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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:20 
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Cavey wrote:
Ugh, don’t do it mate. It’s got a pretty face and it’s certainly quick, but it’s a Kia and therefore white goods in motoring terms.

Every manufacturer had to start somewhere, Cavey.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:23 
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Kia 15 years ago vs today are like night and day.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:30 
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Indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:36 
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GazChap wrote:
Cavey wrote:
Ugh, don’t do it mate. It’s got a pretty face and it’s certainly quick, but it’s a Kia and therefore white goods in motoring terms.

Every manufacturer had to start somewhere, Cavey.


Oh sure, but whereas, say, good (boring) reliable family motors at a cut price and great warranty etc. are all well and good, this is a very different proposition to producing good sports cars, surely? It's a well trodden path after all; Datsun/Nissan and Toyota etc. produced well specced, cheapo family cars for a couple of decades or more before producing anything actually worth driving as a mainstream sports car, from an enthusiasts POV, and even then had to call on third party consultancy expertise from Lotus etc. IIRC. (Honda were a bit different, granted, but they had their sports bike expertise and awesome engineers). Even Alfa Romeo, with a motoring heritage that the likes of bloody *Kia* can only dream about, have struggled for at least two decades to produce a decent sports car, or even sporting saloon - having only now *just* done so.

I've driven various perfectly worthy Kias in the last couple of years as hire cars - pretty mid-spec, well equipped type stuff but all with absolutely zero steering feel, or indeed any discernible personality whatsoever. Like I say, white goods.

It all comes back to why someone like Hearthly, not an average punter but an enthusiast and petrolhead, spends so much money on cars and changing them. That Leon he is in would keep 99% of people (and probably everyone here apart from you, me and him) very happy, but it's just never going to cut it for the likes of us. Unfortunately perhaps, most expensively certainly.

I read somewhere fairly recently that all modern RS Fords have an incredibly difficult, painful and loss-leadingly expensive gestation; one has only to think of the troubled, skittish but incredible charismatic, marmite Mk 1 RS Focus, the 'revoknuckle' Mk 2 Focus, the RS Cosworth Escort... and how few and far between they are. Even 1980s stuff like the "jellymould" Sierra Cosworth RS500 fetches £140,000 now; I seriously doubt any Kia will ever command such affection and reverence - and let alone actual REAL RS Fords like the Mk 1 and Mk 2 Escort RS1600/RS1800/RS2000. These cars are the stuff of dreams every one; Kias just aren't.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:43 
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Cavey wrote:
That Leon he is in would keep 99% of people (and probably everyone here apart from you, me and him) very happy, but it's just never going to cut it for the likes of us.


You gonna stand for that, petrolheads?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:44 
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Maybe I need to take a second look at Citroen Picassos. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:47 
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Cavey wrote:
Maybe I need to take a second look at Citroen Picassos. :D

Too much car for the likes of you, man. You couldn't handle the raw power, the sheer animal fire of the french diesel. You would cry. You would weep tears of pure engine oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:48 
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:D

At least it's not electric mate, all is not lost. :metul:

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 15:50 
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Cavey wrote:
:D

At least it's not electric mate, all is not lost. :metul:

The windows are electric.

The front two, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:04 
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Lord Humongous

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DavPaz wrote:
Cavey wrote:
That Leon he is in would keep 99% of people (and probably everyone here apart from you, me and him) very happy, but it's just never going to cut it for the likes of us.


You gonna stand for that, petrolheads?

Well as a Dieselhead all I can say about Cavey is, "Accidental Partridge".

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:08 
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Top Gear give it a rating of 6/10, which isn't bad for a first stab to be fair. :)

Quote:
...But it’s the V6 Stinger GT S that really shows off the car’s much-hyped honing, and sticks it to the likes of BMW and Audi with a genuinely entertaining chassis. It’ll do 167mph and 0-62mph in 5.1sec. But first, you’ll be wanting to choose your mode. There’s plenty…

The Stinger suffers from a phenomenon we shall call Mode Overload. Or maybe OverMode. Kia’s very proud of the five settings that control the car’s steering, ride and engine response, but the fact is there’s not a great deal of distance between them.

You’ll start in Comfort, which isn’t terribly interesting. ‘Eco’ stifles all responses in an effort to save fuel, so you might not spend much time there either. ‘Smart’ is a clever idea – it’s supposed to learn your driving style and adapt to it, but its effects are too subtle. And if you have a sporty driving style, you might as well twist the knob towards Sport, which adds fake noise, stiffer suspension and slightly heavier steering. Sport Plus keeps all of that on and switches the traction control off. Sport is the best: you put up with the gloopier steering weight to have the fizzier powertrain and tighter body control. It’s supposed to be a sports saloon right? If you want a car of this size and price that totally changes its behaviour as you cycle through modes, go check out the Mercedes-AMG C43.

Settled into Sport Mode, the Stinger sets about pleasantly surprising you. It steers accurately, and the variable ratio set-up isn’t so overly rapid that the front tyres get caught out every time you pour it into a corner. Looking at you, C43.

So, you find some corners and discover there’s a pleasant, easy-going balance to the chassis, which manages the critical trick of hiding its weight without detaching you from what’s going on at the wheels. It floats a little if you’re bounding over crests, but the suspension tidies up the movements professionally and there’s less body roll than you’d expect for such a sizeable barge. The Brembo brakes aren’t brimming with precision, but they’re abuse-absorbing, and if you’re going to hustle the Stinger, it’s reassuring to know the stoppers aren’t made from the chocolate wafers BMW M Sport discs are.

On the road, the Stinger doesn’t just hide its weight, it also shrinks its size. It feels no bigger or more cumbersome than a 4 Series. It cruises extremely quietly. And it feels quick too. The V6 is more on the Audi S4 end of the charisma scale than up there with the raucous C43, but it delivers power with a broad, stout linearity, and the eight gear ratios are chosen cleverly. Turbo lag? Not a problem.

The gearbox is less impressive. The changes, manual or automated, just aren’t that quick, and because you’re denied a true manual mode, it’ll get properly flustered if paddleshift override disagrees with its opinion of what gear to pick next. It always auto upchanges at the (fake) redline, and if you accidentally trigger the lockdown button you might as well stick the hazards on while the transmission fumbles for the shortest gear possible.


https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/kia/stinger/driving

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:38 
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Yeah if the AMG is a similar price I'm having that instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:47 
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Quote:
On the road, the Stinger doesn’t just hide its weight, it also shrinks its size.

How the fuck does it do that? Superb for parking.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:50 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Yeah if the AMG is a similar price I'm having that instead.

Merc: £47, 650 - £56,780
Kia: £31,140 – £39,240

So no, not that close.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 16:59 
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Zardoz wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Yeah if the AMG is a similar price I'm having that instead.

Merc: £47, 650 - £56,780
Kia: £31,140 – £39,240

So no, not that close.

Top Gear is talking shit then. Wouldn't be the first time.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:01 
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Zardoz wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
Yeah if the AMG is a similar price I'm having that instead.

Merc: £47, 650 - £56,780
Kia: £31,140 – £39,240

So no, not that close.


It's the Kia's price 12-18 months down the line I'll be keeping an eye on, at which point it'll still have over five years manufacturer warranty left.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:06 
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Just did a 10 sec search, according to this the Merc costs £45k and the Kia costs £40.5k.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... 17-review/

http://www.evo.co.uk/kia/stinger-gt/186 ... s-revealed

That's not really the point though of course, it was more the duff gearbox, floaty suspension, gloopy steering and fake noise, fake redline etc. mentioned, any of which would be deal breakers for me at any price, regardless of whether or not it's more or less expensive than the equivalent Merc (that's probably not up to snuff either). But that's precisely what I'm saying: these things don't matter to most people, but they *do* matter if you're massively into driving at its visceral, thrill-seeking extreme, at all costs (quite literally). Hearthly needs a car that actually ticks the correct boxes, and this Kia ain't it, any more than some dreary Golf clone isn't either.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:09 
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Kia Prides were mazdas 121 and Nissan micra.s.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:17 
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Cavey wrote:
Top Gear give it a rating of 6/10, which isn't bad for a first stab to be fair. :)


To me that sounds like just the sort of thing I'm after, effectively a more modern S4 that goes very fast in a straight line and has all the toys on it, that I'll be able to buy at 12-18 months old with a long warranty left on it, instead of 6-7 years old and with the risk of big bills at any time.

It kind of ties in with the reviews I've been reading/watching elsewhere TBH.

I've had the Type-R already, it was bonkers and fun and awesome, but it's not the type of car I want to drive every day. A Focus RS would just be a variation on that theme really.

EDIT - Price wise, the point with the Stinger GT versus equivalent Merc/BMW/Audi is (from what I've seen) that a fully loaded Stinger GT will run you a bit less than a base spec 'German equivalent', Doug DeMuro said (IIRC) that a fully loaded GT costs a bit less than a base model 540i.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:18 
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gooby pls

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Cavey wrote:
it was more the duff gearbox

I'll give you that one, that gearbox sounds proper shite.

Quote:
floaty suspension, gloopy steering and fake noise, fake redline etc.

These are all pretty much par for the course these days though, and there's no getting away from that.

I keep thinking about getting back into a car from that lovely triple-striped M division, but even they've gone down this road now (in fact, they were probably one of the first to add fake exhaust noise) - I think the E9x M3 is probably the last "proper" M-car, but it's lacking some of the creature comforts that draw me to its newer brothers.

If Hearthly is all about the visceral thrill-seeking, perhaps he should just drop the sponds on an E46 M3 CSL ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:18 
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MaliA wrote:
Kia Prides were mazdas 121

which were in themselves Ford Fiestas.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:20 
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Has anyone seen the new Fiesta in the wild yet? I saw one the other day. It's the same size as a Mk1 Focus. :S

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:27 
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Yeah, saw one. Nice looking little car, and I use little in the "in comparison to its bigger brothers" sense ;)

Cars be getting bigger, unfortunately. I honestly think in the next 5-10 years, assuming that self-drivers that can be made smaller don't really take off (no pun intended), even "superminis" will be big enough that they become challenging to park in a standard bay.

Trying to park the 5GT in a normal parking space can be a nightmare - I always reverse in now.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 17:46 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Has anyone seen the new Fiesta in the wild yet? I saw one the other day. It's the same size as a Mk1 Focus. :S


They had to increase the size to compete with the Rover 25.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 19:29 
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When I bought my Mini, I traded in the Octavia which had a private plate on it.
I'd let them know in advance that I wanted to retain the plate, and they said "No Problem. Drive up and when you arrive we can put it on retention, then do the transfer of ownership".
When I arrived I reminded them of this. "No problem, we'll put it on retention then do the transfer of ownership".

They showed me round the car I was buying, did all the handover stuff and then went to put the plate on retention, but cocked up and transferred the car into trade first. Once it had no current keeper, they couldn't put the plate on retention so they apologised, and said they'd have to wait for the paperwork to come back from the DVLA so they could register it in their name. Once that was done, they'd put the plate on retention, etc, etc.

I phoned or emailed them every week to see what was going on, and each time they assured me that this was all going to happen and there would be no problems. It's now turned out that they didn't do any of that, and instead just punted it off into trade where it went to a Vauxhall dealer and has since been sold.

They've got contact details for the new owner and have tried to ask him nicely for the number plate back but he's ignoring their calls, emails and letter so it looks like it's gone for good.

They've admitted that they were at fault, and have asked "what the best outcome for me would be, if they can't get it back".
Clueless muppets!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 19:34 
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That is absolutely shocking. I'd be incensed if I lost my private plate.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 19:40 
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I certainly don't know the legal ins and outs, but as per your agreement with the dealer, you were selling them the car without the private plate. So they've then gone ahead and sold something they never owned. It's on them to fix that, by whatever means necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 19:55 
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Absolutely. I'd be seeking legal advice at this point I reckon.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 20:24 
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Decapodian

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Yeah, I'm not best pleased, to say the least
It's TD14LEX which I liked as a long time diesel driver called Alex but putting a value on it is tricky.

On one hand there are various other 14LEX plates for sale from the DVLA for as little as £249, but none of them have interesting letters at the start.
On the other side I can see similar format cherished plates for sale for anywhere between £1-2k.
GT14LEX (which I thought about buying at the time) is £1945!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 20:49 
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Cras wrote:
I certainly don't know the legal ins and outs, but as per your agreement with the dealer, you were selling them the car without the private plate. So they've then gone ahead and sold something they never owned. It's on them to fix that, by whatever means necessary.

Unfortunately the legal stuff is basically that Zoidberg never owned the plate, DVLA do, and while it’s assigned to the vehicle it “belongs” to the vehicle.

The new owner of the car is quite within his rights to tell the dealer to jog on, or sell the plate back to them.

I imagine one way or the other this will be a costly mistake for the dealer, but Zoidberg may not get his plate back.

I had a similar situation (albeit private sale) with GAZ2598 about 10 years ago. Traded my Celica T-Sport with it on to a chap in exchange for his GT-Four and some cash, and we’d agreed via email and face to face that he’d transfer the plate back to me afterwards.

That never happened, and he stopped replying to my emails and calls. I think the plate is still on the car, too.

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