gap you were meant to to leave rather than some set distance. That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it. 2 seconds is absurdly generous at 30mph, not enough at 70 and something of a joke above that. At 70, 2 seconds will leave you about 20m short of being able to stop if they stop dead for whatever reason.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
And now, of course, with modern cars that can actually stop (official braking distances are still based on a Ford Anglia, fact fans), it's only our feeble human minds letting us down. Apparently, stamping on the brakes in one of the new Merc's coming out can actually cause you more harm than a 20mph crash into a wall does

Author:	Dudley [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:17 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: And now, of course, with modern cars that can actually stop (official braking distances are still based on a Ford Anglia, fact fans), it's only our feeble human minds letting us down. Accepted. Although the "official" distances do also assume perfect conditions and someone actually paying attention, both of which are a premium on the M4.

Author:	kalmar [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: It's worth bearing in mind that you don't actually need 100m to stop unless a tree suddenly grows in the middle of the motorway. Well, it depends how fast you're going, and whether you're actually paying attention or not. Remember the 2 second rule? At 60mph, this is 27 meters: not very much! The highway code sez (for 60mph): Thinking distance: 18m Braking distance: 55m Overall: 73m And at 70mph, it's 96m overall. Although as you pointed out, the traffic in front of you will also take some distance to stop.

Author:	markg [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Dudley wrote: That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it. Clearly I need to read more twee comedy fantasy books.

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
markg wrote: Dudley wrote: That's a "lie to children" as Terry Prachett put it. Clearly I need to read more twee comedy fantasy books. I think it wasn't actually Pratchett himself who came up with that, it was Jack Horner and that other bloke who got roped in as the scientists to write the "Science of Discworld" books. I may be bothered to check later.

Author:	Grim... [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
kalmar wrote: Remember the 2 second rule? "Only a fool believes the two second rule".

Author:	MrChris [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Anger
Grim... wrote: kalmar wrote: Remember the 2 second rule? "Only a fool believes the two second rule". I thought that was to do with the withdrawal method.