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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:06 
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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:07 
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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:11 
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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:20 
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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:45 
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Jem wrote:
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Oh, I have a job interview, too.


Good luck :)


Cheers. It ended up being yesterday at 6pm. To ve honest, I felt that it didn't get the full MaliA self aggrandisement that usually appears in situations like this. I think it was due to having been at work all day, then travellng to Hull (about an hour along M62), and travelling back. It's the next step I need, but feel a bit 'meh' over it, right now.

Still, i have my charity fundraising to do as 10 day festivals do not pay for themselves, and waiting to hear back to see ig I am on tbe board of another. Charity.

And a phone interview in 30 mins

Busy bsy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:23 
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I've just seen a video on Twitter of the Bristol police force tasering their own race relations adviser in a case of mistaken identity.

I've no doubt people will come down hard on the police for this but in the video it seems that they ask the gentleman his name because they believed he could be someone they were after and he refused to answer. Instead, tries to walk off and is just generally uncooperative.

I don't know the full ins and outs of the story but if the police approached me in the street and believed me to be someone else, I'd happily and quite easily prove who I am.

It's a tough job being in the police isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:30 
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TheVision wrote:
I've just seen a video on Twitter of the Bristol police force tasering their own race relations adviser in a case of mistaken identity.

I've no doubt people will come down hard on the police for this but in the video it seems that they ask the gentleman his name because they believed he could be someone they were after and he refused to answer. Instead, tries to walk off and is just generally uncooperative.

I don't know the full ins and outs of the story but if the police approached me in the street and believed me to be someone else, I'd happily and quite easily prove who I am.

It's a tough job being in the police isn't it?


In the guardian article that accompanies it, the chap says something about how the police didn't approach and start asking questions, they started off by accusing him outright.

I'd be defensive if someone came at me accusing me of things I hadn't done. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:32 
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Jem wrote:
In the guardian article that accompanies it, the chap says something about how the police didn't approach and start asking questions, they started off by accusing him outright.

I'd be defensive if someone came at me accusing me of things I hadn't done. :shrug:

Not surprising there are different memories of it, to be honest.

However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police. I've had a handful of interactions with the police, and came away from them all thinking the chaps concerned were gigantic bellends, but I was still "yes sir, whatever you say sir" throughout the interaction as I'm not stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:34 
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sneering elitist

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MrChris wrote:
However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police.


I think you're daft to do so. They're not your mates. If they're accusing you of something, you keep your gob shut til you're arrested and have a solicitor present.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:37 
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TheVision wrote:
I've just seen a video on Twitter of the Bristol police force tasering their own race relations adviser in a case of mistaken identity.

I've no doubt people will come down hard on the police for this but in the video it seems that they ask the gentleman his name because they believed he could be someone they were after and he refused to answer. Instead, tries to walk off and is just generally uncooperative.

I don't know the full ins and outs of the story but if the police approached me in the street and believed me to be someone else, I'd happily and quite easily prove who I am.

It's a tough job being in the police isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:38 
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Jem wrote:
MrChris wrote:
However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police.


I think you're daft to do so. They're not your mates. If they're accusing you of something, you keep your gob shut til you're arrested and have a solicitor present.

I'm not suggesting you fess up to everything as soon as they look at you, but if they say "stop walking" you bloody stop walking. And you certainly don't give them any bloody lip.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:40 
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MrChris wrote:
Jem wrote:
MrChris wrote:
However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police.


I think you're daft to do so. They're not your mates. If they're accusing you of something, you keep your gob shut til you're arrested and have a solicitor present.

I'm not suggesting you fess up to everything as soon as they look at you, but if they say "stop walking" you bloody stop walking. And you certainly don't give them any bloody lip.


No cop was ever born who isn’t a sucker for a finely-executed hi-speed Controlled Drift all the way around one of those clover-leaf freeway interchanges. Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop. Your normal speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side when he sees the big red light behind him… and then we will start apologizing begging for mercy. This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop-heart. The thing to do when you’re running along about a hundred or so and you suddenly find a red-flashing CHP-tracker on your trail what you want to do then is accelerate.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:49 
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You don't just get to taze people who are being uncooperative though, surely? Also, as I understand it, you don't have to answer police questions unless they arrest you.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:52 
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According to an ex-cop friend of ours who carried a tazer but never used it some cops are just exceptionally trigger happy with their tazers.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:53 
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Squirt wrote:
You don't just get to taze people who are being uncooperative though, surely? Also, as I understand it, you don't have to answer police questions unless they arrest you.


Yeah, that's my thinking. We obviously don't have an unbiased story of what happened, but there must surely be a big gap between 'being uncooperative' and 'taser time'.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 13:55 
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Cras wrote:
Squirt wrote:
You don't just get to taze people who are being uncooperative though, surely? Also, as I understand it, you don't have to answer police questions unless they arrest you.


Yeah, that's my thinking. We obviously don't have an unbiased story of what happened, but there must surely be a big gap between 'being uncooperative' and 'taser time'.

It's a tough job being in the police

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 14:01 
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You see! Lone wolves agrees with me and I agree with Mr Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 14:13 
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I think policeman friend said that if you shoot a taser, then it fires paper discs everywhere and you gave then to explain why you shot the taser and ylu might be in bother. He then told a story about pepoer spraying his colleague instead of a baddie but then someone else told us about thai whores.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 14:46 
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Cras wrote:
Squirt wrote:
You don't just get to taze people who are being uncooperative though, surely? Also, as I understand it, you don't have to answer police questions unless they arrest you.


Yeah, that's my thinking. We obviously don't have an unbiased story of what happened, but there must surely be a big gap between 'being uncooperative' and 'taser time'.


Here's 32 pages from the IPCC on tasers.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:25 
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Cras wrote:
Squirt wrote:
You don't just get to taze people who are being uncooperative though, surely? Also, as I understand it, you don't have to answer police questions unless they arrest you.


Yeah, that's my thinking. We obviously don't have an unbiased story of what happened, but there must surely be a big gap between 'being uncooperative' and 'taser time'.


The video - which is as close to unbiased as we're going to get at the minute, I think - shows quite clearly that he's not interested in answering their questions and wants to go home, so they tazer him. No warning.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:28 
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MrChris wrote:
Jem wrote:
MrChris wrote:
However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police.


I think you're daft to do so. They're not your mates. If they're accusing you of something, you keep your gob shut til you're arrested and have a solicitor present.

I'm not suggesting you fess up to everything as soon as they look at you, but if they say "stop walking" you bloody stop walking. And you certainly don't give them any bloody lip.


Speak for yourself. Unless I'm under arrest, or at the scene of a crime where my presence is important, I'm not just going to stand around divulging personal info to a police officer.

But then I'm white, so I have that privilege. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:28 
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I hope he sues the shit out of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:41 
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I'm sure he will which will probably lead to a massive payout for him. I can only imagine the time and manpower that will be spent on it.

Now, what if he had given his name in the first place, been polite and merely given his name in the first place? All this could probably have been avoided.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:41 
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TheVision wrote:
I'm sure he will which will probably lead to a massive payout for him. I can only imagine the time and manpower that will be spent on it.

Now, what if he had given his name in the first place, been polite and merely given his name in the first place? All this could probably have been avoided.


:facepalm:

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:44 
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TheVision wrote:
I'm sure he will which will probably lead to a massive payout for him. I can only imagine the time and manpower that will be spent on it.

Now, what if he had given his name in the first place, been polite and merely given his name in the first place? All this could probably have been avoided.

-edit noppe-

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:46 
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Jem wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I'm sure he will which will probably lead to a massive payout for him. I can only imagine the time and manpower that will be spent on it.

Now, what if he had given his name in the first place, been polite and merely given his name in the first place? All this could probably have been avoided.


:facepalm:


I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:47 
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They certainly need to give a warning that a taser is about to be deployed - even if just for the benefit of the other officers on scene. Dog-handlers for example have to disengage any dogs that they may have let loose on a subject as the last thing they'll want is for the dog to get a shock because he's biting the suspect when the taser hits.

Based on what I saw on that video, the police were in the wrong, unequivocally.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:48 
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TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?

It would, but I think the point being made here is that not doing so is not justification for having 50,000 volts slammed into you.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:50 
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TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?


But they didn't say "Excuse me sir, can I have your name?" they basically said "hey, you're that [wanted man]. tell us your name now!" (on the basis of no evidence whatsoever)

And if they were convinced enough to taser him, why would providing the name - which legally he was under no obligation to do - have changed anything? What's to say they wouldn't have just then gone on to say "we don't believe you". And then played out in exactly the same way?

If they were so convinced, why didn't they just arrest him?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:50 
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GazChap wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?

It would, but I think the point being made here is that not doing so is not justification for having 50,000 volts slammed into you.


Also that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:53 
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GazChap wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?

It would, but I think the point being made here is that not doing so is not justification for having 50,000 volts slammed into you.


Yeah, I see that point so maybe I'm looking at a different point? Just the point of being polite and answering a simple question. Anyway, I admit that I don't know any of the facts apart from what I saw it the video. I just know that I'd have given my name.


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:54 
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TheVision wrote:
GazChap wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?

It would, but I think the point being made here is that not doing so is not justification for having 50,000 volts slammed into you.


Yeah, I see that point so maybe I'm looking at a different point? Just the point of being polite and answering a simple question. Anyway, I admit that I don't know any of the facts apart from what I saw it the video. I just know that I'd have given my name.


You're too nice. :kiss:

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 15:58 
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Jem wrote:
MrChris wrote:
Jem wrote:
MrChris wrote:
However, I think you'd have to be a bit daft not to take a very compliant attitude with the police.


I think you're daft to do so. They're not your mates. If they're accusing you of something, you keep your gob shut til you're arrested and have a solicitor present.

I'm not suggesting you fess up to everything as soon as they look at you, but if they say "stop walking" you bloody stop walking. And you certainly don't give them any bloody lip.


Speak for yourself. Unless I'm under arrest, or at the scene of a crime where my presence is important, I'm not just going to stand around divulging personal info to a police officer.

You seem to be reading things I haven't written. Again, I'm not suggesting you cough your guts to a police officer (assuming they're talking to you about something you've actually done wrong - I've never had that) but as a general rule, if you're interacting with them it pays to not act like an arse. You can refuse to admit things or deny whatever you like in a manner which isn't going to fuck them off and make life worse for yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:00 
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Jem wrote:
TheVision wrote:
GazChap wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I don't get it though? If a member of the police force asked me for my name, I'd give and then ask why. It's not like you're admitting to anything by doing that and being polite at the same time? Wouldn't that have saved a lot of time and hassle?

It would, but I think the point being made here is that not doing so is not justification for having 50,000 volts slammed into you.


Yeah, I see that point so maybe I'm looking at a different point? Just the point of being polite and answering a simple question. Anyway, I admit that I don't know any of the facts apart from what I saw it the video. I just know that I'd have given my name.


You're too nice. :kiss:


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:00 
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I imagine you might have a different attitude to being stopped by the police if you have been stopped by them repeatedly, or know people who have been stopped by them repeatedly, just because you are black. If that was the case, you may be less likely to co-operate. You may be more likely because you don't want to cause any trouble, but you might have had enough, and it appears that they did stop the wrong person this time, and he doesn't legally have to give his name (unles he is under arrest). Yes it is tough being in the police, but equally I think they should be held to a higher standard than members of the public, as it's their job to police us, so they should be beyond reproach, if they are not then their needs to be consequences...

But yeah, on the evidence we have the guy being arrested was being unhelpful, not violent, no one was being threatened or in danger, so they should not have used the tasers, the unedited police body cams should show a bit more, as the footage I saw seemed to have sections missing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:13 
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Imagine if he'd been on a bike as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:40 
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MrChris wrote:
You seem to be reading things I haven't written. Again, I'm not suggesting you cough your guts to a police officer (assuming they're talking to you about something you've actually done wrong - I've never had that) but as a general rule, if you're interacting with them it pays to not act like an arse. You can refuse to admit things or deny whatever you like in a manner which isn't going to fuck them off and make life worse for yourself.


He said "I'm not telling you my name" and "I've done no wrong" and started to walk away.

The police continued to coral him in another direction, threatening arrest (but not giving any reason other than his refusal to state his name).

We have a very different idea of "acting like an arse", or you've seen different footage to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:41 
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They thought he was someone else, didn't they?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:45 
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Jem wrote:
The police continued to coral him in another direction, threatening arrest (but not giving any reason other than his refusal to state his name).


You must have been watching a different video to me then as he clearly said he thought looked like a suspect.

Quote:
"So I'll have no choice to arrest you"
"Why then"
"Because we believe you are [bleeped name] who is wanted I think. You're not willing to tell us your name."


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:49 
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Satsuma wrote:
Jem wrote:
The police continued to coral him in another direction, threatening arrest (but not giving any reason other than his refusal to state his name).


You must have been watching a different video to me then as he clearly said he thought looked like a suspect.

Quote:
"So I'll have no choice to arrest you"
"Why then"
"Because we believe you are [bleeped name] who is wanted I think. You're not willing to tell us your name."


...on the basis of not telling them his name!

Which IMO is a stupid fucking question anyway - had it BEEN [wanted man], what's to stop him making up a name? Would the officer have said "oh, ok, go about your business sir"?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:51 
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Jem wrote:
Satsuma wrote:
Jem wrote:
The police continued to coral him in another direction, threatening arrest (but not giving any reason other than his refusal to state his name).


You must have been watching a different video to me then as he clearly said he thought looked like a suspect.

Quote:
"So I'll have no choice to arrest you"
"Why then"
"Because we believe you are [bleeped name] who is wanted I think. You're not willing to tell us your name."


...on the basis of not telling them his name!

Which IMO is a stupid fucking question anyway - had it BEEN [wanted man], what's to stop him making up a name? Would the officer have said "oh, ok, go about your business sir"?


"You look like serial rapist Satsuma Johnson."
"No im not!"
"Got any ID"
"Yeah, here's my ID in my pocket"
"Oh ok. Sorry to trouble you"


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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:52 
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Gogmagog

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Presumably, they would ask for a way of confirming his name to clear the matter up?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:53 
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Satsuma wrote:
"You look like serial rapist Satsuma Johnson."
"No im not!"
"Got any ID"
"Yeah, here's my ID in my pocket"
"Oh ok. Sorry to trouble you"


How about "Excuse me sir, I'm making enquiries into the investigation of X. Would you mind answering a couple of questions?" or any degree of courtesy to a man who is - until proven otherwise - completely fucking innocent.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:54 
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sneering elitist

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MaliA wrote:
Presumably, they would ask for a way of confirming his name to clear the matter up?


I don't always carry ID. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:57 
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MrChris wrote:
You seem to be reading things I haven't written. Again, I'm not suggesting you cough your guts to a police officer (assuming they're talking to you about something you've actually done wrong - I've never had that) but as a general rule, if you're interacting with them it pays to not act like an arse. You can refuse to admit things or deny whatever you like in a manner which isn't going to fuck them off and make life worse for yourself.


I mean, sure - but 'acting like an arse' is surely an unacceptable justification for use of a taser?

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:57 
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So much whiteness in this thread. Malc has it right, and he should know better than most.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:58 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Jem wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Presumably, they would ask for a way of confirming his name to clear the matter up?


I don't always carry ID. :shrug:


But you probably wouldn't want to be identified as a Naughty Person, as that would mean a detention until it was sorted, so you'd be inclined to prove otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 16:58 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Cras wrote:
MrChris wrote:
You seem to be reading things I haven't written. Again, I'm not suggesting you cough your guts to a police officer (assuming they're talking to you about something you've actually done wrong - I've never had that) but as a general rule, if you're interacting with them it pays to not act like an arse. You can refuse to admit things or deny whatever you like in a manner which isn't going to fuck them off and make life worse for yourself.


I mean, sure - but 'acting like an arse' is surely an unacceptable justification for use of a taser?


No, i see loads of people, hourly, i would tase.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 17:01 
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sneering elitist

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MaliA wrote:
Jem wrote:
MaliA wrote:
Presumably, they would ask for a way of confirming his name to clear the matter up?


I don't always carry ID. :shrug:


But you probably wouldn't want to be identified as a Naughty Person, as that would mean a detention until it was sorted, so you'd be inclined to prove otherwise.


Not really. It's the police's job to prove I'm Naughty Person before arresting me, not my job to prove I'm not.

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 Post subject: Re: Bits and Bobs 47
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 17:02 
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Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14353
Cras wrote:
I mean, sure - but 'acting like an arse' is surely an unacceptable justification for use of a taser?


I doubt anyone would reasonably suggest that the taser was justified. Especially since he got little warning (although he does say something like "Your Sergeant is going to taser me for no reason) and gets tasered IN HIS FUCKING FACE!


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